FreeBSD updates ... or lack of them

oliverh said:
The need for such a project isn't a novum, just as the desperate cry for a stable ports-tree. But the real problem isn't the lack of ideas or a "stubborn foundation", which hoards money instead of investing it, it's the massive lack of manpower in different areas. You're talking about symptoms, it's time to talk about causes.

FreeBSD needs fresh Blood!

"/me want something ..." is a rather silly approach in Open Source and I'm not referring to you Vermaden, it's a more generic conclusion toward the crowd surrounding FreeBSD.

No, it is not. I regret you have missed the joke, but still:

FAQ section
"...We believe that our first and foremost “mission” is to provide code to any and all comers, and for whatever purpose, so that the code gets the widest possible use and provides the widest possible benefit..."

If the comers don't express what they want the mission is guaranteed to fail.
 
dbi said:
No, it is not. I regret you have missed the joke, but still:

FAQ section
"...We believe that our first and foremost “mission” is to provide code to any and all comers, and for whatever purpose, so that the code gets the widest possible use and provides the widest possible benefit..."

If the comers don't express what they want the mission is guaranteed to fail.

Humor is a fine aspect of daily life, but I don't get it in this context. Most FreeBSD newbies don't recognize the seriousness of the situation. Do you know the running gag of Slashdotters? "BSD is dying" ... well, it's indeed dying, it's just a very slow and painful process and it's impossible, because the code is open sourced, to release it from it's pain and finish this unworthy state. So we have no choice, we have to do something. Facta, non verba or like the credo of the OpenBSD crowd "shut up and code". Don't ask, help. Btw. this is my kind of humor in this context, to some degree at least.
 
"Shut up and code" is a good motto at first glance but...The community part that can code probably already does so. The bigger part can't code though. Let's say that someone following that motto learns C in 21 days :) and tries to code for the sake of community. The result would be of such quality that no patch will get accepted. The bottom line: one real developer with wasted time for reviewing badly written code instead of coding and one disappointed community member.

Imagine a music band that has invited some public in the studio for the recording of an album. While the band is playing at certain point some of the visitors start shouting “There! That note! You got it wrong!”. Here the fans start arguing “If you are so good why don't you get on the stage and play it by yourself”. So, what is the correct solution - the band plays the tune over and over until they get it right or they invite some of the visitors to play together?

"We want this and we want that" is a necessary feedback and it is a good thing. Don't discourage people from it.
 
>The community part that can code probably already does so. The bigger part can't code though.

Well, the same song again and again. This saying is an image, "shut up and code". The Latin phrase I mentioned above means "deeds, not words" and this is also the same meaning of "shut up and code". Do something, there is more than just code. They need people working on ports, on documentation, money, spread the word, test it and file PRs, etc. pp.

>"We want this and we want that" is a necessary feedback and it is a good thing. Don't discourage people from it.

Wrong, "we want it" isn't the credo of a _community_. We are talking of Open Source. You're talking about big business, like Microsoft, Apple, etc. You put your money in their mouth and at the same time you get something in return, like an operating system. You're the customer. In Open Source you're an active user, taking and contributing at the same time.

>While the band is playing at certain point some of the visitors start shouting

You're comparing apples with oranges. In Open Source there are active participants only. It doesn't matter how they are contributing, it's important that they do something. If you're living as a passive consumer then Open Source is surely the wrong place to stay.
 
dbi said:
"We want this and we want that" is a necessary feedback and it is a good thing. Don't discourage people from it.

What I would like to discourage is the tone of the original post. It's whiny and degrading to the people who put a lot of volunteer effort into the FreeBSD project:

vermaden said:
One thing that is pretty shitty about FreeBSD....

Gee, doesn't that phrasing make me feel like I'm encouraged to keep working on the project when I have users like this.

Seriously, please show some respect. Ask questions and tell us you'd like more frequent updates to existing release lines. I love having an engaged user base, but you need to do it with respect and maturity. Both are qualities that are lacking in the original post.

And just in case, I'd like to point out that these are my views. While I am a developer with commit privileges, this is my opinion; I don't speak for the Project, Foundation, or anyone other than myself.
 
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