Berkeley math prof gives up on marking homework.

You better hope that it IS that guy who turns out to be the 'morlocks', and not some version of THIS guy. The period of time where humans of any type retain some vestige of control, may turn out to be rather short. The lotus-eating Eloi might not be around to enjoy it for very long. Perhaps the machines will keep some around as pets. Or slaves.
View attachment 27779
That is a BFG...
I'd feel safer around this clanker. He at least it does not eat or f..k the same stuff I do. Little conflict of interest.
 
It's a good job you didn't grow up in Shanghai then... homework weekday evenings. Cramming school all day saturday. Same again sunday morning... then another week starts monday. Kids have a fun time over there. The nail that stands up will be hammered down, as they say.
Our national 19th century (I think, I was lousy at school with dates, lol) hero had his diary excavated.
He had free time only Sundays afternoon. Between that he drilled ancient Greek, Latin, French, German, Czech and many other things I can't even pronounce.

Same my grandma from affluent family. My grandpa had much different experience his family having no high aspirations - he flunked it quite nicely.
Didn't matter. He was fine electrician and a war hero for a while. Then public enemy, when the commies came (he fought for the allies but the wrong ones in the West) and thus both of them had to do manual labor...to teach them to be proletariat or something.
The best skill he learned was to shoot and evade secret police. No ancient Greek came to rescue.
 
Way back in the day, I taught electronics for Control Data Corp (CDC). My morning class was a bunch of hard studiers but the afternoon and evening classes had the reputation of getting the answers to the tests ahead of time from other classes. One kid in my class got hold of the answers and I was informed of that when one of the kids gave me his copy. That really riled me up. So I held a class meeting. I strode among the chairs looking at all 120 of them.

"When it comes time to sit in front of an employer, it won't matter what grade you got here in this school. Nobody is going to care that you got a diploma on the wall. What matters is what you know! And if you don't know and understand the things that are taught in this class, you won't get the job or you won't be able to hold the job. You are paid for your knowledge and expertise, not your grade on a test." And I plopped the test answers copy on that kids lap.

I was told that resonated through to the afternoon and evening classes and really shook people up.
 
it won't matter what grade you got [...] in [...] school. Nobody is going to care that you got a diploma on the wall. What matters is what you know! And if you don't know and understand the things that are taught [...], you won't get the job or you won't be able to hold the job. You are paid for your knowledge and expertise, not your grade on a test.
That exactly.

Additionally there are two more things not understood, even completely missed:

1. There is no understanding without knowledge.

When I came to university to study engineering I learned there are two kinds of subjects:
rote learning and understanding
While the first one is boring and the second one is more interesting, the second one is harder, way harder, at least for the vast majority, even if almost everybody claims to be an understanding type.
Anyway understanding cannot come without learning. Alas sometimes even blunt rote learning is unavoidable.
You first have to learn about chlorophyll, oxygen, carbondioxid, and sunlight before you can understand photosynthesis. And you have to learn a lot more things to rate the role of photosynthesis for life.

Engineering is mostly about understanding. We were teached, it makes no sense to rote learn endless tables containing zillions of values: gigantic material value tables, constants, standards, formulas, screws, nuts,... etc. etc. etc. For that there are references you can look those things up when needed: tables, books, encyclopaedia, Wikipedia, chatbots.
But like you cannot learn everything you simply cannot look up everything. You have to learn, even sometimes bluntly rote learn some core things. And you have to learn what to learn, and what you can leave to look it up when needed. That is the most challenging part. Because you already have to have learned a lot to decide what you can leave to reference, and what not, what you have to learn. So you learn it and leave it not to reference. Or in other words: An expert does know, what needs to be learned and what can be left to references. But a newbie, a pupil, a student cannot. Simply because of she/he is no expert yet, so lacking expertise to know that. Having even the best referene doesn't make anybody an expert. No learning, no expertise. No expertise, no expert.

