fonz said:(...) besides a niftier look, what would be the advantage(s) of a GUI installer? It may look spiffier (and thus more inviting), but I don't see how it would actually make the installation any easier.
You mean something like x11/xdialog?ondra_knezour said:I am playing with idea to implement some graphics dialog-like tool using the vgl() library, which can by used by bsdinstall() to do the installation in the graphics mode,
fonz said:You mean something like x11/xdialog?
For me it's about speed and accuracy. Sometimes it's quicker to type a short command, but sometimes it's easier and quicker to pick from a drop-down menu instead of typing two lines of text that gets fat fingered - <click> <scroll> <click> <click> is faster than typing two lines of text: slapping your forehead because you left off either more text or messed up a switch; scroll up and hit enter and realizing you forgot to fix what you were supposed to; scroll up again and scrolling to the spot in the middle of the first line where the change is supposed to go and then hitting Enter.ondra_knezour said:You will get a bigger screen and better layout manager - no big gain for a regular FreeBSD user, but useful for displaying more information about what will be done and why, which can be helpful especially for new users.
But that's not something exclusive for a graphical user interface, the same can be achieved on a text screen.tzoi516 said:For me it's about speed and accuracy. Sometimes it's quicker to type a short command, but sometimes it's easier and quicker to pick from a drop-down menu instead of typing two lines of text that gets fat fingered
However, when during a typical (or any) FreeBSD installation does one need to type such long and/or complicated commands? I've been looking over my notes for a complicated manual install with GELI and jails, but I can't find anything like that.tzoi516 said:but sometimes it's easier and quicker to pick from a drop-down menu instead of typing two lines of text that gets fat fingered
Not to sidetrack the discussion, but... I had a Samsung Galaxy but hated it with passion, so I ditched it and instead got a GT-B2710 - it has normal keys and no effing touch screen. FWIW: I'm not 50 years old yet, I'm far from bald and although I can be romantic at times I sure wouldn't call myself a hippietzoi516 said:It's like having a physical keyboard on your phone - some people are used to that tactile feedback and act like that 50 year-old balding hipping [You meant hippie I presume? -- fonz] that hates the GUI and won't update their phone until they drop it in the toilet. But once they get used to typing on the screen then they begin to understand the form factor and options that make sense
ShelLuser said:But that's not something exclusive for a graphical user interface, the same can be achieved on a text screen.tzoi516 said:For me it's about speed and accuracy. Sometimes it's quicker to type a short command, but sometimes it's easier and quicker to pick from a drop-down menu instead of typing two lines of text that gets fat fingered
Quite frankly it's what's already present. For example; during a network installation you need to select the media which you want to use, and sometimes also the location of the repository. All of that is done using a menu. Not so much a drop down menu, but still a selection which you can navigate through (using the arrow keys or page-up / page-down) and hit enter when you're satisfied.
I think you articulated it better than I did - I don't have time to write a novel with examples. Speed can be anything from having a ready reference in the menu to having an interactiveShelLuser said:For example the option I mentioned above; press F1 for help. Or the option to do something else during the installation (as is somewhat the case with some Linux live cd's which also provide an installation function).
man
, or having side-by-side terminals up without having to alt-F-key it - which makes it even harder to not fat-finger. "People, use your imagination." - Barney the Dinosaurandreyves said:So what I really want to show here is that first I am a power user, I am aSys Adminsysadmin and I am able to doalota lot to get stuff working, but what FreeBSD is missing out on, as well as Linux, is to get it working for the losers.
Which reminds me, I used to have (something very much like) the following in my ~/.signature:ShelLuser said:But that's not something exclusive for a graphical user interface, the same can be achieved on a text screen.tzoi516 said:For me it's about speed and accuracy. Sometimes it's quicker to type a short command, but sometimes it's easier and quicker to pick from a drop-down menu instead of typing two lines of text that gets fat fingered
How do I typefor foo in *.jpg; do convert -resize 200x200 $foo `echo $foo|sed -e s/jpg/png`; done
in a GUI?
That's your experience. How does your experience translate to "all" users, not ones that work in the same manner as you do? For me I get thrown a laptop with no manuals and have to customize it to the user all of the time (modifications range from extreme security to a ton of applications, or both). I generally will have an iPad open with a relevant PDF that I found on the Internet, another computer nearby with an open terminal and browser, and throw in a few test installs. It's not easy to work in the blind all of the time, and I don't think I'm the only one in that type of element.fonz said:However, when during a typical (or any) FreeBSD installation does one need to type such long and/or complicated commands? I've been looking over my notes for a complicated manual install with GELI and jails, but I can't find anything like that.
