Solved laptop cpu fan & temp

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ksiu

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my t440p cpu is i5-4300M.

Perhaps my Thinkpad is newer (thinner),smaller, has less efficient passive cooling, than other Thinkpads. My Thinkpad has a large bottom cover, which is unique to this model...it only need remove two screws to open that cover to access the hardrive, Ram, wifi card, cpu fan, etc. Very convenient, but perhaps this design result in bad passive cooling.

Perhaps i should look for another laptop. the concensus seems to be that older Thinkpads are better than the newer ones. I like a bigger workstation-style laptop. I would think those have better passive cooling, since the case is much bigger, probably have bigger heat sinks.

i think maybe i can get a w520 or t520 Thinkpad. These are workstations with 15" screen. these are two generations older than my t440p.
 

Minbari

Aspiring Daemon

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Your CPU has 2W more than mine. A solution is to use a heat pipe made for T440p which has dGPU, it has more pipes or you could add some yourself.
e.g.
t440p.jpg

[FONT=verdana]A dual heatpipe heatsink for the IGP T440p[/FONT]

 

Mjölnir

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I don't know what cpu you have but for eg. T430 supports Ivy Bridge microarchitecture (35W-55W). So on my Lenovo T430 I have an i7 3612QM (4c/8t -35W) which run very "cold". What I did for this to get happen? Simple. I've placed the fan in manual mode, just like you did and then with a simple script [...]
👎 Please thoroughly & critically reconsider your decision to disable the built-in automagic fan control. See above: don't try to out-smart them wizzards & gurus.
  1. Your script is erroneous: it only checks the CPU temperature, whereas the built-in automagic reads the temperature from various sensors, e.g. other on-die logic circuits, on-die cache, RAM, SSD, MB, maybe some other chipset(s) external to the CPU die package, whatever. Your system has ~8 temperature sensors IIRC. I didn't check, but if vermaden 's script does also only check one temperature sensor, this applies to his script, too.
  2. If for any reason your or vermaden 's script fails, your system will quickly overheat.
    E.g. it doesn't get the input parameter(s): temperature because the coretemp(4) or acpi_ibm(4) module fails to load, or you accidently disable it, could be a plethora of reasons. In contrast, the built-in automagic is independant from the running OS (runs in UEFI/BIOS), hard wired to read the temperature from various sensors in your laptop.
The only modeling I did to the notebook was to replace the original fan with a Delta but not for thermal reasons but for noise. Delta are more quieter than the standard one. Also is good to use a low tdp cpu.
100% 👍 If only I knew about this before I bought a cheap crap fan for my old Fujitsu laptop... :/
...it only need remove two screws to open that cover to access the hardrive, Ram, wifi card, cpu fan, etc. Very convenient,
So here you tell a reason where a new model is better than previous models.
but perhaps this design result in bad passive cooling.
Do you have a dedicated GPU? IMHO that's only needed for gaming & certain 3D use cases.
Perhaps i should look for another laptop. the concensus seems to be that older Thinkpads are better than the newer ones.
Much of that is for psychological reasons because "everyone loves their children". We tend to develop kind of emotional relationship to the things we own, when they serve us well.
i think maybe i can get a w520 or t520 Thinkpad. These are workstations with 15" screen. these are two generations older than my t440p.
Then you have an older CPU & older technology, larger photolitography on-die & more external chipsets => much less energy-efficient. There are reasons to avoid Haswell, but IMHO everything from incl. Broadwell (aka "Haswell+") & above is reasonable. Since you like large laptops, you might find a FreeBSD-compatible gamer-laptop (consult list in wiki). These guys are keen for the brightest & newest and thus sell their old systems every two years or so. So there's a market.
 

Trihexagonal

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Much of that is for psychological reasons because "everyone loves their children". We tend to develop kind of emotional relationship to the things we own, when they serve us well.
No, much of that is due to the keyboard being changed after the Thinkpad W520 series to what most consider as inferior to the lower series.

How is it that all my laptops, 4-5 running FreeBSD at this moment, get by with just this?

