Recommend Establishing Dedicated Working Group for External Contributions

That's to get control over the vast majority of open source.
Yes and no.
What they got was access to all the repos and the right to scan it all for their AI stuff. The important part is not only the source, but also the commits made and what the commit message says. Things like "fixes string buffer overrun" or something, the LLM can make the connection between the change and the reason. That extra dimension, the timeline and the "why" is what they bought.
 
If additional "attention" is needed, it's a severe failure.
Interesting remark.
and if it gets further ignored it is a symptom of management failure.
Another interesting moment.
That's one step of systematical problem-solving - a core discipline of sophisticated engineering.
An interesting "systematic" (systemic) remark.
I agree with Sir Dice that this forum is not a sensible place for a discussion of the development process. There are a few developers here, but most people here are users, with no influence on the process.
A confirming remark that users do not do this.

Since FreeBSD (from the point of view of a user like me) is much easier to understand and manage
than Linux, then perhaps today we need to approve the concept of "simplicity" literally in everything:
in management, in man-hours, etc.
A complex control system is also a potential source of problems and failures.
We need to narrow the perimeter: it is not necessary (as Maturin noted here) to support a variety of devices.
("If FreeBSD will not soon [support all WiFi/Bluetooth/GPUs/my most exotic multimedia gaming equipment] at once, it's dead")
---
The author of the topic (ykla) was simply boiling over.
That is, he was brought to a boil by quite serious motivations.
 
That's unlikely what they were trying to express. As a software engineer role, I would recommend putting "Git" on there as priority of the core VCS technology.
A decade ago, the company I worked at used to waste well around 30~50% of it's software engineering effort (as in time) with fulfilling conformity requirements, i.e. CI/CD engineering, ticket tracking, code reviewing, ... .

Now we use GitLab, and the time required to comply to conformity agreements is down to around 10% of our work time, because GitLab can be configured to automate and auto-validate almost everything related to compliance, modular CI/CD pipeline modules allow unmodified reuse of already written pipeline code in other projects rather then the jenkins pipeline copy-paste mania we had before. So basically, learning about and starting to use GitLab increased our efficiency by 50~100% depending on project. Sounds like a commercial, doesn't it?

We're not a large company, but the remaining 10% of software developers' time invested into compliance still consists of a developer being dedicated to it, while all the other developers still end up wasting time doing minor and boring tasks every now and then. If we were larger the number of dedicated gitlabbers would likely converge, making the saving / efficiency gain even higher.

In my opinion, being capable of doing the advanced Github/GitLab/Azure DevOps stuff is certainly more worthy of a CV entry then the ability to use the git command line, where most "advanced" stuff is needed only when the development process doesn't abide standards. Of cause, libgit2 experience and the likes might be worth a record, but I'd be explicit with it rather then writing "git".

Some may remember: In the late 1990s, early 2000s Microsoft was attacking OpenSource, if not trying to destroy but at least stifle, and badmouth it, above all Linux. They were really afraid to lose serious amounts of customers if Linux actually became the success the Linux community stated their project with trombones in public.
Now they are completely relaxed. In contrary they cooperate. They learned: There is no danger. Linux is nothing a common computer user ever touches freely. Besides Linux is a playground for some few computer nerds it settles market niches Microsoft don't need to care about. Plus once in a while something useful drops out of there. So they not engage it anymore. They support it. Among other things with GitHub.
For the OpenSource (Linux) community it's perfect (bait was a conspiracy theory): A powerful, professional maintainded central hub where all open source projects may live. For free.
I disagree. Their target market changed and we no longer are competitors. In fact, we're allies these days.

What Microsoft has and wants to keep, is the mainline ecosystem, in, especially, but not limited to, office applications. We aren't competitive there, FreeBSD doesn't have a primary desktop environment, the probably most competitive office suite we have is libreOffice, but there might be people contesting other office suites are better, and with the userbase being fragmented over "trivialities", you won't find commercial support for libreOffice usage on FreeBSD any soon. Which means FreeBSD will not be able to compete with MS in the Office target market where no large move is done towards software that doesn't have support deals.

