GNOME to have stronger dependency on systemd

cracauer@

Developer

"So what should distros without systemd do?
First, consider using GNOME with systemd. You’d be running in a configuration supported, endorsed, and understood by upstream. Failing that, though, you’ll need to implement replacements for more systemd components, similarly to what you have done with elogind and eudev.

To help you out, I’ve put a temporary alternate code path into GDM that makes it possible to run GDM without an implementation of userdb. When compiled against elogind, instead of trying to allocate dynamic users GDM will look-up and use the gdm-greeter user for the first login screen it spawns, gdm-greeter-2 for the second, and gdm-greeter-N for the Nth. GDM will have similar behavior with the gnome-initial-setup[-N] users. You can statically allocate as many of these users as necessary, and GDM will work with them for now. It’s quite likely that this will be necessary for GNOME 49.

Next: you’ll need to deal with the removal of gnome-session’s builtin service manager. If you don’t have a service manager running in the user session, you’ll need to get one. Just like system services, GNOME session services now install systemd unit files, and you’ll have to replace these unit files with your own service manager’s definitions. Next, you’ll need to replace the “session leader” process: this is the main gnome-session binary that’s launched by GDM to kick off session startup. The upstream session leader just talks to systemd over D-Bus to upload its environment variables and then start a unit, so you’ll need to replace that with something that communicates with your service manager instead. Finally, you’ll probably need to replace “gnome-session-ctl”, which is a tiny helper binary that’s used to coordinate between the session leader, the main D-Bus service, and systemd. It is also quite likely that this will be needed for GNOME 49

Finally: You should implement the necessary infrastructure for the userdb Varlink API to function. Once AccountsService is dropped and GNOME starts to depend more on userdb, the alternate code path will be removed from GDM. This will happen in some future GNOME release (50 or later). By then, you’ll need at the very least:

An implementation of systemd-userdbd’s io.systemd.Multiplexer
If you have NSS, a bridge that exposes NSS-defined users through the userdb API."



A bridge that exposes userdb-defined users through your libc’s native user lookup APIs (such as getpwent)."
 
Interesting. I do not use Gnome but i imagine that any FreeBSD users with Gnome will not like this idea. Seems like Gnome devs are RedHat subordinates that also work for Linus :) Personally, i never liked Gnome. I had Mandrake Linux back in the early 2000s and i mostly used KDE, which is really alot like Windows in design.

sounds like Gnome devs want Linux only users, which is fine by me. Xfce4 is my favorite DE for FreeBSD. I also don't mind xorg, openbox and lxpanel...
 
It's fortunate that one can escape from DEs to WMs. I feel like I will not be able to use any DE because advantages of WMs, don't have the need of a DE, though.
 
Either way there's a lot of work for port maintainers.

Some of the work seems to be sharable with non-systemd Linux distributions. Basically implement a small subset of systemd. Fun.

Does GNOME even work in a chroot on Linux? That doesn't have a systemd for itself either.
 
Are there even any other platforms than Linux and FreeBSD for GNOME?
honestly, i do not know the answer to that question. I simply meant that it seems like Gnome devs do not want Gnome installed in FreeBSD (initd).

I like to read Tech News daily and i see lots of so-called operating systems popping up but i know nothing about these systems, such as ZorinOS, LynxOS, RavynOS, PopOS, ReactOS etc. I do not research these systems.

nxjoseph I am starting to hate DEs lately. I'm getting annoyed with them and i find myself enjoying the simplicity of a window manager and xorg. I think that DEs are becoming more bloated and useless than helpful and general in design. Adding AI chips and apps isn't helping the matter - in my opinion.
 
Either way there's a lot of work for port maintainers.

Some of the work seems to be sharable with non-systemd Linux distributions. Basically implement a small subset of systemd. Fun.

Does GNOME even work in a chroot on Linux? That doesn't have a systemd for itself either.
Nobody uses chroot under Linux anymore. There is no jail (built upon chroot). People use containers (podman and OpenShift).
 
nxjoseph I am starting to hate DEs lately. I'm getting annoyed with them and i find myself enjoying the simplicity of a window manager and xorg. I think that DEs are becoming more bloated and useless than helpful and general in design. Adding AI chips and apps isn't helping the matter - in my opinion.
I kinda like KDE, but I don't use because I hate the bouncing animations under the mouse cursor, showing window contents when dragging and any kind of eye candy wastes CPU/GPU cycles for nothing. A lot you can disable, but not everything.

The only demand I make is screen font smoothing. All the rest, please, no.
 
I simply meant that it seems like Gnome devs do not want Gnome installed in FreeBSD (initd).
That's jumping to conclusions, namely that Gnome is actively doing something against FreeBSD. There is a much simpler answer: Gnome devs are Linux-centered and oblivious of other OSes that have a single-digit market share on the desktop. And they are improving Gnome by tightening the integration with systemd, which a very large fraction of all Linux system use.

