FreeBSD is too much a a headache for me...

W

whaletosh

Notice I said for me, nor state that FreeBSD "sucks"

I have tried in vain to get a functional installation of some version of FreeBSD. I have tried FreeBSD, PCBSD, Dragonfly, Midnight, NetBSD, and GhostBSD. I am perfectly capable and willing to use the command line, as I have been doing since my first Commodore 64 computer. I have several years of experience with Linux, OS X, and iRix.

Here is what I want to do:

Install FreeBSD amd64, or a variant of it with a graphical interface.

I tried FreeBSD 10.2, which installed and booted fine. But when I tried to follow the instructions for getting X installed things just didn't work, as in the system would just complain about not being able to find the repository for the pkg(8); even if I tried the port form the local source. Strike one.

I tried PCBSD, which looked like it was installing fine. But when I plugged in my USB wireless adapter the system got broke. It crashed and upon boot up it would hang when trying to initialize the network adapters. Removing the USB wireless adapter with the computer power off made things worse. Strike 2

I tried Dragonfly. I was able to get it installed and configured to have a graphical interface, ONCE. Upon rebooting it stayed at the cli and refused to launch the GUI. Strike 3

I tried NetBSD. It installed, but complained about not being able to find repositories, and missing files. Strike 4

I tried Midnight, same as NetBSD. Strike 5

Finally, I installed GhostBSD with XFCE. It installed and worked great. Until I used Octopkg to install Kicad. All of a sudden, several programs wouldn't launch because of an our dated SQLite. Octopkg would not launch from the menu or a terminal, even with the root account. Running pkg from a CLI only resulted in complaints about missing files and not being able to find repositories. Strike 6

I realize that this is a forum about FreeBSD, and that the other variants have their own forums. But the common thread amongst all these problems is that what should be a simple, straight forward process isn't. As I stated I can use a CLI to get things installed and running. But only if the instructions in the handbook actually work. If the handbook for FreeBSD states to install Xorg:
Code: 
# cd /usr/ports/x11/xorg
# make install clean

OR

# pkg install xorg

I cut and pasted the lines into a shell as root, not including the # of course, and the installation failed almost immediately because of missing files and inability to fetch the files because the repository URL couldn't be resolved. I could understand this I was trying to install an old release, but this happened with FreeBSD 10.2 on a blank hard drive

All of the other attempts were made with new partition tables and partitions, including the boot sector being overwritten.


I also realize that the people who support FreeBSD and the other variants get paid very little if anything for their efforts. Most of them have real jobs, families, friends, other hobbies, etc. So, I can't really complain.

Usually, post like this get responses suggesting to read this or learn that. That the poster should search the forums and internet for solutions (which I did). To install this or configure that. This is precisely my point; this is too much hassle for me. I wanted to try FreeBSD because I wanted more security than Linux. A brand new installation shouldn't need that much work just get it up and running. I have installed OS X and Linux literally hundreds of times. None of them have been this much work (not that OS X is much of a challenge to get installed).

Thanks for letting vent, I really hoped FreeBSD was going to work out. I know it has for many people, I am just not one of them.
 
whaletosh said:
Install FreeBSD amd64, or a variant of it with a graphical interface.

I tried FreeBSD 10.2, which installed and booted fine. But when I tried to follow the instructions for getting X installed things just didn't work, as in the system would just complain about not being able to find the repository for the pkg(8); even if I tried the port form the local source. Strike one.
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm a newbie in FreeBSD too, I have only two months using FreeBSD 10.2 and use XFCE for my daily tasks and unless that I'm an alien, install FreeBSD for me was not more difficult to install Debian on my machine (using netinstall+apt). If you had some detail to complete the task , it will be mostly a problem for hardware support or failures following the installation process.

whaletosh said:
I tried PCBSD, which looked like it was installing fine. But when I plugged in my USB wireless adapter the system got broke. It crashed and upon boot up it would hang when trying to initialize the network adapters. Removing the USB wireless adapter with the computer power off made things worse. Strike 2
Click to expand...

I don't know PCBSD, but is a derivative from FreeBSD, and for your experiencies, maybe thats errors are related to a problem with your hardware support.

