Can you use Unix without X11 forward?

[aragats]

You can, at most, run one display server per physical display.

In fact, when you launch vncserver (e.g. from net/tightvnc), it starts another X server.

I'm afraid that this thread reaches a state where it is in violation of forum rules

I agree, every technical question/answer is followed by groundless emotional splashes...

 

[kpedersen]

Sorry, I still don't understand your point. Each user logged in Windows can run his own VNC server (of course, using different TCP ports). They perfectly work simultaneously.

I think you are confusing things with RDP. You can only log multiple users in because of RDP. Just like X11, if you do not have a multi-user aware display system (such as Wayland), you will not be able to log in multiple users to run their own VNC.

Honestly, try this with Windows 98 (or a non-multi-user edition like Windows XP Home) and you will see what I mean.

RDP and X11 are suitable for multi-user systems.
Wayland isnt. No amount of VNC can help this.

In fact, when you launch vncserver (e.g. from net/tightvnc), it starts another X server.

Yep, this is basically where Wayland drops the ball. You cannot start a "Wayland server". Only one will exist; the physical display. Anything else is "outside the scope of Wayland" meaning that the kids haven't thought about it yet (and probably do not care :/)

 

[aragats]

I understand what you're saying, and mostly agree. So, RDP is another way to provide a multi-seat environment.
However, VNC itself has nothing to do with it.
«VNC is a graphical desktop-sharing system that uses the Remote Frame Buffer protocol (RFB) to remotely control another computer»
You say "For example, VNC on Windows, you can only have 1 session", but that phrase is incorrect per se.

 

[shkhln]

Yep, this is basically where Wayland drops the ball. You cannot start a "Wayland server". Only one will exist; the physical display. Anything else is "outside the scope of Wayland" meaning that the kids haven't thought about it yet (and probably do not care :/)

This is a bit overly dramatic, Weston's RDP backend is claimed to be multiseat aware.

 

[kpedersen]

You say "For example, VNC on Windows, you can only have 1 session", but that phrase is incorrect per se.

True, but running VNC from an RDP session seems like cheating

This is a bit overly dramatic, Weston's RDP backend is claimed to be multiseat aware.

We shall see. The goals of the Linux community these days seem to be so far detached from what *nix was originally meant for, I think it is going to be an absolute mess when it comes to the enterprise. Seeing RedHat Enterprise 7 with a semi-broken Gnome 3 fallback environment as default is quite a testament to this.

 

[oops]

You can, at most, run one display server per physical display.

Have you actually tested? Try startx -- :0, startx -- :1, etc. then switch via Ctrl + Alt + F<N> or vidcontrol -s <N> </dev/ttyv0.

 

[rufwoof]

Have you actually tested? Try startx -- :0, startx -- :1, etc. then switch via Ctrl + Alt + F<N> or vidcontrol -s <N> </dev/ttyv0.

I do it all the time on my linux boot.
Xephyr :1 &
DISPLAY=:1 cwm & .... or whatever.
Total separation. And if you combine that with unshare, capabilities being dropped (capsh), chroot (with chroot capability dropped) ... then you can have high performance graphics also running in a contained environment. You could even go the Apple like extreme of running each program in its own contained environment, without the vm lag. Works best where the main system is a squashed filesystem as you can mount that same base system in each/every chroot'd 'container' with very low overhead. https://easyos.org/ is a example.

Can even set each to appear on a different Ctrl-Alt-Fn terminal (add a vt3 or whatever parameter). I can for instance have EasyOS main (real root) on ctrl-alt-F4, a Easy Container (duff root) running on Ctrl-Alt-F3, a Debian boot running on Ctrl-Alt-F2 (again running inside a Xephyr/chroot), and all running as though they were installed to bare metal (low/no graphical latency).

 

[unitrunker]

I like running remote X apps without those remote app windows trapped inside an RDP frame. I can have a remote X client window on my desktop work space mixed in with other app windows. Also - Wayland and X11 are not mutually exclusive. Walyand compositor can talk directly to the hardware while the X server talks to clients.

 

[Spartrekus]

The funny thing is that the poll gives 10 to 6 for without x11.

I would not be surprised that FreeBSD would go to Wayland.
Even systemd

This is like voting for a new president.

--
@kpedersen: Greetings to you ! Best regards.

 

[aragats]

The funny thing is that the poll gives 10 to 6 for without x11.
I would not be surprised that FreeBSD would go to Wayland.
Even systemd

Putting the rest of complex logic aside, do you really think the 16 votes scientifically represent 1300 active users (as danger@ mentioned recently) to make a statistical inference?

 

[Spartrekus]

Putting the rest of complex logic aside, do you really think the 16 votes scientifically represent 1300 active users (as danger@ mentioned recently) to make a statistical inference?

It is a relatively smaller group (*BSD, all included) than MS Windows.

 

[Spartrekus]

to aragats

vnc is useful ok but....

I have to say that VNC is a huge resource waster. hugewaster.
let s run xterm and x11 take nothing over x11 forward.
I can give you the code if you want so that you see it with your eyes.

x11 forward is tiny and does not need x11 to be running.

vnc is wasting resource and cpu of a given machine.

 

[aragats]

I have to say that VNC is a huge resource waster. hugewaster.
let s run xterm and x11 take nothing over x11 forward.
I can give you the code if you want so that you see it with your eyes.

But who's arguing with this??
You don't read carefully what people tell, you're blindly trying to prove you're right. And you are – with certain reservations.
Many people (including myself) pointed that X11 forwarding doesn't always work with modern GUIs.
Every day I happily use X11 forwarding to work with Beyond Compare by running it in a remote Linux box, and it perfectly works although has a complex UI.
In contrast, a very simple image vewier graphics/feh doesn't work at all (it hangs and has to be killed then with "kill -9". So, to quickly view a remote picture I have to run more complex graphics/geeqie.

 

[Spartrekus]

But who's arguing with this??
You don't read carefully what people tell, you're blindly trying to prove you're right. And you are – with certain reservations.
Many people (including myself) pointed that X11 forwarding doesn't always work with modern GUIs.
Every day I happily use X11 forwarding to work with Beyond Compare by running it in a remote Linux box, and it perfectly works although has a complex UI.
In contrast, a very simple image vewier graphics/feh doesn't work at all (it hangs and has to be killed then with "kill -9". So, to quickly view a remote picture I have to run more complex graphics/geeqie.

no one is right or wrong .
the tue is that x11 forward is slow for elaborated libraries.
I use vnc for fast graphics but for simple x11 applications such as x11 lib based ones for logs mostly I will use x11 forward. x11 lib does well and fast.
The bottle neck is that largely we hangs in using softwares instead of compiling our own code. this for education purpose dand flexibility.

Once a windows c sharp coder told me that in windows there are all tools for programmers.
But on Unix you have to make it yourself you have to make everything yourself. I liked it because this is really right.

Since feh hangs what about trying lodepng to dipslay if you can survive with png. ..


x11 ppm is doable but likely it wont fit your needs because it need elaboration.

Recently I use cacalib to display on distant monitor nice fast workaround.
with img2txt it works.