Amiga vs Atari ST

Pick one! (Or two or three)


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The Final Countdown NASA used the Amiga in Hanger AE for laumch vehicle telemetry & mission communications, i saw a video filmed in the late 90s. I still have my Amiga's in various states of repair. A4000, A1500 & A500.
 
I have an Amiga 500, 4000/030 and a 1200. Still working as far as I know, although they've been stored away for quite some time (lacking the space to set it all up).

Bought the 500 with money I earned from a summer job ('87 probably). Loved everything about it. Bought the 4000 second hand much later. In hindsight payed way too much for it, but I really, really wanted it. Used the 4000 and a 28K8 modem to get on the internet for the first time (around '95, not entirely sure). The 1200 was my brother's, he wanted to get rid if it, and gave it to me.
 
Our family friend and I with our beloved 1040ST in 1986. Look at all the finger smears on that screen!
 

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I had an A500, and later an A2000.

I really loved this machine - was nice computering, intelligent design, logical, intuitive, already real multitasking, above all almost rock solid stable, shell, sophisticated GUI, scripting language, C compiler, tons of games, lots of open source software ported to it,...ran LaTeX while those early MS Word versions were no fun at all to "work" with - Amiga users were laughing on Windows users in several ways those days 😁
It was somehow unixlike. It was heaven.

Until the early 2000s app. every 3..4 years all computers became complete obsolete garbage. Not like today: A fifteen year old machine maybe slow(er), but still usable. Coming from earlier times the A2000 bravely kept step with all those early Windows PCs: 286? piece of cake! 386? easy. 486? well, not in her prime anymore, but still usable. But when the first 586 (Pentium) became standard it simply couldn't keep up anymore. The A2000 finally was way too slow for a usable daily work on the things became standard to be done with a PC. So - sadly - I mothballed it into cardboard boxes, stowed it away, and got my first Windows (95) PC - it was hate at first sight :cool:. But what to do? There have been no matching Amiga. Linux and FreeBSD (I didn't knew yet) were in their very baby steps, and nothing for my situation back then anyway. And Unix machines were simply by far unaffordable for a student.

I moved the cardboard boxes containing my A2000 over many years into several new flats with me. One day a friend told me:"Dude, you will never do anything with this thing again, ever." I ignored that weisenheimer. Bravely I kept moving the carboard boxes with me into every new flat. There were already Amiga emulators for Windows and Linux, coming with almost all the stuff I had somewhere in my three banana boxes completely stuffed with 3.5"-diskettes.

One weekend I decided to assemble it again, just to prove that weisenheimer wrong. It worked like I never switched it off. After a couple of hours I realized: That ass was right: I am not going to do anything with it again anymore, ever. The games, which I have played excessively, only bored me after a few minutes. And if I could play them on an emulator anyway. For the rest: LaTeX, programming,...anything else, the machine was more unusable than ever, and I saw no sense but a waste of time only why doing any production on and for it.

It had its time. This time was great! But it's over. I see no sense in storing junk occupying space only, just to cling on a history that won't come back. Reactivating the old thing again brought disillusions to me, only - better memories had been kept when I let it turned off.
So I brought it to the local waste disposal and tossed it all in the garbage.

When I have the need for some nostalgia, which happens app. every four years, and last for less than an hour - I look at some screenshots I find on the internet. And I'm fine with that. No need to have that old, large case, the heavy monitor, and the three banana cardboard boxes stored all the time for this, until one day the machine will not work anymore anyway, maybe by a sudden strike in the tube monitor...just to realize then: I better had dumped it earlier.
Its name was Amiga, not Esposa :cool:

And before some one comes again an implys I was 'generalizing', not respecting other peoples needs:
I can fully comprehend, why some keep their, or collect old machines. And of course, everybody can do it as she or he likes it. It's just not for me.
 
Sadly, they never did pull off the switch to the PowerPC correctly. That would have been a hoot. I did my first commercial software on the Amiga, and it brought me to where I am. Customer support was interesting, best were a hospital in ungary, who used them for CT/MRT scans (yes, simply DMA into memory without the hiccup the DMA-MMUs did those days) and then NASA who used them for real-time control of launches (hope I can tell that now).
 
Sadly, they never did pull off the switch to the PowerPC correctly.
At some point I had a choice, spend ~ fl. 3000,- on an accelerator card for a platform that's been effectively dead for a couple of years, or spend that money on a PC build. Spent it on a PC, a Pentium II - 350MHz, with a much, much faster and better graphics card. That was the system I installed FreeBSD on :)
 
Yeah, flamewar!