¿Are you checked that your hardware is full supported by FreeBSD 10?

whaletosh said:
I tried Dragonfly. I was able to get it installed and configured to have a graphical interface, ONCE. Upon rebooting it stayed at the cli and refused to launch the GUI. Strike 3

I tried NetBSD. It installed, but complained about not being able to find repositories, and missing files. Strike 4

I tried Midnight, same as NetBSD. Strike 5
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I smell a pure error of layer 7.

whaletosh said:
Finally, I installed GhostBSD with XFCE. It installed and worked great. Until I used Octopkg to install Kicad. All of a sudden, several programs wouldn't launch because of an our dated SQLite. Octopkg would not launch from the menu or a terminal, even with the root account. Running pkg from a CLI only resulted in complaints about missing files and not being able to find repositories. Strike 6
Click to expand...

I don't know the stability for GhostBSD.

whaletosh said:
I realize that this is a forum about FreeBSD, and that the other variants have their own forums. But the common thread amongst all these problems is that what should be a simple, straight forward process isn't. As I stated I can use a CLI to get things installed and running. But only if the instructions in the handbook actually work. If the handbook for FreeBSD states to install Xorg:
Code: 
# cd /usr/ports/x11/xorg
# make install clean

OR

# pkg install xorg

I cut and pasted the lines into a shell as root, not including the # of course, and the installation failed almost immediately because of missing files and inability to fetch the files because the repository URL couldn't be resolved. I could understand this I was trying to install an old release, but this happened with FreeBSD 10.2 on a blank hard drive
Click to expand...

Have you tried to have an Internet connection? Solving problems of Internet addresses related to the correct network configuration you use, whether wireless or cable. Check that issue first.

In my case, using

# pkg install xorg

and not problems.


whaletosh said:
All of the other attempts were made with new partition tables and partitions, including the boot sector being overwritten.

I also realize that the people who support FreeBSD and the other variants get paid very little if anything for their efforts. Most of them have real jobs, families, friends, other hobbies, etc. So, I can't really complain.

Usually, post like this get responses suggesting to read this or learn that. That the poster should search the forums and internet for solutions (which I did). To install this or configure that. This is precisely my point; this is too much hassle for me. I wanted to try FreeBSD because I wanted more security than Linux. A brand new installation shouldn't need that much work just get it up and running. I have installed OS X and Linux literally hundreds of times. None of them have been this much work (not that OS X is much of a challenge to get installed).

Thanks for letting vent, I really hoped FreeBSD was going to work out. I know it has for many people, I am just not one of them.
Click to expand...

That pay is a reality that is also repeated in Linux, many employees are paid little or nothing, is not a rare thing, but that has not stopped the development and evolution of these systems, since the motivations for contributing they are many and different.
 
I don't understand the point of this post. Is this a confessional of his shortcomings? His second attempt, and especially his third, have nothing to do with installing FreeBSD so are off topic here. That people install FreeBSD coming from Linux and Windows and come here to talk about it almost every day shows this is a non-issue.

whaletosh FreeBSD is a professional operating system for professionals and serious amateurs. Obviously it's not for you.
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: Oko
whaletosh said:
I tried FreeBSD 10.2, which installed and booted fine. But when I tried to follow the instructions for getting X installed things just didn't work, as in the system would just complain about not being able to find the repository for the pkg(8); even if I tried the port form the local source. Strike one.
Click to expand...
This sounds like something as simple as using the wrong DNS settings.
But the common thread amongst all these problems is that what should be a simple, straight forward process isn't.
Click to expand...
No, I'm sorry but the common thread here is that you failed to configure basic networking.
I cut and pasted the lines into a shell as root, not including the # of course, and the installation failed almost immediately because of missing files and inability to fetch the files because the repository URL couldn't be resolved.
Click to expand...
Dude, you're going to let something as simple as a DNS setting prevent you from trying FreeBSD? If you really can't fix something as basic as this then I'm afraid I'd have to concur, FreeBSD is not for you.
 
Somebody who installed OS hundred times should not be bitten by something as trivial as networking misconfiguration. However we can't say what may be the problem until you provide us with more information.

