My Amazon rant

[Crivens]

More power to them.

One difference between france and germany: when the order is given for all males to be at the town hall on sunday to have their balls cut off to fight rape, 90% of germans would be at the town hall. In france, 90% of the town halls would mysterialy burn down...

(Maybe I'd also show up there, but I'd be kinda clanking when I walk)

 

[boris_net]

Things currently heating up in France though.

Well not really - it is currently just warming up with a tiny percentage of the population trying something. What the most obvious has been to me though is the way medias cover the topic - it is not even funny how much it is just propaganda for the government in place to keep the country in check...

It is very much "nothing significant to report, we are going to continue our reforms, Sincerely, Your Gov".

Those reforms have been presented at the election in 2017 as "give more to the richs so that it will go back to the masses" - 24% voted for that on the first round of the presidential elections while there were 4 major candidates, the remaining three scoring respectively 21.30% (extreme right), 20.01% (right) and 19.58% (extreme left).
What a divided nation...

 

[fernandel]

Well not really - it is currently just warming up with a tiny percentage of the population trying something. What the most obvious has been to me though is the way medias cover the topic - it is not even funny how much it is just propaganda for the government in place to keep the country in check...

It is very much "nothing significant to report, we are going to continue our reforms, Sincerely, Your Gov".

Those reforms have been presented at the election in 2017 as "give more to the richs so that it will go back to the masses" - 24% voted for that on the first round of the presidential elections while there were 4 major candidates, the remaining three scoring respectively 21.30% (extreme right), 20.01% (right) and 19.58% (extreme left).
What a divided nation...

France changed as all the world which start boiling...

 

[sidetone]

I read an article that said the richs' programs for social equality are token at best. They want to keep the system that makes it difficult for the average person, so that they can remain at the top. I think of these programs as a facade, or maybe tax cuts for donating to their own (often meaningless) non-profits.

One example was a bank's program to help those with housing. It pointed out, maybe the banks should stop having a system that exploits homeowners financially causing the largest banking crisis and housing crisis. Then this program that barely helps people wouldn't be needed.

I like what Bezos does for news enlightenment, but I don't like how he conducts business. Amazon monitors every second, literally, of a worker's productivity, which is excessive, and it causes injured workers who are not compensated appropriately. There is no way good workers can be in the zone with this kind of treatment, where they cannot even talk to coworkers for a few seconds at a time while working. This is terrible for morale. With this type of monitoring, Amazon's workers are treated as disposable. This also sets a bad precedent.

There's irony in how Bill Gates ripped off competitors and workers to be at the top, then he has one programs for giving back financially one the most to society. I saw Steve Jobs as some kind of obnoxious loudmouth psychopath. Bill Gate's abuse had less to do with his temper, and more to do with exploitation of workers, partners and competitors.

It's better to call them out on specifics, despite if they otherwise do good for society, which is often meaningless.

Why local people don't support local businesses?

This question has a lot to do with Walmart.

 

[ralphbsz]

My questions are: Are rich people buying on Amazon?

Because it's cheap and convenient. Latest example: I needed some garden stuff (a 4L = 1 gallon jug of herbicide, we needed to remove tall weeds for fire protection, and poisoning the plants first before mowing them prevents the roots from re-sprouting). Before jumping in the car, I checked the web sites for local big-box stores (Lowe's and Home Depot). Both in theory carried the herbicide, for $23 each. Neither of them had it in stock, not even by driving an extra hour (and driving 1.5 hours each way for a $23 jug of herbicide is insane). They had another brand though which cost over $50 for the same quantity. My wife quickly checked at the local small hardware/garden store: yes, they carried it, but it was about $100 for the same quantity (they only sell it in small bottles). In contrast, Amazon had it in stock, for the same $23 as the big-box stores, and with free shipping. So instead of having to drive 10 or 20 minutes to get to a local store (or 1.5 hours to get to one that actually has it in stock, or stopping at several small stores to get many small bottles), I didn't have to waste any time, and it showed up at my house two days later. And I didn't pay any extra for the convenience.

