Patriots or Seahawks?

[Crivens]

So... what happens in Germany when a football/soccer player dies/passes away?

Yes, it's in the news, but that's it. We have such an awful lot of them, you can't shake a stick at them all...

I'm not quite sure, but I think it was the Americans who brought it to us in 1949:"Here! You better try this!"

We had that a long time before, but we had reigned it in somewhat to the point we had workers rights and pensions by then, introduced by some extreme left lunatic by the name of (checks notes) Bismark, that's the commie who did that.

But for me it's on the complete other edge of germany - way too far to travel.

Where would you be approximately?

And those wo have time, please check up on Conrad Zuse. His works even tanked some patents Intel tried to file for itanium.

 

[Maturin]

The car, fair enough,

Not even that.
The "Benz Patent Motorwagen" was in fact not the very first car at all, like the popular tale tells.

You are right. And I am fully aware of that.
Technical history, or to be more correct: the public memory about it, is full of such mistakes. Because the real truth mostly is way more complicate, not even to be defined absolutely. Most of those stories are just simplifications, which are not quite that true when you look closer at them. (Law of physics: The closer you look, the harder it is to draw a distinct line.)
Examples:
Otto Lilienthal build the first maned gliders, while the Wright brothers built - and flew (!) - the first maned motorized airplane.
Henry Ford did not invented the car - he invented the assembly line, realized modern industry and mass production.
James Watt did not invented the steam engine - he invented control engineering. This way he build way better reliable steam engines.
Benjamin Franklin did not discover electricity. That was perhaps some of the first creatures crawled to land, struck down by a lightning. This thing with the kite was a common experiment with natural electricity back in those days. Before generators the battery was invented (Volta is a typical example of the polymaths of that time. Very interesting guy!) Before that (in BF days) only electrostatics was the only source for electricity. Either by natural source (lightning), or by electrostatic generators. The amount of electricity produced and stored in Leiden jars (first Capacitors) was inpredictable. Those guys were experminenting with thousands of volts and amperes. Not a few have been killed - especially when experimenting with a kite in a thunderstorm. (The kite was mounted to the ground, and the line must not touched, as many illustrations showing Benjamin holding a kite.)
Benjamin Franklin invented the lightning discharger, became very rich with it, but above all he was one the founding fathers. But a story about a kite is better for children to remember an important person's name.

As you said, inventions, or to be more correct, the final usable product, is always a development process, based on former developments and inventions.

I don't want to stress here even more details, especially not about patent laws, particulary not the difference between the USA (the one who can prove to be the first one had the idea) and the rest of the world (the one who files the patent applications first), and why Edison became the offcial inventor of the light bulb (and other things) - which was a long process when you look at its history (that's why I used the terms as links to Wikipedia pages), started long before Nernst and Edison, so not a single inventor can be really pointed out - by several legal proceedings about patent rights, even if strictly speaking it was in fact against US patent law and in favor of the patent laws of the rest of the world, that made Edison finally the official inventor.

But CShell and I were just yanking at each other. And when he came to me with Diego Maradona (that's where we originally started - soccer), asking (as a joke) if we germans even had TV in the 1980s, I wanted to gave some back, just over-egging the pudding.

 

[Maturin]

We had that a long time before,

*sigh* I am fully aware of that.
Even the times of imperialism back to the german empire can be seen as kind of capitalism.
I wanted to answer CShell's joke-question with a sidewipe.

Dude, I hate to explain jokes.
A joke is always incorrect.
Otherwise it was not funny.

Where would you be approximately?

Lörrach. That would be the most south-west corner of germany, while Passau is farest east.

And those wo have time, please check up on Conrad Zuse. His works even tanked some patents Intel tried to file for itanium.

That's why I created the word 'computer' in my post #39 as a link to the Z1, because Zuse actually invented the modern, programmable computer. Electromechanically, not with tubes, or transistors yet, but he did invented the principal.