The future (and present) of Microsoft Office is it's cloud hosted variant, i.e. Office365. Microsoft's customers don't need Windows any more. Nor do they need IBM/Lenovo compatible PC hardware. Whatever can run a "decent" web browser can now run Office 365, including FreeBSD. In contrary to the past, Microsoft is now interested in both the Web Browser running on FreeBSD and other OSS operating systems, as well as in the web browser being capable of running Office365. For that matter, Microsoft and the OSS community are perfectly pulling the same coord. The OSS community doesn't need to use Microsoft's Office365, if their contributions positively affect the browser's ability to use MS Office, MS will profit from it, while the OSS community will profit by MS contributing into OSS, as any fix in office will fix many other "websites", too.

But then, Microsoft also offers other products that we're more inclined to consider being competitive against, namely their email server and their web server. Anyone that maintains postfix on FreeBSD will tell you it's a nightmare with no end in sight, while anyone that maintains Exchange on Windows Server will tell you it's a nightmare with no end in sight. We're talking a the same language here. Apache and Lighttpd are used in such a mainstream-able fashion that we can deploy them to work almost out of the box, while IIS usage is just as streamlined and it can therefore be deployed to work almost out of the box.
Despite this being a field we can challenge Microsoft in, Microsoft has a "little" advantage we don't have: We and they can equally deploy a webserver that works almost out of the box, but against a little fee, Microsoft can deploy it to work completely out of the box: They sell you a pre-configured, globally accessable IIS deployment via their Azure Cloud Platform. Against another little fee, they make sure it's availability is > 99.99%.
But what with the stubborn FreeBSD evangelist that just doesn't want IIS or Windows Server, and insists on running Apache on FreeBSD? Well, they're realistic and won't bother trying to sell him a Windows Server License or an IIS License since he's convinced he wants FreeBSD hosting Apache to begin with. But, just like with the full Microsoft solution, against a little fee, via their Azure Cloud Platform service, they can offer a FreeBSD cloud instance, it won't come with preinstalled Apache but the evangelist probably prefers to install and maintain it himself anyways. And against a another little fee, they make sure it's availability is > 99.99%.

There is, of cause, the option to host the FreeBSD instance on the box you have at home, get a second uplink to overcome your ISP connectivity issues, configure dyndns and redundand connection fallback, get an UPS to be less affected by powergrid problems (unreliable voltage levels in the first place, as a real outage is going to flip off your ISP's hardware, so your services won't be available even if your box remains powered up) and host your FreeBSD instance yourself. Anyone who does that will tell you that if all you want to serve is a few vintage services, you will not even remotely be able to host it yourself at a competitive cost. So TCOO favors the cloud unless you have something really big, i.e. you need to buy a whole rack worth of cloud systems, in which case owning and operating the rack, and your connectivity issue mitigations, will become less expensive on the long run, but most individuals and SOHO don't host rackloads of services.
So, the unbiased FreeBSD user goes out and looks for cloud deals, he discovers Microsoft Azure, reads some documentation on it, sets up his Azure FreeBSD instance and is happy, but he also discovers Microsoft's competitors, which for his single VM deployment is simpler to setup, and not just that, it's also less expensive on top, so he decides on ....?

This is where Microsoft's grip on the ecosystem comes into play, and github is a part of that. Just like you cannot host your small scale stuff competitively against any cloud provider, you cannot setup a development collaboration software that competes with GitHub. GitHub offers you a lot of features that most developers will very likely want to use, as do Azure Devops or GitLab. All three have premium features that are only available against payment, but the free stuff is quite vast on either of them. If your decision was to go with Azure Devops, you'll already be familiar with Azure at the point you start looking for Cloud Services to host your Apache/FreeBSD VM, biasing the decision towards Microsoft's service. If decide on GitHub instead, you might start using codespaces, i.e. the cloud version of devel/vscode, but unlike your local instance, you can run it from anywhere which is especially important if the setup is nasty or you work mobile, e.g. while riding a train, and you will discover that there's open source plugin X that is awesome but it doesn't work in your home computer's FreeBSD hosted vscode, most likely because there's some platform specific code that doesn't work or doesn't exist for FreeBSD, and, if Microsoft is lucky, you will port that plugin onto FreeBSD, announce having ported it onto FreeBSD on reddit, twitter, mailing lists and whatnot, thereby adverticing GitHub Codespaces and Microsoft's IDE (and FreeBSD). Maybe you don't contribute in any way they can make a profit out of, but even then you might post a link to github somewhere that is out of reach to them, thereby promoting the github service again. You didn't buy github premium features, as maybe someone you influence will. Further, if you're familiar enough with GitHub, and you ever get into making the decision between GitHub vs Azure develops vs GitLab for an enterprise, you'll likely bias to GitHub.

