This got my blood boiling and my brain to explode (almost)!

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toorski

toorski

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That said, China comprises a fascist government with less stability. Things can go ugly with them, and I think they will sooner than later (look at the unrest in Hong Kong). When that happens overseas companies so heavily vested in Chinese production will be hung out to dry. They'll either rebuild or the tables will turn demoting first world countries to third world ones.
You are too harsh about China. I know personally enough Chinese ex-pats, current citizens and their culture along with their work ethics that I have nothing against. They’re not trying to kill or eat anyone, at least not yet. From what I know, Chinese are hard working, able to learn howto, copy others and then improve on how and what they make, as the rest in the Global Business Markets. China’s business sector plays global games, just like US, Japan, Germany, France, Russia ...etc. But, China has a different culture and political system that may not agree with other players. Tho, the others play similar games under different names and in different style. The bottom line is that money, greed, power, laws and crime have no language barriers, national boundaries, political preference or shame – some places are worse, or much worse, than others. USA is my home, for better or worse, which is much better than many other places. Tho, we would be better off here if Apple used screws Made in USA for their POS Mac-Pro :)
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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Missed my chance to get in on the first talk of China industry. Lay me say, a little belated, China is like the wild West of industry right now, little regulation and cheap labor. They're profiting hugely and not by chance, there's some shrewd political maneuvering behind it as well. They have the money and ownership of industry to be of great influence in the world economy. It's actually pretty scary.

That said, China comprises a fascist government with less stability. Things can go ugly with them, and I think they will sooner than later (look at the unrest in Hong Kong). When that happens overseas companies so heavily vested in Chinese production will be hung out to dry. They'll either rebuild or the tables will turn demoting first world countries to third world ones.
maybe yeah.

there is pollution in China, likely more regulations in next years. this can slow down China, quite a lot.

However, the big difference with EU and US, the Chinese industry is maintained, governed to specific directions, which makes China much stronger. Similar was in Mongolia. Education is important, the knowledge is first important for Chinese gov, rather than or next to industry. In US, industry goes first and then, maybe, .. philosophy at last. Sustainability.
 

hitest

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For students, there is nothing better than learning opensource software.
You may give at your home an Unix machine, BSD or even Linux.
Bring it KDE if you would like or think good, there is a cool desktop and it is libre.
Thanks for the reply. Oh believe me I've tried to spark an interest in open source software with my two children. At my house I run a collection of Linux and BSD machines, and one Win 10 Pro laptop. They're not interested in open source software; they prefer proprietary software. It is what it is.
 

Spartrekus

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Thanks for the reply. Oh believe me I've tried to spark an interest in open source software with my two children. At my house I run a collection of Linux and BSD machines, and one Win 10 Pro laptop. They're not interested in open source software; they prefer proprietary software. It is what it is.
Win and Apple, we teach them to smoke and to be dependent. Once they smoke, they will not go back to non smoking. it is over after the first cigarette.

If you start a first use of PC, then, it is already won. If you have machines with Windows or Apple, it is over for opensource, libre outstanding Unix software.
 
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OJ

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Win and Apple, we learn them to smoke. Once they smoke, they will not go back to non smoking. it is over after the first cigarette.

If you start a first use of PC, then, it is already won. If you have machines with Windows or Apple, it is over for opensource, libre outstanding Unix software.
I wouldn't go that far, because there is nothing naturally addicting to MS-Windows and Apple products. The kids have to be taught the things like new and shiny and commercial is something to like. I wasn't like that as a kid. I didn't generally want new things and I didn't like plastic and commercial stuff. But then perhaps I was just stupid. ;) Or my parents showed me a different way. ... dunno. :(

hitest Bottom line is that it's not easy to be a parent (been there, done that) - especially with TV and other malicious advertising around.
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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I wouldn't go that far, because there is nothing naturally addicting to MS-Windows and Apple products. The kids have to be taught the things like new and shiny and commercial is something to like. I wasn't like that as a kid. I didn't generally want new things and I didn't like plastic and commercial stuff. But then perhaps I was just stupid. ;) Or my parents showed me a different way. ... dunno. :(

hitest Bottom line is that it's not easy to be a parent (been there, done that) - especially with TV and other malicious advertising around.
It is far easier to find cool and simple to use Office, rather than learning the TeX language.

OJ:
Likely this happened first, you discovered Word, and all possibilities with it at the time.
6662
 

rigoletto@

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The biggest advantage in producing in China these days is their logistics. If you need some custom "screws" you just need to get to the prefecture (or how they call it), then they you will point you to all "screw" industries in the city. You just need to literally knock their door, specify the desired quality, and do the order. If they need to hire 1000 people overnight, they can do it and they will.

