systemD is coming to a port near you!

Zirias

Son of Beastie

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Jose I guess what I want to say is: DON'T GET THE FUCK IN MY WAY with your STUPID DSL. Your DSL (talking to "systemd" here) is, well, "domain specific". That means anything the designer of that DSL didn't have in mind, WON'T WORK. (Let alone having to learn yet another language, which is a PITA in itself)

Yep, I assumed setting permissions on a dir, so a daemon can store its pidfile there, is something that was considered. I'm pretty sure some other edge cases weren't. There are countless! :rolleyes:

Bourne shell, OTOH, is a general-purpose (turing-complete) programming language. Writing init-scripts in bourne shell has its challenges. But given an awesome framework like mewburn rc (which IIRC was developed for NetBSD, but is used in FreeBSD) makes it a piece of cake. Of course, assuming you know shell scripting. But hey, who doesn't?
 

macondo

Active Member

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bobo@foo:~ $ sudo pkg delete pulseaudio
Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting)
Deinstallation has been requested for the following 3 packages (of 0 packages in the universe):

Installed packages to be REMOVED:
alsa-plugins: 1.2.2_1
alsa-utils: 1.2.2
pulseaudio: 14.2

Number of packages to be removed: 3

The operation will free 9 MiB.

Proceed with deinstalling packages? [y/N]:


I'm an alsa user, whatever Pottering is selling I don't want it: pulseaudio, systemd, whatever...
 

Zirias

Son of Beastie

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C'mon now, DSLs are the future! Why are you stuck in the past?
I know this is more sarcasm 😈, still I'll give a serious reply:

I'm not against DSLs in general. If your domain is well-understood and complete, they make sense. I just doubt "system startup" is such a domain with clear-cut boundaries. IMHO, you need a general-purpose language for that.

And again, a good framework can offer most of the advantages of a DSL, without imposing restrictions.
 

Jose

Daemon

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Yes, that was sarcasm. I love to dig up fossilized hype from bygone days. Back in 2005 Ruby on Rails was the answer to every question. Its build tool, Rake, was a wonder of this new DSL programming approach. It was the future, you know. I wonder how many people are still struggling to migrate away from flaky and slow monolithic Rails apps that are killing their business.

One of the ironies of Systemd is how late it is to the party. They're trying to dominate the desktop in a time when the desktop doesn't matter. They're even resurrecting the hype from the good old days of the desktop.
 

grahamperrin

Son of Beastie

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stuff which systemd does … system-homed


 

Zirias

Son of Beastie

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One of the ironies of Systemd is how late it is to the party. They're trying to dominate the desktop in a time when the desktop doesn't matter. They're even resurrecting the hype from the good old days of the desktop.
Hm yeah, that's a way to look at it ;). I'm still a user of a "classic" desktop, and I know one area where they're still very relevant: offices. Not only, but also for software developers. OTOH, almost any office will use Windows as their Desktop OS, so, still pointless. The "killer app" is MS Excel. :rolleyes:
 

mrbeastie0x19

Active Member

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Returning to the original subject line, it's not universally inevitable:
Debian now has an option to install sysvinit via netinstall, it removes systemd
 

Jose

Daemon

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Actual message at work this morning "Systemd fails to start (needed logging process) 1% of the time..." If you think 1% is low, multiply times several hundred instances and imagine what happens if they produce no logs at all.
 

Jose

Daemon

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This is the original: https://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html?view=mosaic&m=1

Avoids having to visit that agenda driven, activist site.
Looking for a problem with

And I really can't find one. No problems here

Or here

So I really don't see the problem with

But don't let me get in your way if you really would rather support Google and a platform that's hostile to its content creators.
 

cynwulf

Member

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I don't support the platform - you'd need to take that up with the blog author - they chose it. It happens to be the original source. He's an agreeable enough type and might consider moving it, if you could point to alternatives?

Regarding the activist site - do some more reading if you have any desire to investigate further. I won't comment on that.
 

hardworkingnewbie

Well-Known Member

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Canonical, the makers of Ubuntu, are right now working on including it to its WSL images, because many software didn't startup really well without it and Microsoft so far used an own, small stub INIT system. Also many users are relying on documentation with systemd userland tools as well.

 

baaz

Member

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I would not worry about it, systemd will never happen in BSD world. BSD doesn't have any need for it.

EDIT:
Reminder that systemd has over 1.2 million lines of code, BSD world could develop something with drastically less code to suit its use.
if needed I think BSDs don't need to develop anything runit with at most 1000 lines of code exists! (with bsd license :‌D)
 
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