Dependency problem with 'gnome3' package in FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE

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There is a dependency problem with the 'gnome3' package in FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE. The application requires the package 'xorg' be installed to run, yet 'xorg' is not part of the dependency tree of 'gnome3'.
 
It is expected that when you install an environment or manager that a working X or Wayland environment is already present by the user.

There is even an extra handbook section for that:

docs.freebsd.org

Chapter 5. The X Window System

This chapter describes how to install and configure the X Window System providing a graphical environment
docs.freebsd.org docs.freebsd.org
 
Kolusion said:
The application requires the package 'xorg' be installed to run, yet 'xorg' is not part of the dependency tree of 'gnome3'.
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It's not a dependency of Gnome, so it's not included. Gnome only has a dependency on certain Xorg libraries. The GUI aka X itself needs to be configured and installed before you can run a desktop manager on top of it. When you build a house you don't start by building the roof first either.
 
Right, so it needs Xorg to run, so Xorg is a dependency, like walls and a ground are a dependency for the roof.
 
Kolusion said:
so it needs Xorg to run, so Xorg is a dependency
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That's not how dependencies work. Xorg requires Xorg, Gnome doesn't require it. I can run Gnome just fine without Xorg (remote X for example, or through VNC). It'll also work fine using x11/xorg-minimal too (but requires a little more setting up). Or perhaps I want to use graphics/wayland instead.

If you want to run Gnome on top of x11-servers/xorg-server then yes, you're going to need to install x11/xorg first.

I understand it's a little daunting at first but you need to realize there are many more ways to run things. The handbook just shows you a few of them. The chapters on setting up Gnome come after the chapters on setting up Xorg. Heck, setting up Gnome is a subchapter (5.7) of setting up Xorg (Chapter 5).
 
The sub-section for GNOME should be pulled out of the X window system section in the handbook then.
 
You say it's not a dependency as it can be ran without the X Window System so then it shouldn't be there. If it stays in there then obviously the X Window System is a dependency, in which case my original statement that it is a bug would be correct.
 
You can run Gnome through Xvnc (part of tigervnc). So no reason to install Xorg.
You can also run Gnome through ssh/X11 forwarding. Again, no need for the Xorg package to be installed.

Xorg is just one (popular) X11 server. But it is not the only one and the separation between the application and the display server is the whole point of the design.
 
Kolusion said:
You say it's not a dependency as it can be ran without the X Window System so then it shouldn't be there. If it stays in there then obviously the X Window System is a dependency, in which case my original statement that it is a bug would be correct.
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For the handbook it's fine where it is. The handbook only shows you some of the configurations that can be done. When you're a little more advanced you can skip the handbook and do more tricks. But for new users like yourself it's perfectly fine where it is.
 
SirDice said:
But for new users like yourself it's perfectly fine where it is.
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If it was perfectly fine we wouldn't be having this conversation.


Alain De Vos said:
Openbsd is not different. When you install kde and gnome it does not pulls in xorg.
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Who cares about OpenBSD, it is another operating system unrelated to FreeBSD. What OpenBSD does is it's business.
 
Kolusion said:
If it was perfectly fine we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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We're having this conversation because I'm trying my best to explain things to you. Xorg is not and never will be a dependency of Gnome. As a matter of fact NOTHING has a dependency on x11/xorg. Applications only have dependencies on things they actually use, like x11/libX11 for example. x11/xorg is a convenient collection of applications (it's a meta-port), which includes everything necessary to run a full X11 desktop. You run Gnome on top of some parts of that. The easiest way to accomplish that is to install and configure x11/xorg first, then install any additional desktop environments or window managers.
 
So then, 'xorg' is a 'dependency' for gnome to work.

Here is a fact: GNOME did not work until I installed the 'xorg' package. This means, GNOME depends on 'xorg'.

lol if you still can't see it from my view then we will have to agree to disagree.
 
Then stop polluting my threads and go elsewhere? Problem solved for both of us!
 
Like on your already known Ubuntu the gnome3 package only forces other packages to be installed. And these packages can be used without having Xorg installed. Example for a remote usage of a GNOME application:

ssh -X username@ip-of-gnome-machine gnome-terminal

So: None X application requires the xorg package to be installed. Note that FreeBSDs pkg is not the same as Debians apt-get - there's no "suggested" or "recommended", which installs packages that a user might expects to be there (even if they aren't necessary). FreeBSD is not the fluffy airily hotel - it's more about a tailor-made suit, and you're the tailor.

So no, there's not a missing dependency, there's missing knowledge. And wrong expectations.
 
It's better that Xorg and desktops are kept separate, so people understand where one program starts and one ends. Twm is the original wm with a history with Xorg, and it's ultra light, so it's an exception. So it doesn't mix up Xorg with the confusion that is Gnome. Simply install Xorg and Gnome or another wm or desktop, which isn't a big deal.

I get that Gnome is dependent on Xorg, except what I learned from jmos post. Even without that, the separation of the two programs is nice.

Not knowing both ports/packages is needed is something that has to be read to be realized. It's kind of like math, when an equation has additional answers. Like how we only think of the positive integer, when we try to answer what's the square root of something.
 
After the Base System build, I first compile ports that can be run from the command line like nmap and do not need graphics beyond text in the login terminal.

Then I build xrog.

After that I start with the Window Manager, file manager, build on that and finish with Firefox.

Your argument was not a valid point of contention, Kolusion. It served only to point out your lack of knowledge and a display of how receptive you are to it.

Good luck with that.
 
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