Docker is dead

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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For all those who wish Docker ran on FreeBSD and praise Linux for having such a thing--and the reasons I don't think this is off topic, here is another in a long list of reasons to not even use Linux at all--and we see such things too often as in Windows, too.

Goodbye Docker and Thanks for All the Fish

Docker has adopted Kubernetes. RedHat has dumped Docker altogether.

Yeah, I'm in a Linux bashing mood. I was reading some posts--on reddit (where else?)--where four people spent three paragraphs each praising BSD then stated "But I would never use it".
 

Remington

Aspiring Daemon

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I run Linux in Bhyve and no need for Docker. Beside Docker was never stable in FreeBSD and it has numerous open issues not resolved so it looks like Docker project for FreeBSD is dead. It's hasn't been updated for 2 years and it should be removed from ports.
 

Remington

Aspiring Daemon

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The only solution to get Docker working is to install Linux in Bhyve and install Docker inside Linux. Docker isn't going to work natively in FreeBSD because Linux is using systemd and Docker depends heavily on Linux Kernel.
 
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obsigna

Daemon

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Why not simply:

# ln -s /usr/sbin/jail docker

and/or

# ln -s /usr/sbin/jail kubernetes

?

Sorry, but bringing docker/kubernetes to FreeBSD is like bringing coals to Newcastle -- hmm, well nowadays, we may want to count with any such nonsense.
 

justinnoor

Active Member

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Unfortunately, like it or not, understanding container workflows gives you an advantage in finding employment. So learn Docker but keep it on Linux!
 
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forquare

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But Docker is dead. Or at least it's Kubernetes now.
I never really understood what the difference was?
Someone at work tried to explain it to me, but it was all a bit of a mishmash of “The backend of this is a frontend to that” and didn’t see to make much sense.
 
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drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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it was all a bit of a mishmash of “The backend of this is a frontend to that” and didn’t see to make much sense.
This is a perfect explanation of the whole Linux ecosystem.

Yeah, I'm just piling on.
 

Crivens

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Staff member
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Someone at work tried to explain it to me, but it was all a bit of a mishmash of “The backend of this is a frontend to that” and didn’t see to make much sense.
Someone then puts a moebius strip on the table and says "Explain that on paper, please."
 

justinnoor

Active Member

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I never really understood what the difference was.
Docker is the container, Kubernetes is the container orchestration tool. Docker has its own orchestrator known as Swarm, but Kubernetes won the popularity contest. Restated, Kubernetes orchestrates and manages containers in massive clusters, including Docker containers. Docker is just one implementation of the OCI specifications.

[EDIT]

Docker uses features of the Linux kernel to isolate resources, resulting in an ultra-lightweight form of virtualization. It is Linux-centric, and should not be part of FreeBSD.

Kubernetes was created by Google. Like Docker, it is written in Go.
 
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kpedersen

Daemon

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I sometimes think that Docker is only really used in the web world as an attempt to package software projects which drag in a completely unmaintainable number of dependencies. Such examples include a library just to split a string in Javascript*.

So rather than package what should i.e be a single folder, they end up packaging the entire OS installation XD

My prediction is that no single docker image made today will still be usable in as little as 5 years. Whereas didn't someone manage to get an ancient FreeBSD 4 Jail working in a FreeBSD 10 install?

* Actually, first they would include a library to help them include a library just to split a string in Javascript!
 

justinnoor

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I sometimes think that Docker is only really used in the web world as an attempt to package software projects which drag in a completely unmaintainable number of dependencies.
Understandable. Like anything, Docker has its pros and cons. By far, one of its greatest strengths lies in development. Docker prevents you, and your colleagues, from installing a bunch of cruft on your local machines when building prototypes. Shoot your container over to Docker Hub, and anyone can test it in a matter of seconds.

Here’s a good demo from sysadmincasts of containers in action with a real project:

https://sysadmincasts.com/episodes/53-extracting-image-metadata-to-json-using-imagemagick
 

rootbert

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I think the idea behind docker is great. The implementation sucks as hell. After we went through various upgrades that left us in an non operating state we dumped docker for rkt... its a much better alternative, I would love to have freebsd implement containers.

And before any "we have jails, they are better" comments come: I know and I love jails, but container simply target a different requirement. Jails just do not always fit, sometimes containers would be awesome.
 

kpedersen

Daemon

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Docker prevents you, and your colleagues, from installing a bunch of cruft on your local machines when building prototypes.
Well thats kind of the problem. No software should require:

Python 2, Python 3, Ruby, Node.js, Java, 100's of small dependencies for each

And yet installing something like GitLab or Emscripten does.

This kind of cruft just smells of sloppy software development to me.
Yes, not everything can be written in C due to time / skill limitations but I wish some projects would simply choose one single language rather than fscking around mashing a load of crap together!
 

justinnoor

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No software should require: Python 2, Python 3, Ruby, Node.js, Java, 100's of small dependencies for each.
Good point, but even a pure NodeJS application might require several NPM packages, which, many people do not want to install directly on their local machines (especially personal laptops). Installing those dependencies on every host is not repeatable across teams, breaks machines, and raises security concerns.
 
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badbrain

Guest


Many friends of mine working on the outsource business like Docker very much. It's really convenient for them.

On FreeBSD is anyone ever think about a Jailhub? We have ZFS. You prepared a ready to use jail, for example FreeBSD-FAMP then zfs send | xz ... to have FreeBSD-FAMP.xz and upload it to a central server. Very convenient indeed. Something like this for Bhyvehub would be fine.

On FreeBSD now, you only have Vagrant and VirtualBox prebuilt images.
 
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badbrain

Guest


If you look at iocage(8) plugins, it is just shell scripts (here, the gitlab plugin script). So you can easily adapt them and use them with bhyve(8).
No no I mean a already established central hub like dockerhub that we could download prebuilt images and use immediately. We already have something like that with iocage plugins. I ask if something like this but with Bhyve already exist or not. I don't want to setup everything my own. I'm lazy man :p
 
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