Back in U there have been tests we called "Kofferklausur", 'suitcase exam'. Because you were allowed to bring a suitcase full of all the stuff you wanted to bring, anything you like into the test: As many books as you like, lecture notes, cheat sheets, whatever you want, no restrictions (Back then there have been no laptops nor mobile phones.) Those were the hardest tests.
Some really brought half a library. Those were the ones who failed these tests. The ones who passed were those who brought only what was actually needed to do the test: pens, ruler, calculator, and the knowledge in their brains.
Those were pure understanding tests. If you did not already learn and understand how to solve an assigment, you simply couldn't do it during the test, no matter how many books or written paper you brought. Because for anything not trivial you already learned how to do it, there simply is no time to learn it while you're doing it. You already have learned it in advance, or you cannot do it.
Example: When you never learned how to play an instrument you simply cannot just take place infront of a church's organ, take some reference to hand - cheat sheet, book, ChatGPT - and play Bach. You don't learned it, so you cannot do it.
You can make a computer do it for you, but then it's not you who's playing. Which brings me to the second point:

2. There is no use for anybody who can do nothing.

If you ask an AI chatbot to do things it's the chatbot who knows how to and does it, not you. And you better don't confuse that.
Apart from other points everybody else is also capable to use a chatbot. So it's just a "competence" like using a toilet. Uh, poor example. Public toilets reveal, more people are capable to use a chatbot than a toilet.
Using a chatbot ain't no real competence at all.

Chatbots rely on the expertise many people have to have produced first by their work. Often not being asked, let alone being payed for. There are words for when you take something unasked that is not yours and not pay for it: stealing and theft. Of course that's a big business opportunity when you sell something you do not pay for. If a majority joins the show doesn't change its nature. In german we have an own word for dealing with stolen goods: Hehlerei. However, anyway it's not your competence. Some may throw in, 'so is the content of books.' Well, yeah, but when you learned what's in a book, it becomes your knowledge, while what a chatbot presents you forget almost instantly. You don't learn it, because you don't have to. So, it's neither your competence nor your knowledge.

And chatbots are not reliable. One needs to have knowledge if not expertise to use them right, to pick the useful parts from all the junk chatbots produce. If you don't have learned anything, because you rely and trust the chatbots, only, you simply cannot rate and distinguish things, above all not perceive the wrong crap they produce, so adjust your question to get the right answers you seek - if you seek any. That's another point: The loss of interest. Those chatbots are more and more used to fulfill tasks given by others, only, while more and more do not care anymore why the world is and works the way it is. They don't have to. The chatbot knows it for them.

If all you do is just hand a job over to a machine to do it, and then simply hand the result back without even took a peek at it, let alone tested its correctness, rated its value, not speaking of filtering, correcting, improving, which all needs expertise and own work to be done, which is not only everybody else also capable to do, but also doable by a machine, then you are useless. 😮
There is way more useful things to do then to participate the production chains for consumer products. But somebody not doing something useful may be tolerated, if the society - mommy, daddy, spouses, friends, welfare, state,... - are strong enough and willing to carry this person, but anybody not doing anything useful at all is simply a burden.
That our today's society increases the bar for who is a burden for no reason but egoism and greed while at the same time it was never that rich, never had so much capability to easily "carry burdens", is an unnatural, mad situation enabled by short-terminism I don't want to stress here.


But partially it's also the educational system's fault.
Schools take out the fun of learning, and leave kids not enough time for learning themselves what they want.
In my eyes that's the worst part at all.
This ancient education system we still cling on is obsolete for over sixty years. Already a long time ago there have been ideas how to improve education. And also pedagogues will not only tell you many way better concepts how to improve education, but also tell so many things are simply just wrong in our schools. See for example Montessori education for IMO some way better ideas.
Until sixty years ago there was enough space left to do things besides the teaching program. The generation of my parents still learned, 'Not for school, but for life we learn.' In the last decades that's turned into nonsense. Today you have to learn for school. Otherwise you don't get the grades, so no useful graduation to get to U or a decent payed job. Today's pupils don't ask anymore if something makes sense to learn, what's the use of something. They don't ask anything. There is neither the time, nor the space for questions, particulary not to seek interests. They just have to function perfectly or they fail. There is no space left for experiments, to learn things on their own. Asking questions outbrakes the class. And anything besides the show not earning you any points for needed grades is wasted time and energy you cannot afford.
Even very young pupils have to be most efficient. Just check what grades in which subjects are needed, what counts more, what does not, and then what's the most efficient way to get there. Either do the bare minimum. Not because of laziness but because of not having more power except giving the subjects that count, only, just the bare minimum. Or find other ways to get there anyhow. Fu## the rest!

Ain't it what we have on $JOB? There is more work than can be done. And we must deliver just some thing in time. Rest doesn't matter. Now we also have this in school. Children getting burn out. If this ain't great, I don't what is. And it still ain't enough. We still need to grow even more, even faster, even greater.
Why? Where to? For whom?

