Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

rusty said:
Recently seen it claimed (from systemd apologists) that BSD users should be 'for' a systemd system as it mirrors BSD design. They believe that Lennarts ideal of creating a base system under the governance of systemd is no different than what we have when using a base system with FreeBSD.
/bonkers
Click to expand...

Yes, I read it in comment on Reddit, I think. I disagree with such a statement. Systemd is antiunix binary blob, and *BSD is just analogy to any linux distro - complete OS. Apples and oranges. Web is full with rants (from both sides) like this one https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459 and articles like this one http://www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/systemd-harbinger-of-the-linux-apocalypse-248436?source=fssr - I am using on one computer Centos 7 (RHEL 7) with Gnome and systemd and it is buggy as hell (mostly GNOME though) - I hope RedHat loses customers, fire Lennart and find some sanity...meanwhile thanks to them *BSD's ranks could grow with broken-hearted Linux users.

P.S. I like the Unix philosophy: one program do one thing and it does it perfectly, but it doesn't mean that OS has to be clone of 30 years old system. I miss Linux's /proc on FreeBSD for example. I guess no OS can satisfy everyone.
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

osp said:
I miss Linux's /proc on FreeBSD for example. I guess no OS can satisfy everyone.
Click to expand...

Code: 
procfs			/proc				procfs	rw			0	0
linproc			/usr/compat/linux/proc	linprocfs	rw,noatime	0	0
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

DutchDaemon said:
osp said:
I miss Linux's /proc on FreeBSD for example. I guess no OS can satisfy everyone.
Click to expand...

Code: 
procfs			/proc				procfs	rw			0	0
linproc			/usr/compat/linux/proc	linprocfs	rw,noatime	0	0
Click to expand...

My /proc is empty (procfs is not mounted, so it has the same functionality as on Linux?), and linprocfs is something to fool emulated Linux binaries - am I right? On Linux /proc is the place where one can find everything about the running system and modify it in one place:
Code: 
% ls -1 /proc
acpi
asound
buddyinfo
bus
cgroups
cmdline
consoles
cpuinfo
crypto
devices
diskstats
dma
driver
execdomains
fb
filesystems
fs
interrupts
iomem
ioports
irq
kallsyms
kcore
keys
key-users
kmsg
kpagecount
kpageflags
loadavg
locks
mdstat
meminfo
misc
modules
mounts
mtrr
net
pagetypeinfo
partitions
scsi
self
sched_debug
slabinfo
softirqs
spl
stat
swaps
sys
sysrq-trigger
sysvipc
timer_list
timer_stats
tty
uptime
version
vmallocinfo
vmstat
zoneinfo
... (and directories for all running processes)
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

You're looking at an empty mountpoint. Put the procfs line in /etc/fstab and mount-a. Then you'll see stuff like this:

Code: 
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 .
drwxr-xr-x  21 root        wheel       512 Sep 16 11:09 ..
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 0
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 1
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 10
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1096
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 11
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1105
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1114
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1127
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1128
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1131
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1135
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1136
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 1139
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 1141
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1157
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1163
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1166
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1167
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1169
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1172
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1174
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1178
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1180
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1182
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1184
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1187
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1190
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1191
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1192
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1193
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1194
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1195
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 1197
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1198
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1199
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 12
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1205
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1219
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1226
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1228
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1229
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1234
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1236
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1237
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1239
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1248
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1249
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1250
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1251
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1252
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1253
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 1256
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 13
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 14
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 15
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 153
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 16
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 17
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 18
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 19
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 2
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 275
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 3
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 3205
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 3271
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 3281
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 3282
dr-xr-xr-x   1 _dhcp       _dhcp         0 Sep 16 12:36 331
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 3640
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 3648
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 3656
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 3657
dr-xr-xr-x   1 someuser    someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 3669
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 4
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 405
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 424
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 438
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 5
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 6
dr-xr-xr-x   1 unbound     unbound       0 Sep 16 12:36 693
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 7
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 751
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 779
dr-xr-xr-x   1 _ntp        _ntp          0 Sep 16 12:36 792
dr-xr-xr-x   1 _ntp        _ntp          0 Sep 16 12:36 793
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 795
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 8
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 802
dr-xr-xr-x   1 messagebus  messagebus    0 Sep 16 12:36 821
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 827
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 858
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 863
dr-xr-xr-x   1 smmsp       smmsp         0 Sep 16 12:36 866
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 870
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 898
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 9
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        someuser      0 Sep 16 12:36 938
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 939
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 940
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 941
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 942
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 943
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 944
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 945
dr-xr-xr-x   1 nobody      nobody        0 Sep 16 12:36 962
dr-xr-xr-x   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 980
lr--r--r--   1 root        wheel         0 Sep 16 12:36 curproc -> 3669

It may not be exactly the same (procfs(5)), but luckily FreeBSD doesn't do an 'echo file system'. It puts configurations in places like /etc and uses dedicated tools to query the running system and processes.
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

The FreeBSD's own procfs(5) is very rarely used/needed because the standard BSD utilities like procstat(1), vmstat(8) combined with sysctl(8)s and other sources happen to do good enough job in providing the necessary information and configuring the system if needed. The concept of the /proc filesystem is seen as an excess and bloat very much in here.
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

kpa said:
The FreeBSD's own procfs(5) is very rarely used/needed because the standard BSD utilities like procstat(1), vmstat(8) combined with sysctl(8)s and other sources happen to do good enough job in providing the necessary information. It's seen as an excess and bloat to have to use a filesystem for just gathering information about the system.
Click to expand...

