Docker is dead

[GoNeFast_01]

From, Thread recap-of-first-meeting-of-the-freebsd-enterprise-working-group.90082/:


I recently learned about sysutils/podman which is available on FreeBSD and NetBSD. Podman has been mentioned on the forums a few times. For those who don't know, Podman is a container for Unix-like operating systems, and it's under the Open Container Initiative (OCI) standard. It's meant to be the equivalent of Docker, and compatible with its format. Podman is under Apache 2.0 License.

Relevant ports are sysutils/podman sysutils/buildah and sysutils/podman-suite.

OCI is a Linux Foundation project for an open standard for containers. I wonder why TrueNAS doesn't use Podman instead of Docker.

Investment/customer that have a Linux stack that use TrueNas as HDD hardware provider, perhaps?

Podman is big on Fedora/RHEL, at least I see it in the mailing list often.

 

[k3y5]

From, Thread recap-of-first-meeting-of-the-freebsd-enterprise-working-group.90082/:


I recently learned about sysutils/podman which is available on FreeBSD and NetBSD. Podman has been mentioned on the forums a few times. For those who don't know, Podman is a container for Unix-like operating systems, and it's under the Open Container Initiative (OCI) standard. It's meant to be the equivalent of Docker, and compatible with its format. Podman is under Apache 2.0 License.

Relevant ports are sysutils/podman sysutils/buildah and sysutils/podman-suite.

OCI is a Linux Foundation project for an open standard for containers. I wonder why TrueNAS doesn't use Podman instead of Docker.

Edit: from that github link, xc is a container for FreeBSD 14. It is written in Rust and uses a BSD license.

Nice.

 

[patmaddox]

Linux needs Docker because they have so many distros and so many package managers, and nobody can agree how to package and configure software. So they invented a new package format that bundles the operating system.

FreeBSD doesn't have that problem.

Jails can be "bundled" as zip files. If you took the millions of dollars and engineering hours that have been spent building an ecosystem around Docker, and directed it towards FreeBSD, you would get the remaining benefits of Docker, with greater standardization and less complexity.

But the money went towards Linux, so here we are.

 

[k3y5]

Linux needs Docker because they have so many distros and so many package managers, and nobody can agree how to package and configure software. So they invented a new package format that bundles the operating system.

FreeBSD doesn't have that problem.

Jails can be "bundled" as zip files. If you took the millions of dollars and engineering hours that have been spent building an ecosystem around Docker, and directed it towards FreeBSD, you would get the remaining benefits of Docker, with greater standardization and less complexity.

But the money went towards Linux, so here we are.

Unfortunately true.

Luckily as more organizations are moving to FreeBSD that may start to shift in the coming years.

 

[YYY__]

No, it's talking about Flatpak, Snap, and AppImage. Docker is all about isolation and portability. One deals with system-linked software distribution, and the other with reproducible microservices environments.

 

[kpedersen]

Linux needs Docker because they have so many distros and so many package managers, and nobody can agree how to package and configure software.

I agree this is why the technology likely appeared. Though strangely Linux is actually more compatible than many of its own users believe. For example if you do a package + dependency listing of *everything* for i.e LibreOffice and extract them into a directory and try to run it, things will generally work. If you did this on Debian and then try to run that bundled directory on Fedora, it will still generally work. The bundled directory will also likely end up smaller than a typical Docker image.

Where it will break is every ~5 years when the kernel, /dev, /sys, /proc breaks backwards compat. Ironically Docker, Snaps, AppImage, Flatpak won't solve this either. Even today, trying to run a 5 year old Docker "image" will probably no longer work, which I think is quite amusing.

 

[YYY__]

I wouldn't compare Debian, which may still have a year of support with OldStable, who would want that?, with Fedora, which is up to date.
I still remember using CheckInstall to generate packages from the tarball tree. Yes, Linux is very flexible.
The other discussion. Who has the longest nose.

 

[patmaddox]

Linux needs Docker because they have so many distros and so many package managers, and nobody can agree how to package and configure software. So they invented a new package format that bundles the operating system.

FreeBSD doesn't have that problem.

Jails can be "bundled" as zip files. If you took the millions of dollars and engineering hours that have been spent building an ecosystem around Docker, and directed it towards FreeBSD, you would get the remaining benefits of Docker, with greater standardization and less complexity.

But the money went towards Linux, so here we are.

Linus describes the problem of trying to build for multiple distributions @ 1:00

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzl1B7nB9Kc&t=60s

 

[bakul]

If only the linux “kernel” shipped with a set of standard libraries and binaries like on *BSD, this problem might not have risen….