Twelve year olds have time planners, making appointments for play dates. That's sick! That's wrong! That's against nature! That's inhuman! Twelve year olds should sit in school in the morning learning Pythagoras and photosynthesis, do one hour homework in the afternoon, and then play with their friends until they fall asleep in the evening: running, screeming through nature, play football or pirates or what they see on TV, carving bow and arrows, having bicycle chases, building tree houses, go fishing, or whatever else, wild, free and unrestrained, but not being organized little managers chauffeured in some overprotected luxury SUV from one appointment to the next looking at the clock and staring at some computer screen.

The most absurd thing is, there even is no time anymore to do all what the school demands. Everybody agrees on our world became more complex within the last decades, and so there have to be way more to learn than back in the 1960s. But instead of taking this in account and extend school time, we reduced school from 13 to 12 years, and university from 12 semesters down to 8. While the stuff to be teached ain't not reduced, not even stayed the same amount but even more stuff must be teached - in shorter time! That's mad! 🤪 Must be the result of poor education. 😁
The teaching program obliges to do so many things today there is no time for getting anything explained right for the majority. Example:
Imagine it takes 2 x 45 = 90 minutes to make ~90% grasp Pythagoras. There are always slow ones and lazybones not getting it after ten hours, but those are not the majority. Now there is so much more stuff to teach within a year a teacher today got twenty minutes to explain Pythagoras (made up times; just to get a picture how the situation looks like.) You don't need to be a pedagogue to see this cannot work. Only 10% or maybe 20% will grasp it within this too short time, while everybody must bring the knowledge in the test.
The result is: Politicians and schools proudly point out all the lot many fancy things teached in school, while everybody else wonders, why kids today knew so few, lack most fundamental things, even bring no interest in anything at all, avoid learning at all cost. Point is, it may be "teached", but it is not learned, because it cannot. It's just checked off.
That's at least paradox if not schizophrenia! Just because industry was whining, they were all too old and must be younger when join the workforce. Now we have that. Now industry is whining there are not enough competent people coming from schools anymore, and they are immature. Well, Duh! Where shall they come from? Of course they are immature for their age. There is not enough time besides school to live and mature. (Which proves, not to blindely believe and always follow what industry demands. They don't know what's really good, neither for the society, nor themselves. 😁)
Plus many schools are not capable to keep up with their own standards, because at the same time politicians also drew out money from education. In many countries the public school system is pointless. If you cannot afford to have your kids on a private school, it's an almost useless waste of time to have them on a public school, because the diploma they get there is worth to decorate a public toilet with. And I'm not talking so called third world countries but the self declared best ones.
Back in my school days a tutor was for when you have been lazy, missed some stuff, and needed extra lessons to catch up. Today it's common for pupils to have private tutors. Private tutor schools are a booming business pretty much unknown back in my school days. They are needed to teach kids besides school what school does not teach but demands. Those who can afford private tutors get a diploma. Those who don't fail. And over all the headline is "support the best". That's BS. That's a lie. That's not supporting the best, that's supporting the rich. And we have already seen mayn times where this ends, when nobles = rich are getting in the best positions just because they are rich/noble while the real gifted ones are suppressed if they don't belong to the upper class.
One of the causes of the french army's superiority under Napoleon against all the noble's armies back then was promotion was done by competence, not by heritage. A simple peasant's private could become general. While in other armies officers were chosen only from nobles, not matter how incompetent they were, and sergeants' job was to herd soldiers like cattle, otherwise they deserted and flew. So back then the french army had by far the best motivated soldiers, so have been most efficient, have beaten several armies similar equipped and larger in numbers (I'm talking about the time before 1812.)

And you simply cannot blame the kids for it.
Kids just swim the best they can in the pool you throw them in. If they don't behave like expected, then it's not the kids' fault, but the fault of those who do not understand the situation and kids in it.
It's like laboratory mice you put into some labyrinth. If the mouse simply climbs over the wall to get to the cheese, it is you and your labyrinth to blame, not the mouse.
So, it's to change the situation, not blaming the kids, above all not trying to change them. Some imbeciles actually thinking about to change the kids: Like in the ancient terror school days, when a left hander is hit by a stick when not learn to use the right hand. This you do when you want to produce cannonfodder, but it helps not on producing any competence needed in a not-medieval world at all whatsoever.

We need to ban AI chatbots from tests/exams - otherwise those make no sense at all. Or we need to get rid off tests, exams and grades and find other ways to guarantee somebody graduated brings the according knowledge. Because I don't want to be operated by somebody who claims to be a physician and says, 'I never removed an appendix before, but ChatGPT will tell me what to do. Nurse, what's this "blood pressure" means on this monitor over there?'

But for that you have to create an environment where kids can and want learn in a reasonable way.
One cannot only demand, one also have to give - call it "investment into the future."