I am starting to hate DEs lately.
A well written one is nice. I enjoy using both MacOS and Windows. But I'm more and more coming to the conclusion that work being put into DEs is solving a problem of the past. These days, a very large fraction of computing happens in the web browser. On my home machine, it's probably 50% terminal window, mostly running ssh to some remote server (where remote might mean: 20 feet away from me); 40% web browser, and 10% e-mail program. On my office machine it was 60% web browser and 40% terminal window running ssh; many colleagues used the ssh client built into Chrome though, and were running 100% in the web browser. A lot of prototyping and coding can get done in web-based development environments. There is a reason that high-end Chromebooks are quite popular among developers.
 
move your GUI from gnome to awesome .....it's better more .
Nah I like my mouse :cool:

As impressive as some of the screenshots look, that looks way too efficient and I'd probably be changing something every day to make it even more efficient somehow vs actual work :p https://awesomewm.org/

But it's more that I don't really want to learn a WM :p it looks way different than GUI floating windows. I'm used to resizing windows and positioning them, vs having shortcuts potentially do it, and also wonder if there's something more or less personal about that (I move windows where I want them personally, vs the WM allowing me to position windows to certain areas).
 
I'm a fan of the simple UI of GNOME Shell; but the UX is a usability nightmare. Other than the Dock/Taskbar UX from mainstream desktops; gnome2 was probably the only desktop that set itself apart with its dual panel UX. Thankfully we have a thriving community around a fork of it. gnome2 + nimbus theme is just a classic UX IMO. Given the other viable GTK based options out there; I think the greater community will be fine without GNOME Shell.
 
Nah I like my mouse :cool:

As impressive as some of the screenshots look, that looks way too efficient and I'd probably be changing something every day to make it even more efficient somehow vs actual work :p https://awesomewm.org/

But it's more that I don't really want to learn a WM :p it looks way different than GUI floating windows. I'm used to resizing windows and positioning them, vs having shortcuts potentially do it, and also wonder if there's something more or less personal about that (I move windows where I want them personally, vs the WM allowing me to position windows to certain areas).
yeah. the awesome can't move window as we want . that was one problem. but gnome don't publish to freebsd14.3 pkg. you can try kde .
 
That's jumping to conclusions, namely that Gnome is actively doing something against FreeBSD.
LOL. 'seems'. However, now i'm annoyed:

Sovereign Tech Fund gave Gnome Foundation 1 million euros in 2023 and deepening the dependency on systemd is very thoughtful of FreeBSD? you're a dim bulb today. devs know what systemd is and i'm certain that they know what initd is. These devs know their market stats and demographics and to imply otherwise is naive. Gnome info-collect added tons of data as well.
Gnome devs have chosen to develop for Linux. Interpret that however you like. Jumping hoops to make it work in FreeBSD is senseless.

also interesting is that the sovereign tech fund invested less money into FreeBSD
maybe the Gnome devs wanted that additional 684,000 that was given to FreeBSD Foundation instead.


it should be the other way around: more money for FreeBSD.
A side note: the FreeBSD Foundation announced better support for laptops and desktops in 2024. I guess that money is the great motivator afterall. so i wonder where FreeBSD would be right now without that investment.
 
For me there is no problem: I use GNOME only in Linux, and the only Linux I use is Debian. (In FreeBSD I don't use any DE at all, I use only twm) :)
 
Gnome devs have chosen to develop for Linux. Interpret that however you like. Jumping hoops to make it work in FreeBSD is senseless.
They made that choice like 20+ years ago, even back then it was untrivial amount of effort to get new gnome release to run on FreeBSD, no need for conspiracy theories now.
 
johnjohn context for "that choice" was "develop for Linux". Which btw makes perfect sense, given it originally had GNU in its name and even was a part of GNU for some time. That's a totally different thing than this recent tighter integration with systemd, which is merely an application of the decision to build software for Linux.
 
I'm a fan of the simple UI of GNOME Shell; but the UX is a usability nightmare. Other than the Dock/Taskbar UX from mainstream desktops; gnome2 was probably the only desktop that set itself apart with its dual panel UX. Thankfully we have a thriving community around a fork of it. gnome2 + nimbus theme is just a classic UX IMO. Given the other viable GTK based options out there; I think the greater community will be fine without GNOME Shell.

With fork you do mean the MATE desktop, right? It's boring... in a good way, and it's been my work horse DE since ages. Xfce comes second, but snapping is besser in MATE for me.
 
Just check the patch count required to make GNOME and/or MATE to work.

For GNOME to work on FreeBSD, there will be like tons of patches. I'd say it's effectively a reinvent of GNOME.

For MATE to work on FreeBSD, it's almost patch free, and that's the right attitude of showing support to other Unix-like OS.

So, the post from blog shouldn't be news to us, especially the porters who's actually done the job.

However, the overall Linux-ism and systemd-ism agenda is, indeed, very, very disgusting to be publicly announced that way.
 
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