How do I even connect to the Wi-Fi on FreeBSD?

V

vladimirvili

After being dissatisfied with certain issues in Arch Linux, I've decided to migrate to FreeBSD. And the first thing that I miss is a good, easy to read and understand, adequate documentation. This leaves me in inability to use system in desirable way and I need help.
After installing OS, I've been prompted out to console menu. Common sense suggested installing Xorg and a windows manager of choosing, however, typing needed lines to execute installation brought me to an error, which I assume was caused by the absence of Internet connection. However, all the instructions that guide me to the Wi-Fi setup are either outdated or needlessly sophisticated(I connected to Wi-Fi without issues during the installation, after all). What must I do?
 
vladimirvili said:
I've decided to migrate to FreeBSD. And the first thing that I miss is a good, easy to read and understand, adequate documentation. This leaves me in inability to use system in desirable way and I need help.
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FreeBSD Handbook
 
SirDice said:
vladimirvili said:
I've decided to migrate to FreeBSD. And the first thing that I miss is a good, easy to read and understand, adequate documentation. This leaves me in inability to use system in desirable way and I need help.
Click to expand...

FreeBSD Handbook
Click to expand...
It's terrible and doesn't cover most of the issues in user-friendly manner, unlike the godly Arch wiki.
 
Perhaps FreeBSD is a little too much for you, the handbook is actually really good. Try PC-BSD, it may be more to your liking.
 
Why are you cherry picking a single argument? It's not even a relevant part of the argument - it is an introduction, something that has caused a problem, not something that you're supposed to even pay attention to. I am safe to assume that you haven't seen Arch wiki before, how it is organized compared to FreeBSD handbook and how ridiculously user-friendly it is, specifically considering the fact that both Arch and FreeBSD are distros with many similair approaches and target for experenced users - what is the point of even replying to that part then?
If you consider yourself good enough for FreeBSD then you obviously should know how to perform something as simple as connecting to the internet - why don't you tell me how to do this instead? Is it really anyhow harder than even pointing out FreeBSD wiki link, not even on the page stating my issue?
 
SirDice said:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-wireless.html
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Already read it.
Why does it needs to be that sophisticated albeit during installation I only had to pick my connection and enter password? Why would I need SSID and PSK, can't there be a way to simply launch that menu after installation instead?

SirDice said:
If you're getting errors, how about actually posting those errors? Or do you expect us to magically know why it's not working for you?
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Why? It's evident that my errors have appeared from the lack of Internet connection.
 
SirDice said:
vladimirvili said:
SirDice said:
If you're getting errors, how about actually posting those errors? Or do you expect us to magically know why it's not working for you?
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Why? It's evident that my errors have appeared from the lack of Internet connection.
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Because we're not clairvoyant and can't see what you are doing.
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Not exactly relevant to the issue, I am trying to connect to the Internet via Wi-Fi, preferably by bringing up the menu that was brought upon during installation process and I don't know how to, I will also need to use Internet later after achieving my original goal which I have also stated - installing Xorg. I have stated that I got error message since I have assumed that I will be connected to the Internet automatically, if that's what you're wondering about.
 
The screen you saw was just part of the installer, there's no easy to use GUI or TUI. This is FreeBSD, where you have to do pretty much everything by hand. If you're not up for that have a go at PC-BSD until you have a more clear understanding of how FreeBSD works.
 
SirDice said:
The screen you saw was just part of the installer, there's no easy to use GUI or TUI. This is FreeBSD, where you have to do pretty much everything by hand. If you're not up for that have a go at PC-BSD until you have a more clear understanding of how FreeBSD works.
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Jesus Chist, if you cannot tell me how to simply set up Wi-Fi then please stop responding, I am not looking forward towards using other distribution.
 
How's anyone going to be able to help you if you fail to provide even the most basic information? Like what wireless card you have, how it's currently configured, what exact error messages you're getting, etc. Like I said, we're not clairvoyant. There are a million and one reasons I can think off why it's not working for you. Nobody is going to write them all down for you.
 