Why local people don't support local businesses?

Sure, we could all do that. By buying at a place that is expensive and inconvenient, you are wasting your own time (lots of extra driving), and you are throwing money away. In effect, that amounts to making a donation to the local store. So here is a more efficient and simpler suggestion: Order your stuff from Amazon. Then go to the local business and hand them a $100 bill as a donation ... just so they stay "in business", which means not selling anything to anyone.

By the way, just to be clear: There are many items for which local businesses work much better than Amazon. For example fresh food; clothes that need to be tried on; items where one needs personal advice and consultation; heavy and bulky items (buying a metric ton of gravel from Amazon is stupid, but that's something I go buy in my pickup truck); emergency or urgent supplies (like plumbing parts to fix a leak); service items (like a music store that also repairs instruments); and items that one needs to examine in person to figure out what they are. There is also the question of local retail as an "experience": some people enjoy shopping, and go to stores to have fun. But from an efficiency, cost and convenience point of view, using local businesses as a distribution / logistics mechanism is an idea whose time has come and gone.

P.S. What I forgot to mention: Before ordering anything from Amazon, I always look for other online sources; if I find the same thing elsewhere at the same price or a better price, Amazon is always my last choice. Because it has become so big that it is nearly a monopoly, and I'd prefer it to be less of a monopoly.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

John Naisbitt wrote a few books titled "Megatrends". These were not predictions but trends he would report on by reading hundreds or thousands of newspapers from around the world. By doing so, he stated--not predicted--that automobiles would be made and shipped to the USA, or built in the USA from parts made around the world, about 20 years before when everything was still made in Detroit. One of his last books talked about "high tech, high touch". This was before 2000. He said people would be ordering products online and have them shipped to their door or a local store. The problem with that was that people would still want to be able to see and touch what they were ordering beforehand. I don't recall if he stated a solution but I do think he said this is why brick and mortar stores will never go away. It gives the customer the chance to see and touch in person a product ahead of time to make sure it's what they're comfortable with. Of course, the issue with that is when you want it now and can't wait.

Another advantage of ordering online is the reduction of pollution. Rather than some number of people driving around town searching for a product, you just find it online and only one truck drives around town delivering all of them. Returns are what bothers me, though. I haven't gotten myself into the habit of ordering everything online, like clothes, because I don't want to have to pay for return shipping. I don't know where that stands at the moment. I once asked my wife but don't remember what she said.

The absolutely coolest experience I have ever had was renting a suit for my son's wedding. What kind of company sends you a thousand dollar suit for free to try the service with free return? Then, when you email a question about an adjustment on an early Sunday morning, calls you back within an hour to talk about it and offers to pay for you to take it to a local tailor.

 

[getopt]

More power to them.


One difference between france and germany: when the order is given for all males to be at the town hall on sunday to have their balls cut off to fight rape, 90% of germans would be at the town hall. In france, 90% of the town halls would mysterialy burn down...


(Maybe I'd also show up there, but I'd be kinda clanking when I walk)

There is no bottom for stupidity. And this is no more joke when a moderator is leaving necessary skills behind.

I could of course make biting jokes too about what is called "American Dream" and the broad absence of intellectual resources in contemporary populism, but I prefer not to.

Moderators *should* show exemplary behavior in writing, at least at some minimum standards. With all respects, you are failing here. Moderate yourself.

Crivens you are fueling a discussion with resentments on German and French people. Here on the FreeBSD forums there should be no place for dumb jokes on cutting balls and burning down town halls. In France two people died in what you want more power to them.

The FreeBSD forums is shared by people with a great variety of nationalities. We should not make dumb jokes here on the cost of any nationality.

Language is the most valuable asset we share. Do not let it deteriorate here. The FreeBSD should be kept free from violent, hatred and racist speech.

 

[aht0]

You will not find someone filthy rich or powerful who is not, in some part, a psychopath or worse. They had to reach their position somehow or at least stay there for the time being. So nothing to be surprised about.