Maybe there will come something good from all of that, and we get a reformation that finally upgrades our education system, instead of dismantling it even more.

🐁🧀☕📖🥬🍁☀️🤓😎
 
That exactly.

Additionally there are two more things not understood, even completely missed:

1. There is no understanding without knowledge.

When I came to university to study engineering I learned there are two kinds of subjects:
rote learning and understanding
While the first one is boring and the second one is more interesting, the second one is harder, way harder, at least for the vast majority, even if almost everybody claims to be an understanding type.
Anyway understanding cannot come without learning. Alas sometimes even blunt rote learning is unavoidable.
You first have to learn about chlorophyll, oxygen, carbondioxid, and sunlight before you can understand photosynthesis. And you have to learn a lot more things to rate the role of photosynthesis for life.

Engineering is mostly about understanding. We were teached, it makes no sense to rote learn endless tables containing zillions of values: gigantic material value tables, constants, standards, formulas, screws, nuts,... etc. etc. etc. For that there are references you can look those things up when needed: tables, books, encyclopaedia, Wikipedia, chatbots.
But like you cannot learn everything you simply cannot look up everything. You have to learn, even sometimes bluntly rote learn some core things. And you have to learn what to learn, and what you can leave to look it up when needed. That is the most challenging part. Because you already have to have learned a lot to decide what you can leave to reference, and what not, what you have to learn. So you learn it and leave it not to reference. Or in other words: An expert does know, what needs to be learned and what can be left to references. But a newbie, a pupil, a student cannot. Simply because of she/he is no expert yet, so lacking expertise to know that. Having even the best referene doesn't make anybody an expert. No learning, no expertise. No expertise, no expert.

Back in U there have been tests we called "Kofferklausur", 'suitcase exam'. Because you were allowed to bring a suitcase full of all the stuff you wanted to bring, anything you like into the test: As many books as you like, lecture notes, cheat sheets, whatever you want, no restrictions (Back then there have been no laptops nor mobile phones.) Those were the hardest tests.
Some really brought half a library. Those were the ones who failed these tests. The ones who passed were those who brought only what was actually needed to do the test: pens, ruler, calculator, and the knowledge in their brains.
Those were pure understanding tests. If you did not already learn and understand how to solve an assigment, you simply couldn't do it during the test, no matter how many books or written paper you brought. Because for anything not trivial you already learned how to do it, there simply is no time to learn it while you're doing it. You already have learned it in advance, or you cannot do it.
Example: When you never learned how to play an instrument you simply cannot just take place infront of a church's organ, take some reference to hand - cheat sheet, book, ChatGPT - and directly play Bach perfectly.
You can make a computer do it for you, but then it's not you who's playing. Which brings me to the second point:

2. There is no use for anybody who can do nothing.

If you ask an AI chatbot to do things it's the chatbot who knows how to and does it, not you. And you better don't confuse that.
Apart from other points everybody else is also capable to use a chatbot. So it's just a "competence" like using a toilet. Uh, poor example. Public toilets reveal, more people are capable to use a chatbot than a toilet.
Using a chatbot ain't no real competence at all.

Chatbots rely on the expertise many people have to have produced first by their work. Often not being asked, let alone being payed for. There are words for when you take something unasked that is not yours and not pay for it: stealing and theft. Of course that's a big business opportunity when you sell something you do not pay for. If a majority joins the show doesn't change its nature. In german we have an own word for dealing with stolen goods: Hehlerei. However, anyway it's not your competence. Some may throw in, 'so is the content of books.' Well, yeah, but when you learned what's in a book, it becomes your knowledge, while what a chatbot presents you forget almost instantly. You don't learn it, because you don't have to. So, it's neither your competence nor your knowledge.

And chatbots are not reliable. One needs to have knowledge if not expertise to use them right, to pick the useful parts from all the junk chatbots produce. If you don't have learned anything, because you rely and trust the chatbots, only, you simply cannot rate and distinguish things, above all not perceive the wrong crap they produce, so adjust your question to get the right answers you seek - if you seek any. That's another point: The loss of interest. Those chatbots are more and more used to fulfill tasks given by others, only, while more and more do not care anymore why the world is and works the way it is. They don't have to. The chatbot knows it for them.