@vladimirvili, I was at the point of offering some help, since I had to connect yesterday to my neighbour’s Wi-Fi after my ADSL broke, but you have scared me very quickly. What if my suggestions are not up to yours preferences and assumptions? How could I suggest you to read some documentation on ifconfig(), wpa_supplicant() or wpa_cli() if your Wi-Fi set-up does not corresponds exactly to mine? Call me a coward, but I tend to keep clear from people asking questions while holding spiky sticks.
 
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vladimirvili said:
What must I do?
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Post information relative to your problem.
Do what people suggest on here.
Be civil, nobody on here is paid to help you, we all volunteer our time.
If you are unable to, then I am afraid it is up to you to learn how to setup & use a computer operating system.
 
I notice there's nothing about
Code: 
scan_ssid=1
in the quick start guide. Would it work with a hidden wireless network? I just did a quick test, commenting the
Code: 
scan_ssid=1
out of my /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf file, and it didn't work. As Linksys, one of the most popular routers, has the hidden SSID by default, might it be worth adding mention of it to your Quickstart guide?
 
wblock@ said:
SirDice said:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-wireless.html
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There is a new Quick Start section that I added during BSDCan. The direct link is http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.IS...rk-wireless.html#network-wireless-quick-start.
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Thanks for that handbook enhancement! I'd not read that section in a while, and it really seems like it's becoming a polished reference for FreeBSD network configuration.

@vladimirvili

The old docs worked fine for me. It was a simple matter of copy/pasting a few text lines from the handbook to the config files. The difference between an automatic (hidden from the user) installation, and a manual one (that imparts a much nicer "feel" for what is really going on) - is a matter of a few minutes, or fifteen if there's oddball hardware involved. Admittedly, there's no "instant gratification" one button quick install for FreeBSD networking, but why would there be on a system that defaults to a text mode installation? It's definitely apples versus oranges.

FreeBSD is like a super high-tech bicycle shop I visited. They built the bikes for purist and racers. Often the patrons would bring detailed engineering drawings to the staff, and together with the staff they would hash out the details of the bike to be constructed. Coming from Walmart with the feature list for a bike, copied from the mass-produced, bargain priced bicycle tags at the big box store, would grant you no cred at all at this shop. If you weren't up to the jargon, you were in the wrong shop. I'm not saying FreeBSD is like that, or is that extreme. The forum here does a lot of hand holding. Yet, if you're looking for a one button install and a quick thrill, you probably ought to be at Walmart.

It sounds as if you've not really familiarized yourself with the package system, etc. What's strange is that you say you come from ArchLinux, which is not really the easiest Linux system. Surely, there you learned the ropes before crying foul? This sounds a little trollish to me....
 
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scottro said:
I notice there's nothing about
Code: 
scan_ssid=1
in the quick start guide. Would it work with a hidden wireless network? I just did a quick test, commenting the
Code: 
scan_ssid=1
out of my /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf file, and it didn't work. As Linksys, one of the most popular routers, has the hidden SSID by default, might it be worth adding mention of it to your Quickstart guide?
Click to expand...

None of the Linksys routers I've used had that, but I wouldn't put it past them. The problem with adding notes to the quick start is that it can easily change from a quick start, meant to be as short as possible, to a list of why pretend "security" features like hidden SSIDs really offer no additional security and should not be used.

If scan_ssid is discussed, it ought to be farther down in the details section.
 
Fair enough. I do find that my own documentation often gets overly verbose, so I'll bow to your judgement (as someone who constantly refers to your pages.)
Maybe I've just used older routers at home.

My one possible minor quibble would be that a quick start doesn't require a discussion about the merits of security by obscurity, but possibly just one line to the effect of
If your router has a hidden SSID then the line
Code: 
scan_ssid=1
may also be necessary.
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or something similar.
 