Most people are said to be psychopaths to a degree. Some are just tad more. Psychopaths also are not entirely lacking empathy, it's usually sort of "off/on-switchable" at will. To give you rough example: you happen to be reading/hearing off some disaster somewhere, where bunch of people have died. You do think: "horrible" but not without really meaning it. Only when you focus yourself on them and try to imagine what any of the individuals had to feel - you start imagining the horror involved. For psychopaths that threshold of sensitivity is even further off. You can usually feel empathy towards people around you, they would have more trouble with it.

 

[scottro]

I used to try, when I had more money, to make at least one big purchase a year at BestBuy or J&R (which closed but should reopen) just to try to contribute to brick and mortar stores. Living in Manhattan, I am fortunate in that I can often see a product before buying. Both of them (BestBuy and J&R) would usually price match--yes, BestBuy is overpriced as a rule and their geek squad has done things like report what was on the hard drive to the police, but still, it is a place where I can go and look at something before buying.

Someone mentioned B&H, they also have a store not too far from me and they have always been very nice. Once they let me try out a USB to wireless adapter on a FreeBSD laptop I had because it was a situation where two models with the same part number, depending on chip set would work or not work.

But, much as Amazon is evil, it does look out for customers. I was trying to find a a Japanese version of a stupid anime. They had it on video but also had a DVD disk. I knew the DVD had both Japanese and English. I asked their customer service if the online rentable version had a Japanese audio. It didn't so the customer service rep gave me a credit for the cost of the DVD. (Which was relatively cheap, about 10 bucks).

So, yes, I do look for alternatives but I still buy from them. By the way, from what I hear from tech friends who work there, as a tech employee, it's apparently much better than it is for those described in the various articles, both warehouse and white collar workers. Not that makes them less evil but seems worth mentioning.

 

[sidetone]

It's not difficult to avoid Walmart. There are a few chains with lower prices. Some have their own name brands, which go from ok to great. Those small variety budget (mini-department like) stores have put a few Walmart locations of business.

Amazon is a little more difficult to boycott when it comes to older but more specialized replacement products. There are products that you can get from Frys, Microcenter, Target, Costco or Sears. I don't understand why for some, if its so easy to boycott Target (which I don't agree with the poor judgement that company made at one time), why it's difficult to boycott Walmart. There are even a few localized electronics stores, some owned by other chains. For books, if you haven't been disappointed by Barnes and Nobles' customer service, I often order from the book publishers.

I would still pay more to buy from stores that are more expensive than Walmart. Luckily, Walmart's costs are slightly higher than that of other stores. I'm aware of Amazon's practices, and I haven't bought from them in a while.

But, much as Amazon is evil, it does look out for customers.

That's because it's their business model how they make their money off of customers. Their workers are disposable, their customers aren't. If Walmart has proven similar to local economies, Amazon can take it up another step. Amazon can afford to lose customers who were once former employees, because they will have accounted for a small fraction of the population. Amazon can really crank it up, and people will still buy from them, because it was manifested by Walmart. Seeing how they easily boycotted Target, it shows selective outrage. Boycotting them is fine by me, but if you can easily do that, then why not boycott Walmart too. Those who buy from there shouldn't complain about their jobs going overseas, when they wanted to save a few dollars in the short term. About 40% of people don't buy from Walmart, more people will shop at Amazon, no matter what hits the news on their employment practices, until a formidable competitor comes along.

Some of those mom and pop hardware stores are annoying. They provide customer service, and sometimes that's convenient, but it's annoying when they try to make small talk or make jokes. Their prices are marked up for this.

 

[Deleted member 30996]

With ebay I get to buy from real people, can do business all over the world, choose the person I want to deal with by looking at their feedback from previous sales, deal with them personally if need be or have ebay back me if a sale goes bad and still get the convenience of home delivery. They own PayPal too so it's an easy purchase. Sometime easier and more palatable than going to Walmart if I can have it in 3 days.