On side note - the DVD installation medium contains some precompiled packages including some desktop environment. If you have problems with installation over network but still want to try and feel the FreeBSD, you may start this way.
 
whaletosh said:
I am perfectly capable and willing to use the command line, [...] I have several years of experience with Linux, OS X, and iRix.
Click to expand...
From what I have read, I can hardly believe it

whaletosh said:
the common thread amongst all these problems is that what should be a simple, straight forward process isn't [...]
I cut and pasted the lines into a shell as root [...]
this is too much hassle for me [...]
I wanted more security than Linux [...]
A brand new installation shouldn't need that much work just get it up and running
Click to expand...

 
whaletosh said:
Usually, post like this get responses suggesting to read this or learn that. That the poster should search the forums and internet for solutions (which I did). To install this or configure that. This is precisely my point; this is too much hassle for me.
Click to expand...

Kudos for putting a lot of work into trying. I understand your frustration. It seems to me though that if you have lots of experience installing Linux then you would find very little difficulty here. It might have been easier for you if you had asked for some help at an earlier stage. It's probably just some little thing, perhaps a wrong assumption, which is causing your troubles.
 
Could it be that his DNS might well be fubared by the router he has? So it might not even be his fault. Some more investigation is certainly in order. Rightout saying it's his own fault is, IMHO, a bit far fetched.
 
whaletosh said:
I have tried in vain to get a functional installation of some version of FreeBSD. I have tried FreeBSD, PCBSD, Dragonfly, Midnight, NetBSD, and GhostBSD.
Click to expand...
Note that DragonflyBSD, MidnightBSD and NetBSD are different OSes from FreeBSD.
  • Both DragonflyBSD and MidnightBSD are forks, so even if they had something in common with FreeBSD originally, this now is not true anymore.
  • NetBSD shares its origin with FreeBSD (both descend from 386BSD), but now they are totally different.
So, for problems related to this OSes you should ask on their support channels to get help. They know their creatures better, and can support you better. ;)
 
Maxnix said:
Note that DragonflyBSD, MidnightBSD and NetBSD are different OSes from FreeBSD.
  • Both DragonflyBSD and MidnightBSD are forks, so even if they had something in common with FreeBSD originally, this now is not true anymore.
  • NetBSD shares its origin with FreeBSD (both descend from 386BSD), but now they are totally different.
So, for problems related to this OSes you should ask on their support channels to get help. They know their creatures better, and can support you better. ;)
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with DragonFlyBSD
Code: 
dfly# uname -a
DragonFly dfly.bagdala2.net 4.4-RELEASE DragonFly v4.4.2-RELEASE #3: Sun Feb 14 21:46:21 EST 2016  root@www.shiningsilence.com:/usr/obj/home/justin/release/4_4/sys/X86_64_GENERIC  x86_64
dfly# 

dfly# ifconfig
re0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
  options=1b<RXCSUM,TXCSUM,VLAN_MTU,VLAN_HWTAGGING>
  inet6 fe80::baae:edff:fe3c:ce35%re0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
  inet 192.168.3.2 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.3.255
  ether b8:ae:ed:3c:ce:35
  media: Ethernet autoselect (1000baseT <full-duplex>)
  status: active
faith0: flags=8002<BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
  options=3<RXCSUM,TXCSUM>
  inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
  inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
  inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
ppp0: flags=8010<POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
sl0: flags=c010<POINTOPOINT,LINK2,MULTICAST> mtu 552
 
Quoting the first and last lines of my post

"Notice I said for me, nor state that FreeBSD "sucks""
"Thanks for letting vent, I really hoped FreeBSD was going to work out. I know it has for many people, I am just not one of them."

I was trying to state that I was in no way knocking FreeBSD, or the the developers and users of it. I have seen many forums where a poster starts out by being insulting of the software. I am just frustrated at what I thought was going to be an easy installation, as stated on the About FreeBSD page; "Easy to install FreeBSD can be installed from a variety of media including CD-ROM, DVD, or directly over the network using FTP or NFS. All you need are these directions." I followed the instruction on installations exactly.


"Is this a confessional of his shortcomings?" To a certain degree, yes. I really have installed various operating system, hundreds of times. This includes several times using a cli net install of Linux. I had a lot of learning and frustration when teaching myself the innards of Linux. I guess my shortcoming in this instance is failing to realize there might a greater learning curve than I expected to install FreeBSD. I guess I assumed that my experience Linux would have prepared me better than it did. I am probably getting a little lazy as well.