 

[Crivens]

Lörrach. That would be the most south-west corner of germany, while Passau is farest east.

Farest east? You should get a recent map. Things have been happening...

And you seem to have a coffee insufficiency right now. I used your joke as a start ramp for another one. Hope I need not explain...

 

[Maturin]

Well, yeah, Passau is not the farest east, but almost - beancounter!

Tea. When I'm not in Italy, I drink tea.

Okay. I not always get it when you mean it as a joke, and even so I sometimes don't get it.
But that I take 100% on my personal account - not yours.
And please do not explain!
Explaining jokes does not make them more funny.

 

[Maturin]

P.S.:

extreme left lunatic by the name of (checks notes) Bismark

should have given me the clue.
Sorry. I need to get me another cup.

 

[CShell]

But CShell and I were just yanking at each other. And when he came to me with Diego Maradona (that's where we originally started - soccer), asking (as a joke) if we germans even had TV in the 1980s, I wanted to gave some back, just over-egging the pudding.

Oh no - I was completely serious! Nawww

Yes! It's time for a cup

 

[CShell]

Dude, we germans practically invented modern TV.
It's always the same: We germans invent it - car, aircraft, light bulb, computer, TV - but others make it popular, getting rich and famous with it. Must be some kind of savant syndrome my folk posses.

Well - I used to watch a lot of the "old" Star Trek (STOS) made in the 1960s -- and on the show Ensign Chekov was always saying that "The Russians" invented everything! So I just figured the Germans invented everything.

Now if Germans are going to make "AI" work and fly us all to Mars... well OK !

Go Hawks !

 

[Maturin]

So I just figured the Germans invented everything.

Of course, we did.
Also the submarine, the rocket and space travel (the americans rehabilitated that Nazi von Braun just to get his technology), the fertilizer (Haber process), and yesterday I learned: also the Quick-firing gun again was an invention by a german, refused by all german companies, and then finally realized by the french, so the germans needed to dump all their new guns, and update all artillery in short time to the new level - typical! Just typical.

Nah, of course that's BS. Well, most of it. The story with the gun is true, though.
Most of this comes from national pride propaganda from the times before the second half of the 20th century, and still lingers on.
One of the things one could have learned from this COVID pandemy crap at the latest, or such things like open source projects, space travel, astronomy, et al: In reality scientists work together worldwide. Nations don't matter. Otherwise we still be in the middleages.
Nations are an obsolete concept, but most humans are not only too far away to grasp this, they even draw themselves even farther away, reverse back to the middleages.
Alas some still don't get it at all, still in their tiny, sometimes defective brains linger in the times of imperialism, or worse. And they are even elected to nation's leaders.
But what actually makes me wonder ain't not, what happens when chimps are given guns and the keys to the banana plantation, but why anybody wonders and is outraged by what then actually happens when chimps are in charge, given guns, and the keys. And above all why nobody asks how they got the keys, or who gave'em to them, and why - still the wrong questions are asked. With the Washington Post another of the last great flagships of liberty is successfully sunk by the chimps.

Now if Germans are going to make "AI" work and fly us all to Mars... well OK !

That's a great idea!
You all fly to Mars, and I, some young pretty women, a physician, a greenkeeper, a farmer, a beerbrewer (german, of course - who wants to drink anything else [OK, OK, maybe a Czech [they invented the beer - the real beer!], or a Belgian]), some cooks, and some buddies to play golf and cards with, stay here with me on earth.
We can stay in contact - Elon may build a cluster of zillions sattelites, so we can play xonotic over the net.

And there on Mars you can play football, soccer, baseball, snooker, darts, water ballet or what you find thrilling.

 

[cracauer@]

Also, never confuse who patented an idea first with who invented it.

Benjamin Franklin seems to have a few discrepancies there, among many others.

 

[Maturin]

Also, never confuse who patented an idea first with who invented it.