I highly doubt Microsoft will take down github or limit the freely available featureson it, as it generates them a huge stream of potential premium feature users, especially with their Codespaces and AI quickly depleting the free quotas. The cost of the github service or the free runners is neglectible to the promotional effect they gain by keeping it going. It also improves Microsofts image, especially against "greedy" Oracle and Amazon.


In this thread, there also seems to be an allergy against account creation. If you have a github account, and stumble over Azure Cloud, it can log in using GitHub's single sign on. This might put a bias towards Microsoft Azure Cloud again, as no new credentials need to be created. Some of Microsoft's Cloud Hoster competition allow GitHub SSO, but most don't, and the account creation allergy will bias the decision towards Microsoft or their "buddies". Again, their "buddies" aren't paying microsoft to allow their SSO, but a lot of their customers making use of it sends their management the message that offering Microsoft Services will be rewarded by their customers, and this message might well contribute to them paying quite a bit to Microsoft in the future.


My github account, btw, was made in order to contribute back some patches I wrote for www/otter-browser, as the FreeBSD port maintainance code of conduct back in the day asked us to provide our patches to upstream whenever possible.
 
In my opinion, being capable of doing the advanced Github/GitLab/Azure DevOps stuff is certainly more worthy of a CV entry then the ability to use the git command line, where most "advanced" stuff is needed only when the development process doesn't abide standards. Of cause, libgit2 experience and the likes might be worth a record, but I'd be explicit with it rather then writing "git".
Candidates should certainly include their experience along with Jira / Asana. But no, not by categorizing it alongside Perforce, SVN and other VCS they use. It undermines trust that they have an understanding what Git even is. VCS is a very specific part of devops. Fiddling with the GitHub website does not mean that they understand how to use Git.
 
Microsoft is the core and main reason for OpenSource as we have today.
Open source is older than Microsoft's market dominance. I was using "open source" software in the early 80s and late 80s, when Microsoft was a little boutique niche maker of interpreters and compilers for microcomputers.

That's to get control over the vast majority of open source.
Owning the platform on which that open source software is being copied around does not give Microsoft any control over it. Much less the ability to make it their own and invalidate licenses.

Until then, if anything useful to Microsoft appears on GitHub, they can pick it.
They don't need GitHub for that. It's open source, they can read it, and use it. If someone who develops software doesn't want Microsoft to use it, they should not open source it.
 
Yes and no.
What they got was access to all the repos and the right to scan it all for their AI stuff. The important part is not only the source, but also the commits made and what the commit message says. Things like "fixes string buffer overrun" or something, the LLM can make the connection between the change and the reason. That extra dimension, the timeline and the "why" is what they bought.
They could do that before too; when you clone a git repo, you get that information. That's the whole point of git, that it doesn't need a central server, and that every copy of the repo has everything it needs.
 
They could do that before too; when you clone a git repo, you get that information. That's the whole point of git, that it doesn't need a central server, and that every copy of the repo has everything it needs.
The licence (GPL, mostly) covers the code, not the timeline. Lawyers will most likely say "That's an interesting question", which means they will charge you an arm and a leg and still have no definite answer. Owning the servers makes it much easier, also I would check the licence agreement one had to tick off when gitlab was sold.
 
This is where Microsoft's grip on the ecosystem comes into play,
Grip on the ecosystem?

Windows has a large fraction of the desktop market (about 70-80%), but not a dominating position. But they don't make much money off it, and they are easily replaceable. They have a near-zero market share of the much more important handheld market.

In the cloud market, they are solidly #2, and unless something really big happens, they have no chance of becoming #1, because Amazon is so entrenched. The cloud #3 (Google) is nipping at Microsoft's heels, and because Google is so well funded from their other business, they are undermining Azure's profitability.

In the *PAID* application market (meaning Office), Microsoft is actually by far the #1, and they make a lot of good money from that: Lots of Office365 subscriptions. The only problem is that their competition is free stuff: You can do much of the same with for example Google docs. According to some statistics, the free alternatives are actually used much more than Office365, but that's to a large extent because they're free. Microsoft is one major misstep away from losing all their profits in this market.

I see Microsoft as not being a monopolist (any longer), nor in a dominant position, nor having a grip on anything. They are a serious competitor who builds good products; I'm actually a (very small) customer of theirs, using Azure for my remote storage (I also use other services, for example my remote VM is hosted on Google cloud).
 