Well, I sometimes used path to stdin/stdout of process (/proc/<pid>/fd/...) and use that as the file name - I think it is very powerful and versatile. However, Linux proc is not just a file system for processes, there are also exposed kernel variables and such which you can modify on the fly in very elegant way (/proc/sys/dev/raid/speed_limit_max, /proc/sysrq-trigger etc.) - I read that idea was inspired/taken from Plan9 OS.

[ Would you be so kind to format your posts from now on? You're causing the staff extra work, thanks. -- DD ]
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

@kpa addressed that. There are dedicated tools for that on FreeBSD, which have evolved over decades. Use them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

DutchDaemon said:
It may not be exactly the same (procfs(5)), but luckily FreeBSD doesn't do an 'echo file system'. It puts configurations in places like /etc and uses dedicated tools to query the running system and processes.
Click to expand...

Well, changes in Linux proc are not permanent, for these are /etc also (mostly), it is just for querying and modifying on the fly. But I have to say that many things on Linux are (best term would be czech "kočkopes") "mix of all flavours" - nothing is coherent, from configuration files and their placement to user-space tools.
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

kpa said:
The concept of the /proc filesystem is seen as an excess and bloat very much in here.
Click to expand...
It's also considered a security risk.
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

Please ask specific questions about the functionality you miss on FreeBSD and not about facilities/tools that don't exist for your unspecified problems. I sometimes get a headache when people try to solve a simple problem and cannot find a solution, because instead of telling what they want to achieve, they discuss all the problems they have with some exotic tools (and no one really knows if these tools are even needed).
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

osp said:
DutchDaemon said:
osp said:
I miss Linux's /proc on FreeBSD for example. I guess no OS can satisfy everyone.
Click to expand...

Code: 
procfs			/proc				procfs	rw			0	0
linproc			/usr/compat/linux/proc	linprocfs	rw,noatime	0	0
Click to expand...

My /proc is empty (procfs is not mounted, so it has the same functionality as on Linux?), and linprocfs is something to fool emulated Linux binaries - am I right? On Linux /proc is the place where one can find everything about the running system and modify it in one place:
Click to expand...

The FreeBSD equivalent to Linux' /proc and /sys is sysctl(8). It's so much nicer and easier to use than trying to muck around in sub-directories cat'ing out files.

On FreeBSD /etc/sysctl.conf is actually useful.
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

nakal said:
Please ask specific questions about the functionality you miss on FreeBSD and not about facilities/tools that don't exist for your unspecified problems. I sometimes get a headache when people try to solve a simple problem and cannot find a solution, because instead of telling what they want to achieve, they discuss all the problems they have with some exotic tools (and no one really knows if these tools are even needed).
Click to expand...
I learnt recently that some people call this The XY Problem. At first I thought it was a genetic illness… :D
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

osp said:
P.S. I like the Unix philosophy: one program do one thing and it does it perfectly, but it doesn't mean that OS has to be clone of 30 years old system. I miss Linux's /proc on FreeBSD for example. I guess no OS can satisfy everyone.
Click to expand...
/proc is coming from Plain 9 OS which created at ATT by the same people who created UNIX. I would be hard press to come up with the single technology that was introduced/invented in Linux first.. systemd? Not so fast. Check SMIT on AIX. Anyhow there is a really good read for people who do/don't like UNIX. UNIX haters handbood :) http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...MAXpufA2oiPU8z6a8x-fXpw&bvm=bv.75097201,d.aWw
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

phoenix said:
The FreeBSD equivalent to Linux' /proc and /sys is sysctl(8). It's so much nicer and easier to use than trying to muck around in sub-directories cat'ing out files.

On FreeBSD /etc/sysctl.conf is actually useful.
Click to expand...

Sysctl linux kernel use too :) But I admit, that I have to just accustom to how things are done on different OS - right now I was able to lock out myself from it completely :)
https://forums.freebsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=48081
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

Solaris has had SMF (Service Management Facility) since 2005 and AIX has always had SRC (System Resource Controller). I don't find Linux using systemd any different than what Solaris and AIX have.
 
Re: Is this true? I read this off putting text about FreeBSD

crashcoredump2 said:
I was determined to follow this guy:
Click to expand...

Except this guy is a gal. Her write up is very thorough and works very well.
Click to expand...

:) Now I look like a misogynist
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top