If all you do is just hand a job over to a machine to do it, and then simply hand the result back without even took a peek at it, let alone tested its correctness, rated its value, not speaking of filtering, correcting, improving, which all needs expertise and own work to be done, which is not only everybody else also capable to do, but also doable by a machine, then you are useless. 😮
There is way more useful things to do then to participate the production chains for consumer products. But somebody not doing something useful may be tolerated, if the society - mommy, daddy, spouses, friends, welfare, state,... - are strong enough and willing to carry this person, but anybody not doing anything useful at all is simply a burden.
That our today's society increases the bar for who is a burden for no reason but egoism and greed while at the same time it was never that rich, never had so much capability to easily "carry burdens", is an unnatural, mad situation enabled by short-terminism I don't want to stress here.


But partially it's also the educational system's fault.
Schools take out the fun of learning, and leave kids not enough time for learning themselves what they want.
In my eyes that's the worst part at all.
This ancient education system we still cling on is obsolete for over sixty years. Already a long time ago there have been ideas how to improve education. And also pedagogues will not only tell you many way better concepts how to improve education, but also tell so many things are simply just wrong in our schools. See for example Montessori education for IMO some way better ideas.
Until sixty years ago there was enough space left to do things besides the teaching program. The generation of my parents still learned, 'Not for school, but for life we learn.' In the last decades that's turned into nonsense. Today you have to learn for school. Otherwise you don't get the grades, so no useful graduation to get to U or a decent payed job. Today's pupils don't ask anymore if something makes sense to learn, what's the use of something. They don't ask anything. There is neither the time, nor the space for questions, particulary not to seek interests. They just have to function perfectly or they fail. There is no space left for experiments, to learn things on their own. Asking questions outbrakes the class. And anything besides the show not earning you any points for needed grades is wasted time and energy you cannot afford.
Even very young pupils have to be most efficient. Just check what grades in which subjects are needed, what counts more, what does not, and then what's the most efficient way to get there. Either do the bare minimum. Not because of laziness but because of not having more power except giving the subjects that count, only, just the bare minimum. Or find other ways to get there anyhow. Fu## the rest!

Ain't it what we have on $JOB? There is more work than can be done. And we must deliver just some thing in time. Rest doesn't matter. Now we also have this in school. Children getting burn out. If this ain't great, I don't what is. And it still ain't enough. We still need to grow even more, even faster, even greater.
Why? Where to? For whom?

Twelve year olds have time planners, making appointments for play dates. That's sick! That's wrong! That's against nature! That's inhuman! Twelve year olds should sit in school in the morning learning Pythagoras and photosynthesis, do one hour homework in the afternoon, and then play with their friends until they fall asleep in the evening: running, screeming through nature, play football or pirates or what they see on TV, carving bow and arrows, having bicycle chases, building tree houses, go fishing, or whatever else, wild, free and unrestrained, but not being organized little managers chauffeured in some overprotected luxury SUV from one appointment to the next looking at the clock and staring at some computer screen.

The most absurd thing is, there even is no time anymore to do all what the school demands. Everybody agrees on our world became more complex within the last decades, and so there have to be way more to learn than back in the 1960s. But instead of taking this in account and extend school time, we reduced school from 13 to 12 years, and university from 12 semesters down to 8. While the stuff to be teached ain't not reduced, not even stayed the same amount but even more stuff must be teached - in shorter time! That's mad! 🤪 Must be the result of poor education. 😁
The teaching program obliges to do so many things today there is no time for getting anything explained right for the majority. Example:
Imagine it takes 2 x 45 = 90 minutes to make ~90% grasp Pythagoras. There are always slow ones and lazybones not getting it after ten hours, but those are not the majority. Now there is so much more stuff to teach within a year a teacher today got twenty minutes to explain Pythagoras (made up times; just to get a picture how the situation looks like.) You don't need to be a pedagogue to see this cannot work. Only 10% or maybe 20% will grasp it within this too short time, while everybody must bring the knowledge in the test.
The result is: Politicians and schools proudly point out all the lot many fancy things teached in school, while everybody else wonders, why kids today knew so few, lack most fundamental things, even bring no interest in anything at all, avoid learning at all cost. Point is, it may be "teached", but it is not learned, because it cannot. It's just checked off.
That's at least paradox if not schizophrenia! Just because industry was whining, they were all too old and must be younger when join the workforce. Now we have that. Now industry is whining there are not enough competent people coming from schools anymore, and they are immature. Well, Duh! Where shall they come from? Of course they are immature for their age. There is not enough time besides school to live and mature. (Which proves, not to blindely believe and always follow what industry demands. They don't know what's really good, neither for the society, nor themselves. 😁)
Plus many schools are not capable to keep up with their own standards, because at the same time politicians also drew out money from education. In many countries the public school system is pointless. If you cannot afford to have your kids on a private school, it's an almost useless waste of time to have them on a public school, because the diploma they get there is worth to decorate a public toilet with. And I'm not talking so called third world countries but the self declared best ones.
Back in my school days a tutor was for when you have been lazy, missed some stuff, and needed extra lessons to catch up. Today it's common for pupils to have private tutors. Private tutor schools are a booming business pretty much unknown back in my school days. They are needed to teach kids besides school what school does not teach but demands. Those who can afford private tutors get a diploma. Those who don't fail. And over all the headline is "support the best". That's BS. That's a lie. That's not supporting the best, that's supporting the rich. And we have already seen mayn times where this ends, when nobles = rich are getting in the best positions just because they are rich/noble while the real gifted ones are suppressed if they don't belong to the upper class.
One of the causes of the french army's superiority under Napoleon against all the noble's armies back then was promotion was done by competence, not by heritage. A simple peasant's private could become general. While in other armies officers were chosen only from nobles, not matter how incompetent they were, and sergeants' job was to herd soldiers like cattle, otherwise they deserted and flew. So back then the french army had by far the best motivated soldiers, so have been most efficient, have beaten several armies similar equipped and larger in numbers (I'm talking about the time before 1812.)