Yes and no.
What they got was access to all the repos and the right to scan it all for their AI stuff. The important part is not only the source, but also the commits made and what the commit message says. Things like "fixes string buffer overrun" or something, the LLM can make the connection between the change and the reason. That extra dimension, the timeline and the "why" is what they bought.
A Copilot database. ;)
 
I'd like to see an alternative to FreeDesktop.org which is collaborated on by all BSD's, and other OS's on a C portable and BSD way. FreeDesktop.org actually works well, but software needs to be better tailored to the BSD's and OS's which can use standardized simplicity. There's a lack of contributors on FreeBSD, which is why the collective BSD community is needed, with repositories, wikis, mailing lists, official IRC rooms and forums. Standardization of code for BSD's will mean less maintenance downstream for each OS.

While FreeBSD is great, it took a long time for it to have a permissively licensed toolchain/compiler set, and a long time for multimedia key support. I have enough needed features, but FreeBSD needs a bit more for modern hardware. For such benefits, how many more years will it be? Many of us arent waiting, either accepting FreeBSD as is, or some giving up on it. It would be nice to import Bluetooth drivers from Linux, and that would be great, if their license were a little better, to not be viral into the rest of the system, by placing a limit to how far GPL goes. There are ways around that, like accepting those terms, or using API layers as how made for Microsoft wireless drivers are used on FreeBSD. Arch Linux brings a lot of great basic programs to FreeBSD, which those need to be forked to be more BSD like.

FreeBSD seems to be marketed heavily towards companies which use it in commercial products and aren't required to give back. Some do give back, and they boost capabilities of FreeBSD by their software contributions. Perhaps this is a fallback market due to it not having as many desktop and casual server users. FreeBSD should really be eating the lunch of Linux From Scratch and Linux Server distributions. Much simpler and better than those.
 
The OP said:-

"While understanding that all participants are volunteers, as an external committer who has long experienced delayed handling of submissions (and I am not an isolated case), a clear response and processing timeframe is particularly necessary and reasonable."
and
"I understand that everyone is a volunteer, but if the FreeBSD project is to move forward, then someone must be willing to make greater sacrifices and put in more effort."

OK, I'll bite. I don't know anything about monks, fat, thin or otherwise, however it appears to me that people who are volunteers, giving their time freely for the good of the freebsd project, cannot BY DEFINITION be put under ANY time pressure to achieve any particular deadlines. Volunteers are not paid. The software is downloaded for free as-is and it is not a commercial software product.

Specifically there is NO SUCH REQUIREMENT viz "someone must be willing to make greater sacrifices and put in more effort" in order for the FreeBSD project to "move forward"; but that is merely the OP's opinion. "'Move forward" - according to who? Whereas I think FreeBSD has "moved forward" perfectly well for many years, decades in fact, under the existing system.

Presumably the Chinese freebsd users the OP claims to represent want their changes to be integrated to a deadline in order to meet a wider project deadline, ie they are using freebsd for some other project (presumably commercial) that is being developed to a deadline and they want their new feature supported in freebsd so that they can achieve their own project deadline. Why else would there be any time pressure to integrate external contributions of this type?

But FreeBSD is not a commercial operating system, and nor should it become one. The user is free to spin their own version of the codebase incorporating their new code to use in whatever product they are developing, and maintain that codebase in-house, but they can make no claim against the original developers to incorporate their changes into the original code to any specific time deadline, because there was no commercial support agreement or fee paid for the original software when they downloaded it.

Furthermore, there may well be other good reasons why acceptance of any particular submission is either delayed or never in fact occurs, unrelated to what the OP assumes is due to a slow process. Indeed it is only the OP's assumption that their submissions were delayed due to a slow process, not a proven fact.
 
The OP said:-

"While understanding that all participants are volunteers, as an external committer who has long experienced delayed handling of submissions (and I am not an isolated case), a clear response and processing timeframe is particularly necessary and reasonable."
and
"I understand that everyone is a volunteer, but if the FreeBSD project is to move forward, then someone must be willing to make greater sacrifices and put in more effort."

OK, I'll bite. I don't know anything about monks, fat, thin or otherwise, however it appears to me that people who are volunteers, giving their time freely for the good of the freebsd project, cannot BY DEFINITION be put under ANY time pressure to achieve any particular deadlines. Volunteers are not paid. The software is downloaded for free as-is and it is not a commercial software product.