Now, first of all, you can't hire people overnight in probably all western countries, this is illegal. Second, try to order custom "screws" and will see yourself in deep pile of bureaucracy of regulations, obligatory tests and so on.
 

Phishfry

Son of Beastie

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The skill here is just incredible,” Mr. Cook said in China
So your taking people from rural China slapping them in a factory for $2/hr. and saying these are skilled tech workers?
Yea right. Chain them to their machine and make children work 12 hour shifts. Lock all exits in case of fire.
It's all for the glorious leader.
Human slavery is making your $6000 Apple.
Signed American Laborer.
Complete with our pesky safety regulations including no children in factories.
In the U.S., you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I’m not sure we could fill the room,” Cook said.
This guy has been sniffing his own farts too long

I have actually attended the Machine Tool Show in Chicago. It is the worlds preeminent machine tool show.
Not only can you fill a room with the tooling engineers. You can fill McCormick Center. A huge convention center.
100,000 attendees. Probably more than half of them tooling engineers.

What Mr. Cook did was slam US Manufacturing worse than any communist ever could. Bald face lying to the press.
I would not feed that dude a penny of my money. He is an corporate extortionist. The epitome of greed.
 

Trihexagonal

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The kids have to be taught the things like new and shiny and commercial is something to like. I wasn't like that as a kid. I didn't generally want new things and I didn't like plastic and commercial stuff. But then perhaps I was just stupid. ;) Or my parents showed me a different way. ... dunno. :(
When I was a wee lad plastic items were consider cheap in quality, as was anything made in Japan or China. New and shiny doesn't capture my attention. If it's old and still works to my satisfaction it's probably good enough for me.

If you start a first use of PC, then, it is already won. If you have machines with Windows or Apple, it is over for opensource, libre outstanding Unix software.
The first computer I used was an Apple II. My niece gave me a mid-2007 Mac Mini last year I have no interest whatsoever in and would rather have had an Apple II.

The first PC I owned ran Win98. I liked Vista best but was fascinated by all the Live CD's of Linux. I tried a lot of them but was done looking when I discovered a FreeBSD variant with a pre-installed desktop.

I had tried out FreeBSD while I was using Win98 but the installer looked too complicated for my skillset at the time. Once I found something that got me to the desktop I looked under the hood to see how it worked and taught myself to use it as FreeBSD. I still remember the thrill I got the first time I installed FreeBSD from scratch.

There is only one person I've ever met personally who has used Linux. He knew knew what BSD meant too and lives in my building. He said he's been out of the loop for 6 years and if it works out plan on teaching him BSD and bringing him up to date.

Everyone else I know uses Windows. One person asked what version of Windows I used like it was the only game in town. My sister works at a computer all day and will admit FreeBSD is too complicated for her.
 
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rigoletto@

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So your taking people from rural China slapping them in a factory for $2/hr. and saying these are skilled tech workers?
Yea right. Chain them to their machine and make children work 12 hour shifts. Lock all exits in case of fire.
It's all for the glorious leader.
Human slavery is making your $6000 Apple.
Signed American Laborer.
Complete with our pesky safety regulations including no children in factories.

This guy has been sniffing his own farts too long
We have a huge industry of electric motors in my country which opened a facility in China in the beggining of this movement, they are still in there but with more facilities now.

They always paid decent wages in there, and countless times they got their good Chinese workers and put them to do the very best courses available in their specific area, fully paid by the company, whether that would be (USA, Europe, you name it) because they wanted to have some Chinese in higher positions in the company.

All of them, 100% of them, did all the courses and when finished, usually next day they come back to work, they gave a huge middle finger to the company and move on to another which offered the exactly same package he/she was receiving plus 10 bucks. Doesn't matter how much that package was about. That happened with people earning US$5000-15000 monthly too, just for 10 bucks more.

At some point they realized they can't trust those people at all, and changed to the full Chinese model: draining everything they can from every single employee, no Chinese is allowed in any position above middle management, and now everyone is happy and everything works.

They don't give a down, they want money and every cent count.

[EDIT]

We need to make a very clear distinction when we talk about Chinese: Hong Kong and Mainland (IDK too much about Taiwan).

Hong Kong people are very fine ones, the mainland Chinese...
 

Phishfry

Son of Beastie

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Locking the emergency doors might be more like Bangladesh but it happened in the US too in the '80's.
I really hate seeing kids having to work at 15. I did it but it was newspaper routes and summer farming.
Not 12 hour factory work very far from home. Kids should be in school.
 