/etc/rc.conf
powerd_enable="YES"
powerd_flags="-a hiadaptive -b adaptive"
 

vermaden

Son of Beastie

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👎 Please thoroughly & critically reconsider your decision to disable the built-in automagic fan control. See above: don't try to out-smart them wizzards & gurus.
  1. Your script is erroneous: it only checks the CPU temperature, whereas the built-in automagic reads the temperature from various sensors, e.g. other on-die logic circuits, on-die cache, RAM, SSD, MB, maybe some other chipset(s) external to the CPU die package, whatever. Your system has ~8 temperature sensors IIRC. I didn't check, but if vermaden 's script does also only check one temperature sensor, this applies to his script, too.
  2. If for any reason your or vermaden 's script fails, your system will quickly overheat.
    E.g. it doesn't get the input parameter(s): temperature because the coretemp(4) or acpi_ibm(4) module fails to load, or you accidently disable it, could be a plethora of reasons. In contrast, the built-in automagic is independant from the running OS (runs in UEFI/BIOS), hard wired to read the temperature from various sensors in your laptop.
Keep in mind that CPUs also have thermal throttling. This means that if CPU riches really high temperatures then it slows by itself to very low frequencies to cool down - it will not burn down. Its easy to observe on Raspberry Pi 4 for example if you do not put any radiators and/or fans on it.

I have written my script because the 'default' behaviour was quite illogical and erratic. It was more like 100% run when the temperature was about 55-60 and passive (or very low at 45). I wanted to have more granular behavior.

The custom fan script is not all things that I use. I also limit my 4C/8T CPU in W520 to just 1800 MHz because it is more then enough for me. I have shortcuts for 2300 MHz and 2301 MHz (Turbo) but I use them very rarely.

I also use just the integrated Intel card and have the Nvidia card disabled in BIOS.

Hope that helps.
 

Mjölnir

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No, much of that is due to the keyboard being changed after the Thinkpad W520 series to what most consider as inferior to the lower series.
I dunno about the W-series, as I always went with used/recycled business line T*.
How is it that all my laptops, 4-5 running FreeBSD at this moment, get by with just this? /etc/rc.conf
Code:
powerd_enable="YES"
powerd_flags="-a hiadaptive -b adaptive"
That's exactly the default settings, so you can just sysrc -x powerd_flags ;)

FYI irc://subcomandante@freenode#freebsd-* added "Chicago/US (Central (most areas))" to his desktop clock widget.
 

Minbari

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 295
Messages: 547

👎 Please thoroughly & critically reconsider your decision to disable the built-in automagic fan control. See above: don't try to out-smart them wizzards & gurus.
  1. Your script is erroneous: it only checks the CPU temperature, whereas the built-in automagic reads the temperature from various sensors, e.g. other on-die logic circuits, on-die cache, RAM, SSD, MB, maybe some other chipset(s) external to the CPU die package, whatever. Your system has ~8 temperature sensors IIRC. I didn't check, but if vermaden 's script does also only check one temperature sensor, this applies to his script, too.
  2. If for any reason your or vermaden 's script fails, your system will quickly overheat.
    E.g. it doesn't get the input parameter(s): temperature because the coretemp(4) or acpi_ibm(4) module fails to load, or you accidently disable it, could be a plethora of reasons. In contrast, the built-in automagic is independant from the running OS (runs in UEFI/BIOS), hard wired to read the temperature from various sensors in your laptop.
That "dangerous" script is controlling my notebook fan without any problem for the last two and a half past years. The only dangerous thing on my script is that it doesn't check/load the ibm module like vermaden script does. Beside, if the module fails to load, the notebook will reverse to a basic state, just like when acpi_ibm in not present on system.
 

Mjölnir

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vermaden IIUC, the kernel module's CPU throttling is disabled by default on amd64/x86-64 & i386 (can be enabled by hint.p4tcc.0.disabled="0" in loader.conf(5)), it is documented to be experimental code, although seems to work reliable on P-IV in most cases. Pretty outdated stuff. I don't know & hope that on modern CPUs, throttling is done in microcode or by the ACPI in UEFI/BIOS. Then, and only then, it is safe to override the automagic fan control. Still, if you run your silicone constantly slightly too hot, it will age & wear out quicker than necessary.
 

Mjölnir

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That "dangerous" script is controlling my notebook fan without any problem for the last two and a half past years. The only dangerous thing on my script is that it doesn't check/load the ibm module like vermaden script does. Beside, if the module fails to load, the notebook will reverse to a basic state, just like when acpi_ibm in not present on system.
And what if the coretemp(4) module fails? As I wrote: there's a plethora of reasons why such a script can fail. Once you disable dev.acpi_ibm.0.fan="0", you're trying to outsmart some engineer's well-tested & reliable stuff. That's dangerous. You can do it once you fully understand the risks, but please don't tell newbies & non-techies to do so as well.
 

