New to BSD

[phoenix]

If I were a decision maker in FreeBSD and OpenBSD system I would replace ports system with pkgsrc system .

You'd be losing out on something like 1/2 the software. There's a heck of a lot more stuff available in the ports tree than in pkgsrc.

 

[darkshadow]

pksrc

You'd be losing out on something like 1/2 the software. There's a heck of a lot more stuff available in the ports tree than in pkgsrc.

but on another side pkgsrc is a new project and it address many issue on old packaging system (like ports ) and tried to solve it ,

 

[phoenix]

Define "new project". pkgsrc has been around as long as the ports tree has, give or take maybe a year.

As mentioned above, any user is free to use pkgsrc instead of ports on FreeBSD, as FreeBSD is a supported platform for pkgsrc. However, with all the projects underway to improve the ports tree, it's not going anywhere, and will remain the official method for installing software on FreeBSD.

 

[kpedersen]

Plus AIX is a supported platform, and I found many of the ports failed to compile.

FreeBSD ports is tailored to FreeBSD and so the ports are much more likely to work flawlessly.

 

[nakal]

I used *-RELEASE packages for most of the time, now I have switched to *-STABLE and I have up to date packages without needles recompilation.

So you recommend to use a development version of FreeBSD world to use latest packages? I'm using -RELEASE with latest software.

Actually I do that, everytime I use computer I use only english settings, menus, localization, man pages, error messages ... it makes A LOT easier to fix anything if You search for sollution in english then in any other local language, its just unpractical. I also use UTF-8 at the same time, so I can type/read any localized charecters.

Well, you might ask yourself if it's the packages that force you to do this and you simply accepted it. I want my desktop in my language. And you often need to adapt software for it.

Commercial applitacations are mostly provided in BINARY form so You can not compile them, You have a source for nVidia binary drivers? Great! Share the source, X.org developers will be very happy

But there is no package. Only a port.

I do not use CUPS ...

And I know why.

I stay away from this SH!T as far as possible, and I recommned You also, stay away from any SH!T writtne by Lenart Poettring.

Yes and to disable the "SH!T" you need to adjust a knob for many applications.

It will require to recompile JUST SEVERAL PORTS instead of building all your ports, rebuilding GNOME from source will not help You getting hardware acceleration with RadeonHD cards You know?

Of course, you can partially use packages, but they are old for -RELEASE.

I use packages for everything as a start, if something is not the way I need, I create a package from PORTS with my needed settings ... and thats it generally, whole idea. I recompile only things that do not fit into my expectations.

I always use ports. I never need packages.

 

[vermaden]

So you recommend to use a development version of FreeBSD world to use latest packages? I'm using -RELEASE with latest software.

As soon as some 'non-security' serious bugs are discovered *-RELEASE should no longer be considered as 'production system', here is why: http://blog.vx.sk/archives/24-Backported-patches-for-FreeBSD-82-RELEASE.html

These are rather serious issues/bugs but they will not find their way into the 8.2-RELEASE, to have them you need to use 8-STABLE. That is why *-STABLE branch is more suitable for production the *-RELEASE.

Well, you might ask yourself if it's the packages that force you to do this and you simply accepted it. I want my desktop in my language. And you often need to adapt software for it.

I use these English settings everywhere mate, even on the cell phone, GPS navigation ... everywhere, I just can't stand 'technology' in my local language, also because of sometimes REALLY stupid translations; English systems are more readeable/understandable.

But there is no package. Only a port.

If some software is available only in binary form, then its no matter if its port or a package, even typing make install at ports like Opera/nVidia driver/Flash it will only fetch the binaries and install them, no compiling.

Yes and to disable the "SH!T" you need to adjust a knob for many applications.

I haven't compiled anything else then lame port and I do not have pulse shit installed even as a dependency:

vermaden ~ % pkg_info | grep -i pulse
vermaden ~ %

Of course, you can partially use packages, but they are old for -RELEASE.

That is why I moved to *-STABLE where packages are built every two weeks.

I always use ports. I never need packages.

So you have to have a lot of time and CPU power at the same time then.

 

[Blueprint]

If you mix ports and packages and later do a [CMD=""]portmaster -a[/CMD] will it attempt to compile later versions of the packages that is installed?

 

[vermaden]

If you mix ports and packages and later do a [CMD=""]portmaster -a[/CMD] will it attempt to compile later versions of the packages that is installed?