And you simply cannot blame the kids for it.
Kids just swim the best they can in the pool you throw them in. If they don't behave the way you want them to change the situation, but don't blame the kids. It's like laboratory mice you put into some labyrinth. If the mouse simply climbs over the wall to get to the cheese, it is you and your labyrinth to blame, not the mouse.

We need to ban AI chatbots from tests/exams - otherwise those make no sense at all. Or we need to get rid off tests, exams and grades and find other ways to guarantee somebody graduated brings the according knowledge. Because I don't want to be operated by somebody who claims to be a physician and says, 'I never removed an appendix before, but ChatGPT will tell me what to do. Nurse, what's this "blood pressure" means on this monitor over there?'

But for that you have to create an environment where kids can and want learn in a reasonable way.
One cannot only demand, one also have to give.

Maybe there will come something good from all of that, and we get a reformation that finally upgrades our education system, instead of dimantling it even more.

🐁🧀☕📖🥬🍁☀️🤓😎
Prussian military prowess had four key components, almost everyone copied (in Europe at least):
1. Merit based officer system (certainly more open than aristocratic/hereditary mafia model leading to degeneracy)
2. Education system where they taught every trooper to read at least - that way integrity of the orders could be guaranteed even in case when fallen officer was surpassed by some lower rank, which previously could not read.
3. Units were given greater autonomy - authority to take initiative, not waiting on orders from the general
4. General staff institution - delegation of tasks, specialization, so generals could deal with strategy/tactics only while logistics and accounting was delegated.

It had great success and was adopted for industrial needs, i.e. when every peasant can read and has a chance to rise in ranks and take initiative, the nation is more successful and companies work better when you have managers and CEO like general staff.

Thus modern schooling was born.

However, there are limitations - like not enough GOOD teachers - Ai can help here with personalized tutoring.
And a problem we tend to ignore for political/idealistic egalitarian reasons. Though everyone should have the chance to be sovereign even if not born the king, many just don't have the mental capacity or character to do so. Many just can't learn beyond third grade skills and any effort to teach them will just frustrate them. Some amount of pressure is necessary but it is impossible to calculate for the whole group. We split them by age but that is not enough and robs them from broader experiences - in real life you need to navigate within people of all age spectrum.

And incentive problem - state school client is the teacher (union) and politicians-the system itself, because beside reading, kids also learn loyalty to the system.
What is good for the kid is not the priority. Kid < Parents < Teachers < the state (current ruling mafia, who made it on top and wants to remain there)

Hopefully, with coming automation, people will once again work less and closer to home, form bigger communities and kids can learn there, instead of being off loaded to institution. They can have the best personal teacher possible with Ai and spend most day roaming the community learning from humans of different age and skill set.
And do more of the proper learning, which is self-created experiments - that is how toddlers learn before they are straight-jacketed and put in uniform.

Ironically, I believe these kids will be even better soldiers if they decide to take the uniform, eventually, than the Prussian cadet school style ones.
We just need the current parasitic mafia rulers to either lose their fear or their thrones or their moronic scared heads.
1604158853923.jpg
 
The "you'll own nothing" part of the slogan was the complete original version that they were going to go live with, but after some early focus group sessions, they realised it was a bit too stark and in-your-face, and somewhat lacking in public appeal; so after giving it some thought for a few weeks ("I want you guys to finesse this! What are we paying you for?!") they added "and you'll be happy" for 'flannel'. The intent and meaning remained unchanged from the original.