Trihexagonal

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I dunno about the W-series, as I always went with used/recycled business line T*.
Too bad. You're missing out:

"ThinkPad W: High-end mobile workstations for CAD and digital art, supersedes the entire T series 'p' variants."

ThinkWiki

Here's mine that I keep offline as my .mp3 player with the following specs showing it at 59c. The palmrest and keyboard are cool to the touch.

FreeBSD 11.3-RELEASE-p3
Thinkpad W520
Intel Quad Core i7-2760QM (2.40GHz, 6MB L3, 1600MHz FSB, 45W)
8 GB RAM PC3-10600
Hitachi Travelstar 7K750 500GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
Nvidia Quadro 1000M with 2GB DDR3 and Optimus (in use)
15.6" TFT display with 1920x1080 (FHD) resolution with LED backlight

The hottest thing on there is Daliah Lavi in Il Demonio.

 

Minbari

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And what if the coretemp(4) module fails? ....That's dangerous.
We only live once! :D
but please don't tell newbies & non-techies to do so as well.

I did not say my solution is the best or do it like me, I've just shared my experience. Doing/undoing thinks, also broken things is experience. That's how you learn, especially when documentation is lacking or incomplete.
 

vermaden

Son of Beastie

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vermaden IIUC, the kernel module's CPU throttling is disabled by default on amd64/x86-64 & i386 (can be enabled by hint.p4tcc.0.disabled="0" in loader.conf(5)), it is documented to be experimental code, although seems to work reliable on P-IV in most cases. Pretty outdated stuff. I don't know & hope that on modern CPUs, throttling is done in microcode or by the ACPI in UEFI/BIOS. Then, and only then, it is safe to override the automagic fan control. Still, if you run your silicone constantly slightly too hot, it will age & wear out quicker than necessary.
I am not thinking about throttling that is controlled by FreeBSD. I meant the firmware controlled behavior no matter what OS 'wants' from the CPU at the time.

Its each person decision to either use the default fan speeds or to control them in their desired way.

For most of the time my CPU is at 42-45C. Sometimes it goes up to about 55-60C when I load about 35 Firefox tabs at once ... or when starting 3 virtual machines at the same time. I do not remember last time when it reached 70C.
 

Snurg

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Guys, don't worry about CPUs getting too hot.
Thermal throttling was introduced somewhere in the early Pentium I age iirc.

Nowadays it is almost impossible to thermally damage processors, except by blowtorching.
 

Mjölnir

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Religions, worst damnation of mankind.
"FreeBSD has always been the operating system that GNU/Linux should have been." Frank Pohlmann, IBM
BTW I'm looking forward for you to stop by at "off-topic -> BeaSDie's Mantra of the Week". Maybe occasionally you want to write a BMW, or add a subtle entertaining & humourous comment? But not next week, I promised to include Trihexagonal in the "prayer" and already have some ideas. So when you have a good BMW, drop me note (PM) so I will step aside & not post mine.
 

fernandel

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I dunno about the W-series, as I always went with used/recycled business line T*.

That's exactly the default settings, so you can just sysrc -x powerd_flags ;)

FYI irc://subcomandante@freenode#freebsd-* added "Chicago/US (Central (most areas))" to his desktop clock widget.
I am new in the laptop world. Thinkpad T495 is my first laptop in my life and after wiped Windows I installed FreeBSD 13.0-RELEASE. I start reading foums debates about power settings. I have just
Code:
powerd_enable="YES"
in rc.conf and , kldstat | grep acpi shows just acpi_wmi.ko which is default.
Everything works good (touchpad, trackpad, some FN keys...).
In /boot/loader.conf I have:
Code:
amdtemp_load="YES"
cpuctl_load="YES"
machdep.hyperthreading_allowed="0"
I am cnfused for the powerd flags. Looks like Trihexagonal default settings works. For now it works for me too but I do not know about fan speed anything. I built all ports and there were no problem with heat. Should I put acpi.ibm or/and acpi.video in /boot/loader.conf, please? Should I use script for fan?

Thank you.
 

Trihexagonal

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All I have is:

/etc/rc.conf:
Code:
powerd_enable="YES"
powerd_flags="-a hiadaptive -b adaptive"

That effects how much power drain is produced depending on if the laptop is plugged in or not to conserve energy when operating off the battery.

I have a couple that will overheat while compiling ports if I don't use the Oploar gaming fan while doing so. Other than that temp is never a problem with any of my laptops.

I don't do any editing of /boot/loader.conf except what's needed to get graphics when using a Nvidia chip.
 
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