Out of approx. 200 transactions 2 didn't go as smoothly as I would have liked, only one of which did I report because they were selling an HDD caddy that didn't fit and needed to contact their country "Ministry of Finance" for prior authorization to issuing my $7 refund.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

It's not difficult to avoid Walmart. There are a few chains with lower prices.

I always feel dirty going in there. Embarrassed I might be seen by someone I know. That said, I was looking for something a while back and didn't want to spend any money. Walmart was the only place that had it cheap. When I was there, I walked past Electronics and saw some cables I also wanted to get cheap. I was astounded they even carried them.

 

[sidetone]

The only justifications I can come up with for going to that store is if I need something late or at 2 am in the morning, like boots before work at 3 am, to needed items, to trivial stuff, which for me is rare, because I can usually wait a few hours, or an emergency item like a car battery within walking distance. As long as someone tries to go elsewhere first, that's usually enough, IMO. I was just venting, that's everyone's choice what they want to do, I just wish they realized the store doesn't represent what they say they support.

Some Walmarts are closed past midnight, others the gardening center closes after midnight. Because of this, they aren't a choice for me late at night.

Back to the topic, Amazon will do a lot that many don't like, and will have the ability to remain in business, for example like some of its predecessors have.

 

[ronaldlees]

The US was founded on the sky-is-the-limit, pie in the sky, rationale for living. Seemed good at the time, because there were no large multinational corporations. In 1928, just before the crash, there were still over a hundred different automobile brands. Now, that's competition! But, in a few hundred years, we have changed into a country where every single industry is dominated by one or a few players. Automobiles are easy example. At the level of three players, the small number of juggernaut companies can collude with a wink, and no paper trail is necessary. They can set prices as they like. So, that's how the top 1 percent have > 50 percent of everything.

It may seem draconian to some, but I think there should be an upper limit to how big a company can get. Once the big three entities in any particular field are entrenched, there is no longer any competition, really. We need the 124 car companies of 1928 again. Not three. The only real competition came from a few Asian countries (with devastating effect). The reason the US counterparts stagnated is that they had no real competition until then. Nobody needed to innovate.

Amazon isn't intentionally doing anything bad. They just got really good at internet marketing. But, they're so big and so good at it, that they make the barrier to entry like a cliff scale against machine guns. Impossible. Only the early entrants in such a game win. So, Ebay was early (not as early as Amazon) - and they are still operating. The answer I don't have is "how to scale them back". It will seem to be against the sky-is-the-limit philosophy. Unfortunately, the sky is the limit only for a few.

 

[sidetone]

The way it works is, a few companies of each category or niche will rise to the top, by luck, skill, hard work or ruthlessness, unless the markets are limited to geographic location. The markets are so that everyone wants what they think is one of the best of a particular niche, and eventually other companies don't sell as well. If there are 100 niches or micro-niches for each category, then it's possible for all of those companies to do well. The more competition there is, the lower the profit margins are. When it gets to the point, big companies are changing laws for their benefit at the disposal of the people and other businesses, and are getting tax shelters is where it gets ridiculous.

Generic medicine (especially where the patent expired) is cheap to manufacture, but it can be marked up from $3 to $1,000. When another company decides to sell that medicine for $500, the other one undercuts them by half, until finally, the prices are less than $20. Then the company that tried to create competition cannot make a profit selling that medicine for $4, while the other company takes the losses to run the competitor out of business. It doesn't work very well, because the competitor spent millions on research and getting approved by the FDA, only for the company that profited from the high prices to lower their prices to accept temporary losses to run the company that invested big out of business. If a non-profit or organization whose goal is to treat people steps in, then prices have the potential to become reasonable. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-01-19/why-hospitals-aren-t-in-the-drug-business

The only few who I've noticed that wasn't evil is Elon Musk, but he is eccentric and he does or says things that make him the target of criticism. He easily gets misunderstood. The owner of Borders was successful but was passive about competition (he let Amazon take care of his online book sales), so his company went under.