I thought I elaborated that.

among many others.

In deed so.
To german speakers I can recommend
Traudl Bünger und Roger Willemsen, "Ich gebe Ihnen mein Ehrenwort - Die Weltgeschichte der Lüge"

 

[Maturin]

so we can play xonotic over the net.

No, we cannot.
It just came to my mind I underestimated the distance to Mars, and overestimated the speed of light.
Real time games were too laggy.
We need to think of something turn based.

 

[Crivens]

[they invented the beer - the real beer!]

Egypt and Mesopotania want a word with that. The first laws about what can go into beer are, if I remember correctly, in the codex hamurabi. And Egypt had beer for who knows how long. Something must have been in play when they build the pyramids.

We need to think of something turn based.

Also a new network protocol, as the time delay easily flunks the TTL of TCP.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a1OnQjpoGg

 

[Maturin]

Egypt and Mesopotania

...*sigh* That's why I said "real" beer, referring to pils.

Also a new network protocol

We think about that, when you are on Mars.

And yes, I also know Sputnik and its historical meaning.

 

[Crivens]

...*sigh* That's why I said "real" beer, referring to pils.

Which is a sub category of beer, but enough of this in this dry place. We shall continue that discussion over the corpus delicti in question.
To the foreign readers, when you want to see what is worse than two rednecks arguing football/baseball/... - that is two germans arguing beer.

 

[Maturin]

We shall continue that discussion over the corpus delicti in question.

That is a very good idea! I'm in.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

 

[POSIX.1]

drhowarddrfine what you are showing here is a prime example of blatant plagiarism and an insult to the original Czech Budweiser beer.

Budweiser trademark dispute - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Take a daytrip from Passau to Budweis, and you will taste an excellent české pivo Budweiser. What Anheuser is proud of is cheap swill.

 

[hedwards]

Not even that.
The "Benz Patent Motorwagen" was in fact not the very first car at all, like the popular tale tells.

You are right. And I am fully aware of that.
Technical history, or to be more correct: the public memory about it, is full of such mistakes. Because the real truth mostly is way more complicate, not even to be defined absolutely. Most of those stories are just simplifications, which are not quite that true when you look closer at them. (Law of physics: The closer you look, the harder it is to draw a distinct line.)
Examples:
Otto Lilienthal build the first maned gliders, while the Wright brothers built - and flew (!) - the first maned motorized airplane.
Henry Ford did not invented the car - he invented the assembly line, realized modern industry and mass production.
James Watt did not invented the steam engine - he invented control engineering. This way he build way better reliable steam engines.
Benjamin Franklin did not discover electricity. That was perhaps some of the first creatures crawled to land, struck down by a lightning. This thing with the kite was a common experiment with natural electricity back in those days. Before generators the battery was invented (Volta is a typical example of the polymaths of that time. Very interesting guy!) Before that (in BF days) only electrostatics was the only source for electricity. Either by natural source (lightning), or by electrostatic generators. The amount of electricity produced and stored in Leiden jars (first Capacitors) was inpredictable. Those guys were experminenting with thousands of volts and amperes. Not a few have been killed - especially when experimenting with a kite in a thunderstorm. (The kite was mounted to the ground, and the line must not touched, as many illustrations showing Benjamin holding a kite.)
Benjamin Franklin invented the lightning discharger, became very rich with it, but above all he was one the founding fathers. But a story about a kite is better for children to remember an important person's name.

As you said, inventions, or to be more correct, the final usable product, is always a development process, based on former developments and inventions.

I don't want to stress here even more details, especially not about patent laws, particulary not the difference between the USA (the one who can prove to be the first one had the idea) and the rest of the world (the one who files the patent applications first), and why Edison became the offcial inventor of the light bulb (and other things) - which was a long process when you look at its history (that's why I used the terms as links to Wikipedia pages), started long before Nernst and Edison, so not a single inventor can be really pointed out - by several legal proceedings about patent rights, even if strictly speaking it was in fact against US patent law and in favor of the patent laws of the rest of the world, that made Edison finally the official inventor.