Specifically there is NO SUCH REQUIREMENT viz "someone must be willing to make greater sacrifices and put in more effort" in order for the FreeBSD project to "move forward"; but that is merely the OP's opinion. "'Move forward" - according to who? Whereas I think FreeBSD has "moved forward" perfectly well for many years, decades in fact, under the existing system.

Presumably the Chinese freebsd users the OP claims to represent want their changes to be integrated to a deadline in order to meet a wider project deadline, ie they are using freebsd for some other project (presumably commercial) that is being developed to a deadline and they want their new feature supported in freebsd so that they can achieve their own project deadline. Why else would there be any time pressure to integrate external contributions of this type?

But FreeBSD is not a commercial operating system, and nor should it become one. The user is free to spin their own version of the codebase incorporating their new code to use in whatever product they are developing, and maintain that codebase in-house, but they can make no claim against the original developers to incorporate their changes into the original code to any specific time deadline, because there was no commercial support agreement or fee paid for the original software when they downloaded it.

Furthermore, there may well be other good reasons why acceptance of any particular submission is either delayed or never in fact occurs, unrelated to what the OP assumes is due to a slow process. Indeed it is only the OP's assumption that their submissions were delayed due to a slow process, not a proven fact.
Putting additional requirements on existing volunteers won't work. As often as not, they will simply walk away. Even if they don't, they are on a path to burnout.

We do need more volunteers, especially to review and commit more patches.
 
We do need more volunteers, especially to review and commit more patches.
This a an obvious truism. Often heard but rarely said, how to achieve.

What happens in realtime is exactly the opposite. Contributing volunteers do leave the FreeBSD project in numbers. When trying to talk to them, you notice frustration. I heard someone coining the term "FrustBSD" for FreeBSD.

It's a mix of experience and not so good feelings which makes people leave the project. Of course there is always an idiosyncratic part, but there is also a systemic part and that is the interesting one. If more people are leaving than being welcomed, then something is badly going wrong. There is a need for finding reasons and acting against fluctuation.

If there is an urgent need for volunteers to provide patches, it is simply not enough to shout in the dark forest "We need volunteers for patches!"
If there is a need for reviewers it is not enough stating "We do not have enough reviewers!"
If there is a need for more committers it is f...ing not enough to wait until someone says "Here I'm! May I please, eventually?"

I do wonder what the bureaucrats do the whole day? For promoting, advocating, marketing, monetizing you need something that prevails in future with solid quality. That is at stake. Hey folks in the "Foundation" get awake and move your ass.

You need qualified volunteers? Start training them! Offer workshops, mentors, training classes - actively - NOW!
 
If more people are leaving than being welcomed, then something is badly going wrong. There is a need for finding reasons and acting against fluctuation.

If there is an urgent need for volunteers to provide patches, it is simply not enough to shout in the dark forest "We need volunteers for patches!"
If there is a need for reviewers it is not enough stating "We do not have enough reviewers!"
If there is a need for more committers it is f...ing not enough to wait until someone says "Here I'm!"

I do wonder what the bureaucrats do the whole day? For promoting, advocating, marketing, monetizing you need something that prevails in future with solid quality. That is at stake. Hey folks in the "Foundation"...
You need qualified volunteers? Start training them! Offer workshops, mentors, training classes - ACTIVELY!
I wonder if they need to have paid workers who do commits and patches. While this may bring more contributions, at the same time, it could make others feel left out from getting paid to do a consistent duty. Another way, is to have volunteers who are paid by their companies, or have more company sponsorships for code.

I wonder if some of the problem is that the FreeBSD base system is great, so they feel that the ports system can be left alone, and mostly be made up by volunteers. The ports system lacks way more than the base system when it comes to commits. On the other hand, the FreeBSD ports system is one of the largest repositories of programs of open source operating systems. The base system gets way more attention than ports.

While the base system is great, they could pay someone, including for their past work to have the last few needed pieces of the compiler toolchain finished up. Paying for upgrading Python related ports may have helped that project get done sooner as well. The ports tree could also have its structure improved.
 
This a an obvious truism. Often heard but rarely said, how to achieve.

What happens in realtime is exactly the opposite. Contributing volunteers do leave the FreeBSD project in numbers. When trying to talk to them, you notice frustration. I heard someone coining the term "FrustBSD" for FreeBSD.

It's a mix of experience and not so good feelings which makes people leave the project. Of course there is always an idiosyncratic part, but there is also a systemic part and that is the interesting one. If more people are leaving than being welcomed, then something is badly going wrong. There is a need for finding reasons and acting against fluctuation.