"whaletosh FreeBSD is a professional operating system for professionals and serious amateurs. Obviously it's not for you." Exactly, which is what I thought I stated at the end of my post. I am probably getting a little lazy as well.

I also stated that the developers ad maintainers of FreeBSD work very hard for little or nothing for compensation. This is true for most of the Linux world as well. I was trying to acknowledge all that hard work. I am grateful there are people out there that make it possible for me to use Windows when only absolutely necessary, eg. my USB oscilloscope which only runs under Windows.

I know that the network configuration is the most likely the problem. I am installing this at my work place during my lunch hour and breaks; our firewall could be to blame. I can't check that as I don't work in the IT department. Most likely the network card is not configured properly, despite setting it correctly during the installation process. But if I can't get the system booted then I can't correct the configuration, one of those chicken/egg scenarios. I could use the live-cd to boot and fix the configuration on the hard disk, but reinstalling is easier. If had the system already up and running using the Live CD would make more sense.

The point of my post was to vent, which I stated. I thought I made it clear that I wasn't criticizing FreeBSD or anybody connected with it. FreeBSD has a great reputation. It is just not working FOR ME as easily as I hoped. I can understand attacking a new user who starts off by criticizing FreeBSD. Did I ever once state that FreeBSD is a crappy operating system? Did I ever once state that FreeBSD doesn't work well for anybody? Did I ever state that I expected the FreeBSD community to spoon feed me the information needed or solve the problems for me? In fact I never asked for help at all. I didn't expect to be attacked, as I was simply stating MY opinion about MY experience with trying to get a BSD system installed.

For those of you that actually gave some advice, thank you. Here are the specifics of my hardware:

Dell Precision T3500 workstation. The mobo is Intel based with quad core Xeon proccessor, 12 GByte of RAM, a 150 GByte hard drive with Windows 7 on it, a 250 GByte hard drive which is the target drive for the BSD system. The boot loader for the BSD instillation gets installed on the 250 Gbyte hard drive, leaving the boat loader for Windows 7 untouched. I can change the boot disk simply by pressing F12 at start up. The e-net is a Broadcom built into the mobo. I had my reasons for tying a USB wifi adapter, but will leave it out of the equation in the future. The video card is an AMD/ATI Radeon. There isn't anything in the system that is exotic or a no name knock off.

I am installing from the DVD. I am going to make another attempt. Maybe things will go better the second time around. If they don't then I can return to Linux and make it as secure as I can and still be able to reasonably use it.
 
... i smell a squid being in the way. Direct network access is most likely not possible. You may as well ask the IT department. If they are worth a tiny bit, they by now already know of your attempts and problems. If they will admit that, is another question.
 
whaletosh said:
I know that the network configuration is the most likely the problem. I am installing this at my work place during my lunch hour and breaks; our firewall could be to blame. I can't check that as I don't work in the IT department. Most likely the network card is not configured properly, despite setting it correctly during the installation process. But if I can't get the system booted then I can't correct the configuration, one of those chicken/egg scenarios.
Click to expand...
Not having a working network should not prevent FreeBSD from booting. You only mentioned not being able to install ports and packages on FreeBSD. You didn't mention you were unable to boot it in the first place. If you can't boot you obviously can't change settings. But if it does boot it should be fairly easy to diagnose the network. It shouldn't be a reason to reinstall in any case.
 
Oko said:
There is nothing wrong with DragonFlyBSD
Code: 
dfly# uname -a
DragonFly dfly.bagdala2.net 4.4-RELEASE DragonFly v4.4.2-RELEASE #3: Sun Feb 14 21:46:21 EST 2016  root@www.shiningsilence.com:/usr/obj/home/justin/release/4_4/sys/X86_64_GENERIC  x86_64
dfly#

dfly# ifconfig
re0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
  options=1b<RXCSUM,TXCSUM,VLAN_MTU,VLAN_HWTAGGING>
  inet6 fe80::baae:edff:fe3c:ce35%re0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
  inet 192.168.3.2 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.3.255
  ether b8:ae:ed:3c:ce:35
  media: Ethernet autoselect (1000baseT <full-duplex>)
  status: active
faith0: flags=8002<BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
  options=3<RXCSUM,TXCSUM>
  inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
  inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
  inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
ppp0: flags=8010<POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
sl0: flags=c010<POINTOPOINT,LINK2,MULTICAST> mtu 552
Click to expand...