But CShell and I were just yanking at each other. And when he came to me with Diego Maradona (that's where we originally started - soccer), asking (as a joke) if we germans even had TV in the 1980s, I wanted to gave some back, just over-egging the pudding.

No worries, it's a rather slippery slope to make such determinations. The planes first commercially viable planes were the result of a series of rather difficult inventions. If the problem of gliders hadn't already been cracked, adding a small motor wouldn't have done anything as the engines of the day were some combination of too heavy or too weak to do the job otherwise.

I wish people wouldn't teach that Ben Franklin was trying to discover electricity, he wasn't as electricity was already known, he was trying to determine if lightning is made of electricity, which wasn't known at the time.

 

[Maturin]

Take a daytrip from Passau to Budweis, and you will taste an excellent české pivo Budweiser. What Anheuser is proud of is cheap swill.

Beware. US americans are used to much lighter beers as we are.
I remember back at U when our exchange student from Illinois had his first german beers. Just 0,5 ordinary pils, normal Einbecker, not Bock or such. After two bottles he was already pretty blitzed, and after three wasted.
It's not just the small amount of more alcohol, but also in combination with the higher amount of hop, and the higher gravity our beers posses.
But since drhowarddrfine seems to be frequently in Europe, I guess he already is used to our beer.
While a daytrip to Budweis to was good idea anyway though, I doubt within a two day trip to Passau there was enough time for that. But you get original Budweiser almost everywhere, especially close to the border.

 

[Crivens]

Re all the inventions: what is the inventor of the steam engine without the inventor of the safety valve?

 

[Jose]

They are famous for winning a game against England with the "La mano de Dios!" (Translated: "The hand of God!") - LINK: Wikipedia - Hand f God -- by Diego Maradona.

I prefer the Hand of Suárez.

 

[POSIX.1]

And Egypt had beer for who knows how long.

Archaeological research at sites like Hierakonpolis and Amarna suggests a "two-stage" mashing process. This involved mixing a batch of sprouted, malted grain with a batch of cooked grain in water, allowing enzymes to convert starches into fermentable sugars. This suggests that "brewing" may be an inadequate term for the ancient Egyptian process. While the term "brewing" is colloquially used to describe any production of an alcoholic grain beverage, the specific biochemical and physical methods used in the Nile Valley, particularly the "two-stage" mashing identified at sites like Amarna and Hierakonpolis, differ fundamentally from the European hopped-kettle tradition.

In modern brewing, the "boil" is a critical stage where wort is heated with hops to sterilize the liquid and extract bitterness. In contrast, research suggests that the Egyptian process was a "cold-mash" or "low-heat" system. Because the mixture was often not boiled after this stage, the resulting liquid retained a high level of solids, proteins, and live yeast. This led many early 20th-century scholars to describe the product as "liquid bread" or "fermented gruel" rather than beer.

For decades, the standard description of Egyptian brewing was that they crumbled "beer-bread" into water. However, microscopic examination of desiccated residues has shown that the starch granules were not always fully baked. This implies that the "bread" used was actually a "starter culture" or a way to store yeast and enzymes in a portable form, rather than a finished food product. Consequently, the procedure was more of a biochemical conversion of grain than a "brewing" in the modern sense.

 

[Maturin]

Re all the inventions: what is the inventor of the steam engine without the inventor of the safety valve?

Yes. Just risking to get up in smokes.

 

[Maturin]

Archaeological research at sites like Hierakonpolis

[Edit: That was actually interesting. I knew some of those facts, but the new ones filled some blanks in my picture of the history of beer. Thanks.]

...I just lost track completely, beer, cars, flames, inventions... and needed to take a peak at the topic where we actually are.
Superbowl. Right.
So, whose nipples are shown this year?