Phishfry

Son of Beastie

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I too have no grief with any Chinese person. It is the people who hide Tienanmen Square from their populous who I despise.
Brainwashers who grant themselves power for however long they desire.
I really thought after Gorby tore down the wall that we would have peace.
Nope, now its economic warfare. Buy their debt and sell them shiploads of cheap stuff. That is the new paradigm.
 

fernandel

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"History repeats itself because no one was listening the first time."
Anonymous
 

rigoletto@

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Quite unlikely, we have weird things being sold in the street at night but never heard of anything ever close of that. Leave alone being used in restaurants and hotels; however we have tons of restaurants/cafes owned and runned by Chinese too.
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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I wouldn't go that far, because there is nothing naturally addicting to MS-Windows and Apple products. The kids have to be taught the things like new and shiny and commercial is something to like. I wasn't like that as a kid. I didn't generally want new things and I didn't like plastic and commercial stuff. But then perhaps I was just stupid. ;) Or my parents showed me a different way. ... dunno. :(
Kids take the happy meal at mac do because there is a toy.

Kids will usually take all the sweets, given in a shop. The best marketing is when kids are below 8 years old or about 10 y. old.

Later, they will use the clouds given for free by microsoft, apple, google,... and free close-source softwares preinstalled, like Microsoft Office,.... nothing to pay, it is free. facebook is free too. You just give free access to your steps, to your life style, your pictures, your videos, your tex or word documents, your data, your contacts, your messages, your emails,.... only this.

Education matters sure, but after 18 years old or 20 y. they will master their life and take the direction they want.

Ah really, what you prefer, to lay on the sunny beach and do nothing
versus
learning 10'000 millions pages to master karate ?
 

Phishfry

Son of Beastie

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I do owe the Swiss an apology.
I made it sound like the "Screw Machine" is uniquely American when infact we just copied Swiss designs.
My grandfather would have called them Swiss machines. They Swiss were known in their watchmaking and thus tiny screws.

 

CraigHB

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So your taking people from rural China slapping them in a factory for $2/hr. and saying these are skilled tech workers? Yea right. Chain them to their machine and make children work 12 hour shifts. Lock all exits in case of fire.
Capitalism always seeks out those cheap labor markets. That's the kind of thing that makes them cheap. You never get skilled workers that way. They get trained on the job. I think that's a pretty obvious lie on the author's part. Unfortunately, it seems you only have to publish something on the net these days and people will believe it.

People get fired up in the US when you start talking about socialism or communism, but our economic system is not without fault. It takes advantage of these cheap labor markets with human cost.
 

fernandel

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I do owe the Swiss an apology.
I made it sound like the "Screw Machine" is uniquely American when infact we just copied Swiss designs.
My grandfather would have called them Swiss machines. They Swiss were known in their watchmaking and thus tiny screws.

Looks are not just Asian countries 'copy' from the others...
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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Looks are not just Asian countries 'copy' from the others...
Copying is something just human.
... since ages in our human history.

Copying means also ability to understand how it works and to make it. It is a great method for learning basics, and then freely create new things.
 

CraigHB

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The difference is that culturally in the US (and other developed countries) it's bad to copy others' work and is generally considered plagiarism. This is not the case in Asian countries, it's actually encouraged. The idea is to copy from the masters to become a master. We see it as bad, they see nothing wrong with it even though they may be using intellectual property they're not entitled to. It easily extends to reverse engineering and even downright industrial espionage.
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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The difference is that culturally in the US (and other developed countries) it's bad to copy others' work and is generally considered plagiarism. This is not the case in Asian countries, it's actually encouraged. The idea is to copy from the masters to become a master. We see it as bad, they see nothing wrong with it even though they may be using intellectual property they're not entitled to. It easily extends to reverse engineering and even downright industrial espionage.
From which philosophy is this image to become master coming from?
 

CraigHB

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Some time ago I watched a video of a couple guys that documented their move to the China industrial district from the UK and talked about the cultural differences after living there for some time. That's a quote from something they said about the culture there, unfortunately I'd be hard pressed to find the video, it was on YouTube. The guys seemed quite credible.
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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Some time ago I watched a video of a couple guys that documented their move to the China industrial district from the UK and talked about the cultural differences after living there for some time. That's a quote from something they said about the culture there, unfortunately I'd be hard pressed to find the video, it was on YouTube. The guys seemed quite credible.
the culture in china compared to us or eu is quite different.
there are also lot of differences, e.g. money, within the society ; larger gap - money and lifestyle.
 
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