Yeah, surely there is nothing wrong. :)
I was referring to the fact that DragonFlyBSD internals are different from FreeBSD's ones, being DragonFly born to give FreeBSD 4.x a different direction from the one token for FreeBSD 5.

So even if the GUI problem stated by OP could be a Xorg or DE related problem, asking on DragonFly channels can be more useful.
 
whaletosh said:
I guess my shortcoming in this instance is failing to realize there might a greater learning curve than I expected to install FreeBSD.
Click to expand...
The thing is that it is not hard to install FreeBSD. You are wrong about that. At least for someone who has installed Linux before, there is not a great learning curve. You seem to be stuck on something which has nothing to do with FreeBSD. If you asked for help (and you still can) you are quite capable of getting any of the BSDs to work. My suggestion is that you try to overcome what seems to be a mental block and move on to asking for help. I'm sure you can do it.
 
Nowadays, when people say they have Linux background, that may mean they've installed a recent Ubuntu. That gives them the same level as my grandma, who can do the Ubuntu install more readily than Windows. Kidding.

FreeBSD is not hard to install, but it's definitely not a Ubuntu style set-up, especially if the OP is using off-the-track video hardware ...
 
About 15 years ago the saying was
Code: 
Even a chicken can install Debian. Just keep picking <Enter> all the time.
I have experienced this on FreeBSD, too when trying ZFS-on-root on a spare PC with ECC RAM I got from a colleague . Nothing exciting, it just worked. No new playground. For my use case it is perfect for backup.

Configuration with a difficult hardware can be different story. This includes X. Therefore proceed step by step. Then each step you take is a success.
Crivens said:
You may as well ask the IT department. If they are worth a tiny bit, they by now already know of your attempts and problems.
Click to expand...
Crivens is right. Can you try it from home? In best case with a spare ancient PC or a spare disk in the current PC. Then you might have more time and everything is under your control. And take some time.
 
OK, OK, the problem was related to the network connection. For some unexplained reason it is working today. I have FreeBSD installed, xorg installed and running fine, and Xfce4 installed and running. There are still some kinks to work out in the Xfce4 installation, such as when going to the log out screen, logging out is the only option the rest are dimmed out such as shutdown and reboot. The main stumbling block for me is after I installed xdm and configured the system to use it's gui login I can't log in. I type my user name and password, the screen goes blank for a second, then goes back to the xdm login screen. I am certain that there must be something wrong in my ~/.xsession or ~./xinitrc files. I was able start Xfce4 at the CLI with startx before the installation of XDM. I was able to reboot, go into single user mode, remount the / filesystem as writable, and use vi(1) to edit the rc.conf and ttys files in /etc. Now I am back to starting with a CLI login and can start Xfce4 again from the CLI with startx.

At this point I could use some help:

Figuring out why the the XDM GUI login doesn't work. It is the most pressing issue.

My ~./xinitrc file:

Code: 
exec /usr/local/bin/startxfce4  --with-ck-launch


My ~./.xsession file:

Code: 
#!bin/sh
exec /usr/bin/startxfce4  --with-ck-launch

Both files are set as executable.

I know I need to make some adjustments in the /etc/rc.conf and /etc/ttys files. In the rc.conf file I added "xdm enable="YES", which is currently commented out. In the ttys file I changed the line "ttyv8 "usr/local/bin/xdm --nodaemon" xterm off secure" to "ytyv8 "usr/local/bin/xdm --nodaemon" xterm on secure" ; but changed it back.
 
If you run X via startx, someone who walks up to your desk and manages to kill your X session or switch to virtual terminals gets a shell with your account logged in. Starting X via XDM (or whatever login manager you prefer) prevents this.

whaletosh, have you looked at the XDM configuration files in /usr/local/lib/X11/xdm? xdm(1) is long, but well documented.
 
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