 

[ronaldlees]

Musk goes up against the big three, who are (understandably) upset about looking like luddite tech companies. Result? Attack from all corners: unions, state governments, Fed SEC, music biz people, environmental groups ... you name it. The reason such innovation as Musk delivers hasn't happened before is that 1) no "eccentric" willing to do it. 2) Most non-neo rich people know they will be rowing upstream against the "system". Notice how all the new stuff is from the neo rich, from people like Musk and Bezos. The others "know their place," so as to not be trampled. In a rigged game, the riggers demand true attention to the rules, because it's the rules that have been rigged.

Speaking of innovation, it shouldn't be pointed in the direction that it currently is, by any company. The focus needs to be innovation with the survival of the planet in mind. Don't see it happening, but the neo-rich are more inclined to lean that way.

 

[hrsetrdr]

You will not find someone filthy rich or powerful who is not, in some part, a psychopath or worse. They had to reach their position somehow or at least stay there for the time being. So nothing to be surprised about.

Most often the the route to material acquisition is traveled on the necks of the many.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

It should be pointed out that there are anti-competitive measures in place to break up companies that get too large and block competition. It happened to ATT, one of the car companies(?), and almost happened to Microsoft. The main problem is when one wants to compete with a dominant company that has done no harm. That is, a company that may own 90% of the market but is a good corporate citizen and does nothing to block others from entering the market. To say, no, you can't get bigger, means that company has no incentives for investment and hiring. It's anti-capitalism.

Of course, when one gets that big, it's easy to to think everything you do is for the good no matter what anyone else says and that's when they get themselves into trouble.

 

[Crivens]

I have thought long and hard about this.
Should I let this ad hominim slide past?

No. It would be a bad example.

First, you may be under the wrong assumption that I am from the US. I am not, and I was making a joke including me, because you see, I am also a German citizen. But I don't trust my government. And neither should anyone.

Second, I find your call for censorship ... interesting. GG Art 5 section 1 applies. Should I have misread this call for moderation, sorry, I am not a native speaker.

Third, yes, there have been causalities. That is to be expected when you protest on, by blocking it, an access road to a hospital. And then parents with sick children come into the equation, what do you expect? "Would kind Sir/Madam please step aside? I happen to travel with a sick/wounded/cramping child and we find us in a bit of a hurry? Jolly good! Thank you so very much."?

Having done exactly that, I can tell you that blocking such a road can be considered second rate suicide. So no matter how well founded your protest is, the moment you threaten the live of your next person with it, your credibility is void and you will face the law. Threaten the life of children, and you will face irrational and highly motivated parents. I'd prefer the law.

Fourth, language is most important, as you can learn from reading "1984", and that is why I not only oppose censorship, but also refuse to hand over the definition of meaning over to "well meaning people". You should do the same.

All in all, this has little to do with big box business entities getting away with what they do. So I apologize to the OP for wasting space on this thread. Should anyone have a problem with what I wrote, there is the PM option on the message and also a handy 'Report' button.

There is no bottom for stupidity. And this is no more joke when a moderator is leaving necessary skills behind.
...

 

[getopt]

Crivens, your rebuke shows your lack of knowledge on the FreeBSD Forum Rule 3 or willingness to apply it:

The FreeBSD forums aim to build and maintain a friendly and co-operative user community. As such, you agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, political, religious, threatening, sexually-orientated or otherwise divisive or combative material, or anything that may violate any applicable laws. Such posts will be removed without any warning and attempts to introduce material of this nature can lead to an infraction or you being temporarily or permanently banned from these forums.

As being moderator you not only missed to apply the rule prior to your post, but you joined in fueling politics instead of acting according to the rules.

I doubt your skills as a moderator because you obviously have a misunderstanding of censorship and free speech on the FreeBSD Forums. Here, like on any forums that have binding rules, the forum rules precede free speech as free speech includes all above what is banned by rule.

For this reason I call on reviewing this thread by other moderators.

 

[DutchDaemon]

Yeah, that was fun. Mind the squirrel when you back out of the driveway, everyone. Reddit Ave. is third on the left.