At the point I will find that my packages are in conflict with some newer package/port I would rather redownload all packages (they are built every two weeks) and re-add them instead of compiling them with portmaster.

 

[mix_room]

Well, you might ask yourself if it's the packages that force you to do this and you simply accepted it. I want my desktop in my language. And you often need to adapt software for it.

I'm with Vermaden on this one. I hate having to use other languages than English on the desktop. You then get peculiar names for things, like 'Strg'. It would often be easier to only have english, and just learn the English term for it than a made-up native one. Often the non-English ones are just the first thing that google-translate came up with.

 

[nakal]

As soon as some 'non-security' serious bugs are discovered *-RELEASE should no longer be considered as 'production system', here is why: http://blog.vx.sk/archives/24-Backported-patches-for-FreeBSD-82-RELEASE.html

These are rather serious issues/bugs but they will not find their way into the 8.2-RELEASE, to have them You need to use 8-STABLE. That is why *-STABLE branch is more suitable for production the *-RELEASE.

Seems that these bugs are not considered critical nor security problems. Have you read read the handbook what/who STABLE is for? You should not recommend STABLE for production systems.

I use these english settings everywhere mate, even on the cell phone, GPS navigation ... everywhere, I just cant stand 'technology' in my local language, also because of sometimes REALLY stupid translations english systems are more readeable/understandable.

So, I know who to thank for NOT contributing to make translations better!

You know they are stupid, why not fix them? It makes FreeBSD and its applications better.

If some software is available only in binary form, then its no matter if its port or a package, even typing make install at ports like Opera/nVidia driver/Flash it will only fetch the binaries and install them, no compiling.

Not really. NVidia driver port compiles stuff to be able to link the binary driver to user's kernel.

So You have to have a lot of time and CPU power at the same time then.

You don't really need much CPU power. The first time you install ports, it can be time consuming, especially on an Atom-based netbook, yeah. The updates are not really worth mentioning, except for about 5 bigger applications, which you even can skip, if you want to (see: portmaster -x option).

And if you have many replicated installations, you can build your customized packages and distribute the packages the hosts.

@mix_room: Of course you can choose the language you like. If you stick to English, it's easier to use preconfigured software packages. This is the point we are talking about.

 

[Zare]

Count me in, too, as my language belongs to same group as Vermaden's. Slavic languages are really really dumb for anything related to technology.

 

[vermaden]

Seems that these bugs are not considered critical nor security problems.

This is true as long as these problems do not 'hit' you ...

So, I know who to thank for NOT contributing to make translations better!

Definitely, I think that anybody that wants to 'mess' with *ANY* operating systems should know English. Period.

You know they are stupid, why not fix them? It makes FreeBSD and its applications better.

I think I miss the context here ...

Not really. NVidia driver port compiles stuff to be able to link the binary driver to user's kernel.

But the 'most important part', the driver is just a binary blob, compiling a small 'layer' does not hurt that bad.

And if you have many replicated installations, you can build your customized packages and distribute the packages the hosts.

This is what is actually done on FreeBSD's FTP servers with packages, so why double their work, the packages I need are already available.

 

[phoenix]

So you recommend to use a development version of FreeBSD world to use latest packages? I'm using -RELEASE with latest software.

No. He's saying you use a -RELEASE version of the OS. But you set your PACKAGSITE environment variable to point to the packages-8-stable directory so that you get -STABLE (as in, updated) packages when using the pkg_* tools.

 

[mix_room]

@mix_room: Of course you can choose the language you like. If you stick to English, it's easier to use preconfigured software packages. This is the point we are talking about.

It's not that you can chose. It is rather that I rarely see the point of using an alternative language to English in computing. For most people, computing is a new paradigm. They have to learn new concepts and terms. Whether one decides to call the first entry in the menu-bar 'File' or 'Datei' doesn't really matter when you set out. Neither of them are the first thing that comes to mind. Even though I am equally well versed in both languages, I still find the German translations very confusing. Perhaps it is because of differences in the semantical structure between the languages, or because they are afterthoughts. If I use my mother as an example, she doesn't really care whether the language is German or English, she doesn't know where to click in any case. Translation efforts are well used when it comes to handbooks and the like, but when it is the software I often feel that the efforts are counterproductive.