If there is an urgent need for volunteers to provide patches, it is simply not enough to shout in the dark forest "We need volunteers for patches!"
If there is a need for reviewers it is not enough stating "We do not have enough reviewers!"
If there is a need for more committers it is f...ing not enough to wait until someone says "Here I'm! May I please, eventually?"

I do wonder what the bureaucrats do the whole day? For promoting, advocating, marketing, monetizing you need something that prevails in future with solid quality. That is at stake. Hey folks in the "Foundation" get awake and move your ass.

You need qualified volunteers? Start training them! Offer workshops, mentors, training classes - actively - NOW!
Haven't you read FreeBSD Foundation's site, especially "Upcoming Events" part and "Newsletter?
 
What may help is maintainership belonging to a group of people, rather than just one. Ports which are maintained get better and quicker responses. FreeBSD isn't set for multiple listed maintainers of one port. As maintenanceship belongs to one email address, mailing lists have taken care of using one maintainer account of multiple people. The maintainer doesn't necessarily have to be an account on the FreeBSD mailing list. Thus, this can be working groups.

Everyone using a working group would have to teach/coach others on how to use this system of using git and editing/creating Makefiles. We need this anyway, with or without a working group.

Also, mailing lists have been difficult for me, as it requires extra formatting, responding to the right texts, and copying each piece being responded to. It's easier to see and respond to forums and other text venues. If there's a better way than a mailing list for multiple people to be under 1 email address for maintainership. Still, the benefits of using a mailing list email for group maintainership outweigh the difficulty of using it.
 
My experience is that ports with one maintainer are dealt with much more quickly than ports maintained by a mailing list.

Also, various scripts in the ports tree assume that there is only one value in the MAINTAINER field, as does FreshPorts and at least one other codebase I could name.

I have seen this handled with a comment line before or after MAINTAINER stating who is welcome to commit.
 
This has been going on in the FreeBSD Discord for a while. At the moment, it has hit a lull.
Maybe that's an unfair and very personal point of view of mine, but to me Discord is just kind of a
"social media kindergarden for gamers." That's why I don't have no Discord account.

However,
why not HERE? Why not ...
Offer workshops, mentors, training classes
...even recruit for certain jobs, here? (Or at least link to it.)
What's wrong with that?

FreeBSD has this exemplary forums. Not seldom GhostBSD, TrueNAS, Linux, and other users come here willfully ignoring the rules because they find no other place to get their problem solved as here.
Besides the mailing lists with this forums FreeBSD has its own vital "social media", according to the number of views read by many, many more people as write here.

Sometimes I get that feeling by the officials this forums is kind of a unpopular side show. Sometimes some official from the foundation drops something here, closed for reply, "here! read this!", and that's it. 'Oneway communication from above.'
Especially when I read articles under the large topic "get in touch with the comnmunity" I don't get it. Where is the community if not here? (Discord. right.)

To me - besides reading mails from the lists - this forums is the main way to stay in touch with the project and the community. I know the foundation has a website. There even is a magazine? Nothing that interests me. Here, I said it. (I did also at least twice in the surveys, which in my eyes often ask the wrong questions, and so may not come to correct conclusions. But I also said this in the survey itself directly, while I also believe in such surveys just the multiple choice questions are statistically purified ("nice graphics"), and the "other" text boxes are simply ignored ("maybe later."))

Even if it's not magazine's article style the information flow within this forums (besides the mailing lists) to me are way more important, suitable, interesting, informative, current... to almost all my FreeBSD user's needs as anything else - which includes the question how to contribute more as I already do. I profit from way - way - more than just troubleshooting, and off-topic chitchat. I really love to follow discussions here about technical details and issues I don't understand shit. Even from that I learn one thing or the other.
Of course I speak for myself, only. And I cannot remotely guess if the majority, or just an insignificant, negligibly small minority here sees it similar.

So, if there is nothing much to read about such issues here, to me everything feels aces.
While at the same time there are trials to recruit contributers on Discord? :-/

Well, yeah "In a project like this there is always the need for more volunteers."
Of course. But that's general.
As also was said here: Problems have to be addressed.

To end with a positive example:
As far as I remember a few years ago there was the issue to improve the handbook discussed here.
I don't know details, but all I recognized so far was a long year experienced forum member joined that 'project.' I cannot judge if there is a context, but I all I know is the former not really bad handbook became actually even better.
 
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