It's like when a politician tells you they are "listening"... nobody does it better.
 
Prussian military prowess [...]
...and some quote from way back ancient Greece from 460 BC.

Dude, when one believes in that stuff, one can get fascistic ideas. Ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecy?

The origins you are quoting are not false, but are from way - way - back complete other times. Times when not only war, but violence of all forms like robbery, rape and murder were daily common.
Ever wondered why on old paintings (see Pieter Bruegel the Elder for example, but also many others) many men are always armed? Well, without modern forensic police work there is almost no chance to catch a criminal when there are no witnesses testify for you. So directly always kill the victim to have no witnesses was quite normal.
Most of todays people have no idea how insecure it was at night before street lighting was invented. In Venice they placed the so called pissottas into street corners, not only to prevent public urinating (yupp, that's where those got their name), but above all to prevent criminals hiding there in the dark waiting for victims.
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Not you are not only setting 200 to 2500 year old situations equal to modern times, but you are also missing a crucial turn of events in western education systems:
The Sputnick crisis
As its result the education system in almost all western countries was (should be) freed from this "upper-class/rich/'elite' people" separation to gain a big education push. All schools were (should be) opened to all "classes". Graduation and authorization to higher schools were a matter of competence (grades), not heritage. At least should be. Scholarships and training assistance acts have been invoked to support talented, gifted and willing pupils and students, to allow them access to schools their parents couldn't afford otherwise. I don't want to stress all the details, all the differences in different countries, and all what not went perfectly, not worked, failed or could have been done better.
Anyway it was a large massive push in education we still live on. It's origin core main purpose was to win the space race and gain nuclear superiority, but I am very convinced that all modern science and technologie we today possess is also a result of that, and we wouldn't even have the half of it yet, when this education push had not happened.
Plus a very large part of the prosperity and wealth we have today is based on that.
Point is, that since the ~1970s (1969 Apollo 11 landed on the Moon) this is all driven back - slowly, step by step and with official other explanations, but there are people who want to go back to the old "upper class - lower classes" system - no matter the cost. We already facing for decades the lack of more and more missing competent youngsters in workforce - while our society did not shrink but grew. And we listen to the whining of economic crisis, while we have single people today even richer than whole countries growing even richer even faster while at the same time countries drown in their debts and more and more people, those who pay most of the taxes, cannot afford normal life anymore.
Back in my school days (1980s) pupils have been prepared to become scientists and being teached to become independent thinking, responsible democrats.
Today schools and universities are more some kind preparation for pupils and students become large joint-stock companies' workforce: "stfu and just do what you are told without asking questions!" (Insofar your comparison with military orientated prussian schools is not completely wrong. But the question is, where we were, and where we're heading to, giving up all the benefits we gained for no reasonable reason - even the rich cutting the branch they are sitting on themselves.)
There already is a massive tensions because of an growing gap in society, and more and more things do not match anymore.
As a result by an already crooked education system the stupid ones are almost majority believing in the solution was to vote for those who got us in that situation in the first place and worsen the situation by pushing this even further more.
 
I wonder what you guys think of Salman Khan's One World Schoolhouse book: https://net-workingworlds.weebly.co...460/the-one-world-schoolhouse-salman-khan.pdf
The old classroom model simply doesn’t fit our changing needs. It’s a fundamentally passive way of learning, while the world requires more and more active processing of information.The old model is based on pushing students together in age group batches with one-pace-fits-all curricula and hoping they pick up something along the way. It isn’t clear that this was the best model one hundred years ago; it certainly isn’t anymore.
I also wonder what he thinks of what he proposed in 2012 (or later using AI in education) in the light of incredibly powerful LLMs. [He tried using AI in education with his AI tutoring chatbot Khanmigo but it seems to have failed]
 
I wonder what you guys think of
Didn't know it, didn't read it (yet), but short:
The point ain't we wouldn't have no ideas for better education systems. In contrary we are bustling with lots of many very good ideas in any field for decades, not education only.
We could solve "economic crisis" and climate change, and make this world a better place for everybody within a few years - no problem.
The problem is no lack of good ideas.
The problem is, we don't do it.
The true question ain't, 'What can be improved how?' but, 'Why we don't do it?', why the majority always cling on "Back to the middle ages with full speed ahead!!" 🤪
 
fascistic ideas
Every common sense idea I come across, is called fascist.

