Other PSA: check your Samsung SSDs

cracauer@

cracauer@

Developer
Might be worth checking on your Samsung SSDs.

The 990 Pro has problems with premature wear, and a firmware update is available. The updates does not restore the excess wear, so it should probably be installed as soon as possible.

The 980 Pro has problems with going permanently readonly at random, and a firmware update is available.

The 870 Evo has other problems, and no update is available:
www.techpowerup.com

Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!

Could samsung be engaging in a little planned obsolescence in their SSD designs? So these failures aren't so much a design flaw as a design feature?
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
 
cracauer@ said:
Might be worth checking on your Samsung SSDs.

The 990 Pro has problems with premature wear, and a firmware update is available. The updates does not restore the excess wear, so it should probably be installed as soon as possible.

The 980 Pro has problems with going permanently readonly at random, and a firmware update is available.

The 870 Evo has other problems, and no update is available:
www.techpowerup.com

Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!

Could samsung be engaging in a little planned obsolescence in their SSD designs? So these failures aren't so much a design flaw as a design feature?
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
Click to expand...
I have had a 980 Pro for the past year no issues. Is it possible to upgrade the firmware without windows?
 
TheDantee said:
I have had a 980 Pro for the past year no issues. Is it possible to upgrade the firmware without windows?
Click to expand...

They have some hopefully bootable ISO images.
semiconductor.samsung.com

Samsung Magician & SSD Tools & Software Update | Samsung Semiconductor Global

Download Samsung Magician, tools & software for Samsung SSDs, Data Migration Software, Firmware, Driver, Data Center Toolkit, Activation Software.
semiconductor.samsung.com semiconductor.samsung.com

My only affected drive happens to be in a multi-boot so I could use windows.
 
It does not smell good !
I thought "SSD m2" were more robust and reliable than "SSD SATA" based on a comment I've read (here I think not sure of this) but it seems that they are not bullet proof either, I guess the heat doesn't help even with a heatsink.
 
gotnull said:
It does not smell good !
I thought "SSD m2" were more robust and reliable than "SSD SATA" based on a comment I've read (here I think not sure of this) but it seems that they are not bullet proof either, I guess the heat doesn't help even with a heatsink.
Click to expand...
Alain De Vos said:
I have a Samsung SSD 850 PRO 128GB who completely died...
Click to expand...
I ran a set of 2 850 EVOs and 2 850 Pros a few years back without any issues and switched to all M.2 in like 2019 never have had issues with any of my drives they never pass 50C if that helps at all. The big thing with SSDs is to watch how many bits per cell there are, QLC for example is the least robust (PLC is coming soon I hear which will be even worse) QLC = 4 bits PLC = 5 bits. TLC is 3 bits and is usually the sweet spot for the consumer market MLC (2 bits) however is what you want if you can find some Samsung's Pro line used to be MLC but when I got my 980 Pro I realized its 3 bits (Samsung is shady and lists everything on there site as MLC so 3 bit MLC = TLC). Less bits = less speed but more longevity and usually comes with a lower capacity. Sabrent makes decent drives In my experience if you guys are anti-samsung from your past experiences. Some SSDs market themselves with an SLC Cache which can be misleading as some may think the whole drive is using SLC and is very robust so look out for that as well its not bad to have SLC Cache at all just make sure you don't think your getting an SLC drive they are usually much much slower and enterprise only these days.

1676565376285.png
 
TheDantee said:
I like Samsung drives more for sure without a doubt the marketing is shady though as they market everything under MLC so if you don't know what your looking for exactly you can get misleaded.
Click to expand...
What does the term "MLC" really mean? There are two schools of thought here:
  • Multiple levels (of bits) per cell. In that sense, SLC flash stores exactly one bit per physical capacitor, while MLC stores more than one. The term "multiple" or "more than one" means 2, 3, 4 or more bits. In this sense of the word, TLC and QLC are a sub-category of MLC.
  • Exactly two levels per cell. This makes sense if one looks at the history of how flash chips were introduced: At first, MLC nearly completely meant 4 voltage levels = 2 bits per cell, and the usage "MLC = 2 bits per cell" predominated for several years, so the term became synonymous with 2.
Both usages are common in the industry. People who care (and need to care) need to understand this, in the same sense as needing to understand the difference between GB and GiB. Using the term "MLC" for 3- and 4-bit cells is not shady, it is common practice.

And please note that storing multiple bits in one capacitor (cell) long predates the SSD industry. I know that in the 90s, some semiconductor manufacturers were already doing (EP-)ROMs that had more than two voltage levels. In the late 90s, a startup near my house built 8-bit MLC NAND flash (256 voltage levels), which were intended to store audio data (for the voice mail / answering machine market); the idea there was that the storage was accurate to about 7 or 7.5 bits, which was good enough for audio, at a saving of a factor of 8 in die area.
 
ralphbsz said:
What does the term "MLC" really mean? There are two schools of thought here:
  • Multiple levels (of bits) per cell. In that sense, SLC flash stores exactly one bit per physical capacitor, while MLC stores more than one. The term "multiple" or "more than one" means 2, 3, 4 or more bits. In this sense of the word, TLC and QLC are a sub-category of MLC.
Click to expand...
Yes I'm aware that's why they are allowed to get away with calling it MLC
ralphbsz said:
Both usages are common in the industry. People who care (and need to care) need to understand this, in the same sense as needing to understand the difference between GB and GiB.
Click to expand...
I suppose
ralphbsz said:
Using the term "MLC" for 3- and 4-bit cells is not shady, it is common practice.
Click to expand...
I'd argue otherwise in favor of the uneducated buyer who may just understand MLC lasts longer than a TLC drive. Just because you and I know 3 bit MLC is TLC doesn't mean it's obvious to everyone.
ralphbsz said:
And please note that storing multiple bits in one capacitor (cell) long predates the SSD industry. I know that in the 90s, some semiconductor manufacturers were already doing (EP-)ROMs that had more than two voltage levels. In the late 90s, a startup near my house built 8-bit MLC NAND flash (256 voltage levels), which were intended to store audio data (for the voice mail / answering machine market); the idea there was that the storage was accurate to about 7 or 7.5 bits, which was good enough for audio, at a saving of a factor of 8 in die area.
Click to expand...
Interesting
 
The levels are voltage levels. Endurance goes down faster is because the cell holds a narrower range of voltages as the flash wears out and that squishes the defined voltage levels together until they crash into each other. Apparently they also have to read the cell a bunch more times and use ECC, and that doesn't help?

Could be the caching system that's wearing out for the Samsungs. Who knows.

Anyway the reason why they do this is because lower cell density chips are more expensive and people want larger drives. SSDs seem to have stalled in terms of sizes, though. Probably should have stuck with the 2.5 form factor so they could jam more chips in them.

MLC sometimes called DLC now to be less ambiguous?

arstechnica.com

SSDs are on track to get bigger and cheaper thanks to PLC technology

Storage of five bits in every NAND cell is coming, courtesy of Intel and Toshiba.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
 
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