"You don't bring me flowers anymore" - Barbara Streisandfonz said:Not to sidetrack the discussion, but... I had a Samsung Galaxy but hated it with passion, so I ditched it and instead got a GT-B2710 - it has normal keys and no effing touch screen. FWIW: I'm not 50 years old yet, I'm far from bald and although I can be romantic at times I sure wouldn't call myself a hippie
<click><click><Convert> - hard to fat-finger that, and the accuracy might be more consistent.fonz said:Which reminds me, I used to have (something very much like) the following in my ~/.signature:
How do I typefor foo in *.jpg; do convert -resize 200x200 $foo `echo $foo|sed -e s/jpg/png`; done
in a GUI?
throAU said:andreyves said:The installation is only available in text mode, what about if I am a loser using FreeBSD?
This one always makes me laugh.
An installer needs to do two things: display information to you in text form, and require user input, which is typically either up arrow/down arrow or text input. Why is that required to be graphical? If text-mode is a barrier to being able to install the OS, you're probably out of your depth installing ANY operating system anyway.
Noob is the derogatory version of newbie, it's usually used in an offensive mannergraudeejs said:Please stop using the "losers" word please. It sounds very offensive. We as FreeBSD community are usually much more tolerant than in the Linux community (AFAIK). "noobs" or "newbies" is a much better word to use.
I know, but it sound so much better than "loser".SirDice said:Noob is the derogatory version of newbie, it's usually used in an offensive mannergraudeejs said:Please stop using the "losers" word please. It sounds very offensive. We as FreeBSD community are usually much more tolerant than in the Linux community (AFAIK). "noobs" or "newbies" is a much better word to use.
tzoi516 said:I baseline everyone at "user". Then it goes from there: "experienced user", "power user", etc. Comes in handy when I have to get technical with senior people who aren't familiar with computers outside of their day-to-day tasks, and it doesn't insult anyone. What's the point, unless I don't want to be employed?
Juanitou said:Maybe we are forgetting that GUI installer implies mouse-driven…
Juanitou said:Maybe we are forgetting that GUI installer implies mouse-driven…
throAU said:I guess where I'm coming from is that the not-insignificant time and effort expended on writing fancy GUI installers to then have to maintain as well as the text-based version is effort that could be better spent refining the questions asked on install and doing more intelligent hardware detection.
ikbendeman said:nestux said:FreeBSD was made for servers,in Desktopon the desktop the system has some consfront[compared to? -- mod.] Linux like hardware support. For instance, I can't get the sound working on my motherboard GA-Z77X-UD5H. I'm not a developer, so I have to wait until someone fixes this with a driver or something like that.
Besides that, FreeBSD is a great OS and I love the "non GUI" feeling on the installer
Try adjusting hw.snd.default_unit and hw.snd.default_auto using sysctl or /etc/sysctl.conf. These were 2 on my last motherboard, and need to be 1 on my current motherboard (for HDMI-passthrough). Use the search engine for more information. Here's my sysctl.conf:
Code:# $FreeBSD: release/9.2.0/etc/sysctl.conf 112200 2003-03-13 18:43:50Z mux $ # # This file is read when going to multi-user and its contents piped thru # ``sysctl'' to adjust kernel values. ``man 5 sysctl.conf'' for details. # # Uncomment this to prevent users from seeing information about processes that # are being run under another UID. security.bsd.see_other_uids=1 vfs.usermount=1 hw.snd.default_unit=1 hw.snd.default_auto=1 # Move and use the following in /boot/loader.conf, experiment with values #kern.ipc.shm_allow_removed=1 #kern.ipc.shmmax=67108864 #kern.ipc.shmmax=134217728 #kern.ipc.shmall=32768 #kern.ipc.shmall=65536 #kern.ipc.shmmni=1024 #kern.ipc.shmmni=2048 #kern.ipc.shmseg=1024 #kern.ipc.shmseg=2048 #kern.maxfiles=25000 #kern.maxfiles=30000 kern.module_path=/boot/kernel;/boot/modules;/usr/local/modules net.link.tap.user_open=1 hint.acpi_throlle.0.disabled=1 kern.ipc.shm_allow_removed=1
OJ said:Of course you don't. Because it wouldn't.fonz said:. . . I don't see how it would actually make the installation any easier.