I always thought, fascists were those 'state-corporate merger, nothing but the state', dudes, who started as socialists and just got a bit more nationalistic facing the nonsense of their more egalitarian comrades. who think everybody's the same...and it is, when you rob and shoot the high achievers.
 
Every common sense idea I come across, is called fascist.

I always thought, fascists were those 'state-corporate merger, nothing but the state', dudes, who started as socialists and just got a bit more nationalistic facing the nonsense of their more egalitarian comrades. who think everybody's the same...and it is, when you rob and shoot the high achievers.
If every common sense idea you come across is called fascist, have you considered that you might be a fascist?
 
Every common sense idea I come across, is called fascist.

I always thought, fascists were those 'state-corporate merger, nothing but the state', dudes, who started as socialists and just got a bit more nationalistic
You may better check out, what fascism actually means and maybe rethink your attidude to it, because you maybe simply misunderstood some things, since dictarorships not seldom came from starting the idea of socialism, but then abuse it to betray the people and create a system of authocracy and suppression. (Revolutions are to be avoided, because very barely they lead to something better, and anyway to massive destruction, suffering and pain.)
Anyway, simplified facism is a form of having a privileged "upper class" and one or more "lower classes" - "better" humans and humans not being seen as real humans with full rights. That's quite the opposite of every one being the same. Which is just a theoretical but impossible idea, while fascism quickly and easy is realized, just by simply giving in and doing nothing, particulary not defending democracy. And it's inherent that this will always bring massive pains and suffering if not war or worse to the people, because its whole point is to keep the authorities in power, only, while they only stay in charge by promise their followers to become richer which they can only do by sucking money from others, such as decreasing the number in the upper class while their opponents increase in numbers, which they only suppress... it's just a cycle of terrible destruction until it collapses. Doomed to fail anyway.
 
You may better check out, what fascism actually means and maybe rethink your attidude to it, because you maybe simply misunderstood some things, since dictarorships not seldom came from starting the idea of socialism, but then abuse it to betray the people and create a system of authocracy and suppression. (Revolutions are to be avoided, because very barely they lead to something better, and anyway to massive destruction, suffering and pain.)
Anyway, simplified facism is a form of having a privileged "upper class" and one or more "lower classes" - "better" humans and humans not being seen as real humans with full rights. That's quite the opposite of every one being the same. Which is just a theoretical but impossible idea, while fascism quickly and easy is realized, just by simply giving in and doing nothing, particulary not defending democracy. And it's inherent that this will always bring massive pains and suffering if not war or worse to the people, because its whole point is to keep the authorities in power, only, while they only stay in charge by promise their followers to become richer which they can only do by sucking money from others, such as decreasing the number in the upper class while their opponents increase in numbers, which they only suppress... it's just a cycle of terrible destruction until it collapses. Doomed to fail anyway.
Every system defaults to Feudalism - self-select few super-glued to the throne. Unless you aggressively keep meritocratic republic by means of earned voting privilege to keep the ruling elite, who actually earn it, open and healthy.
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now & then you have the French revolution , and then you have Mao
Norks are basically hereditary monarchy. In Russia there is FSB aristocracy ruling. In China there are cca 20 family clans running the show (but this might be wrong). We have Bush, Clinton and Trump dynasty attempts but I would say the real rulers are smartly not to be seen, probably some variant of Iron Bank style dynasty.

Secret Police is usually the strongest - they have the best info and guns and jails. But they can be rented. If you have the money printing press, that is easy to do but still risky - the Praetorian guard can just take it anytime.
Military are usually in disadvantage (info not as good) despite better guns, unless the secret police fracture and fail to arrest them in time.
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According to reddit, everyone who disagrees with anyone is a fascist. The discussion of what is fascist is everywhere and everyone's a fascist. Now it's found it's way here.

Is it time for me to move on? I always thought political commentary was off topic here. Or at least I thought the members would avoid such topics for the sake of social discretion.

Far too often political commentary has found its way here and I'm uncomfortable and sometimes offended.
 
In my years of school - calculator was forbidden. We had no internet so to know highest mountain, deepest lake, shortest river etc - was learnt at school or trough some books and not trough internet.
In my opinion: current education is made to dumb people down , including what to hate, what to cherish and what to ignore. AI is another tool as if you use AI and wont do any research just blindly believe in it - world will be Idiocracy sooner when we thought.
Research usually brings attention and some memories.
 
If every common sense idea you come across is called fascist, have you considered that you might be a fascist?
If bloody fascists are the bearers of common sense (I doubt it, not my experience), then I will proudly enter their camp. No reason to be in clown tent, just because it has nicer label.
 
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