That adds a mysterious reference that raises questions without answering them: what is a hidden SSID? How can I tell if the router has one?

If we had a section on "hidden" SSIDs in the later detail sections, I could see the quick start referring to it. But, at present, we don't.
 
Thanks for the explanation. And, thanks for all the documentation you do provide, as I've said, I frequently make use of it.
 
vladimirvili said:
After being dissatisfied with certain issues in Arch Linux, I've decided to migrate to FreeBSD. And the first thing that I miss is a good, easy to read and understand, adequate documentation.
Click to expand...
Booo hahahahahahaha!!! Why is nobody telling me that it is a first of April :pP ?
 
Nah, I'll respectfully disagree with @Oko, with whom I usually agree (and whose posts have frequently helped me). Yes, the handbook is somewhat out of date in many places, and overly sophisticated in others, but, in my own personal opinion (the key word here is personal), the Arch Wiki also needlessly complicates the simple these days. Or, maybe I've just gotten dumber in my old age.

When one gets used to a certain style (of anything, including documentation) switching to another style can be annoying. I remember saying on a Linux forum that I felt pf was far easier to use than iptables, and someone else saying (nicely--it was a calm discussion between people who all knew and liked each other), that for them, it was the exact opposite, they found iptables very simple and pf to be needlessly complex.

Obviously, coming on a FreeBSD forum and saying, this stinks, something from somewhere else is better, is not the best way to get help---someone else phrased it well, saying such an aggressive attitude makes one not want to help--after all, what if I don't meet their expectations.

The Arch wiki does, in my opinion, cover basic install fairly well, but so does the Handbook. I haven't used either to set up my network in years, but a quick glance at the Arch wiki's section on wireless, struck me as being more overly complex than the Handbook. However, that's just my opinion.

The fact that, at least with the two cards I've had, Atheros and something else which I'm forgetting at the moment, one has to use ifconfig() to first create a wireless device might confuse someone coming from Linux. It's hard for me to say--many things are simple when we already know how to do it, the difficulty is in writing instructions for someone who has never done it before.
TL;DR
Regardless of what we think, the OP found the Handbook's instructions harder to follow than most of the posters in this thread. Regardless of what the OP might think, _I_ find the Arch Wiki far less clear and explicit than it used to be in the days when I used it frequently, though it's coverage of a basic install is still pretty good.
 
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scottro said:
Yes, the handbook is somewhat out of date in many places,
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+1

NetBSD and DragonFly BSD documentation leave even more to be desired.OpenBSD documentation (man pages really) is the best IMHO and the FAQ is regularly updated before every release. Nonetheless, even OpenBSD could use helping hands with documenting things.

scottro said:
and overly sophisticated in others, but, in my own personal opinion (the key word here is personal),
Click to expand...
I can believe this. After 7-8 years of daily reading BSD documentation most of the time for me it reads like the NY Times but on few occasions I had to post questions asking interpretation from people on the mailing lists.


scottro said:
the Arch Wiki also needlessly complicates the simple these days. Or, maybe I've just gotten dumber in my old age.
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Arch is a hobby system. As somebody who manages a bunch of Red Hat servers besides Open/Free/DragonFly servers I would never deploy Arch. Their documentation feels like a bunch of howtos written by beginners with occasional bright spots. I for example read several times their documentation on Unbound/NSD and KVM, and it was decent.

FreeBSD, like any BSD or Linux for that matter, could always use better testing, quality control, and more/better documentation.
 
"occasional bright spots". I used three printouts to install Arch Linux; revisiting its wiki just then, there was a "Installation" page (one of the three for a full install IIRC). So I plugged that search term into the FreeBSD wiki, no direct result (did not but visit the wiki a few seconds. though). Perhaps someone who uses both could emulate the better Arch Linux ones, revised, to be applicable to FreeBSD to make it more newcomer-friendly (notwithstanding the other method I mentioned a few posts ago.)
 
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