I had Atari ST 1040 STfm with SM124 Mono monitor (640x400), originally TOS 1.04, 1M RAM, built in DS 720K 3.5" FDD. Later, AFAIR ~90, upgraded (modded is better word, there was a lot of soldering) to 4M RAM, TOS 2.06 and 1.44M FDD.

'm' in STfm stood for 'modulator', so I could connect it directly to TV when I wanted to play games which worked only in lower color resolutions, but I didn't game much on it.

I also had Spectre GCR Mac emulator (System 6), and PC-Ditto PC emulator (MS-DOS 3.2).

I used it mostly for DTP – Calamus on GEM and PageMaker on System 6, my late dad who was music professor used it for Cubase, Notator and few more PRGs I can't remember.

Rest of my time I was spending "online" - I had Supra modem, so I was connecting to various BBSes here in Serbia, but most of the time I was connecting to university VAX to learn and play with VMS. ST had built-in VT52 in ROM and VT100 cartridge (which I didn't have), but I was using German PRG Rufus, which was great terminal emulator, it supported [X|Y|Z]modem, ANSI and huge set of VT2xx commands.

Also, my first contact with Unix was on ST. I acquired access to privileged acc on VMS (don't ask 😉 ) which had exit to X.25, then hop to the X.25/IP gateway, there typed IP of some Canadian university and log in into SunOS (again, don't ask where I got this acc)

Also, in '91 I got Minix for ST, so one can say that I was "distro hopping" on my Atari ST before Linux was even invented 😁

P.S. Edit: What IDK at the time, that ST used dedicated "monochrome detect" pin on its video connector, which is used to signal the system when a monochrome monitor is connected. When this pin is grounded, the ST switches to high-resolution monochrome mode; if left open, it operates in medium or low-resolution color modes. There were few "switches" commercially available (and it's easy to DIY one) for people who had both mono SM124 and color SC1224, but best thing is that Commodore 1084 (Philips CM8833) can do both ST mono HiRes and color LowRes when connected to the switch, so one monitor was enough!
 
I started real programming on Amiga. loved that machine and culture around it, but stepped away when endless battles began. Amiga died inside Commodore, hippy intelligentsia moved forwards.
 
Well, SOMEWHERE I still have the 300Baud coupler for phone handsets...

Interestingly, both the ST and the Amiga share one person - Jack Tramiel. The rivals were indeed brothers, and I would like to say that this is why they got ahead, each one pushing the other.

There will be a cold day in hell when they take my A3oooT from me. And they need to come not alone, that thing is heavy. Also, it'll be more easy to hit someone over the head with the bridge board (NEC V40 if I remember correctly). The A2024 screen was a nice idea, I wrote quite some good things on that. Gaming was out of the question, though, any sprite would have 10cm of a trail.

My brother did his thesis on dads A3000 running LaTeX, earning him the hate of the years to come at the uni department. They had to compete using Word(tm), it was not a technical place. And that thing simply looked like a professional done paper the professors knew from books and conferences.

Both were, at times, running NetBSD/68k. Dad worked with the HP Apollo Workstations and found it a good equivalent for home use. I messed around with NetBSD, made the first "Bugger it, need to reinstall everything" mistakes and untill I did learn about the pkg commands I build all I wanted from source packages. Like, manually doing the M4 stuff in Makefile.in and such idiotic things. Was rewarded with xpilot then, or crossfire.

SirDice Have you tried AROS on some more recent hardware? This is what we might have been having today. But we don't.
 
Interestingly, both the ST and the Amiga share one person - Jack Tramiel. The rivals were indeed brothers, and I would like to say that this is why they got ahead, each one pushing the other.
AFAIK, Atari had lent $500K to the Amiga Corporation, but that was before Tramiel was ousted from Commodore and bought Atari. His son found out about that debt which was due at the end of June '84, and they tried to buy Amiga, but Commodore wanted to "stick it" to Tramiel for taking bunch of Commodore engineers with him to Atari and bought Amiga in August for $27M, including paying off the loan from Atari. As they say, the rest is history.
 
Both were, at times, running NetBSD/68k
Near the end I started looking for alternatives and had found NetBSD. Unfortunately my 4000/030 has a 68EC030, which lacked the MMU required to run NetBSD :(

SirDice Have you tried AROS on some more recent hardware?
Have looked at it a couple of times over the years but never actually installed it on anything. Nowadays I mostly get my Amiga kicks from emulators/fs-uae and Cloanto's Amiga Forever.
 
Yeah, flamewar!
The Amiga 500 was clearly the superior machine; better graphics which was obvious when a game was compared to the same game on the ST, Deluxe Paint, and true multitasking as already mentioned somewhere in this thread. It also had an early virus which was harmless and simply displayed a message saying something like "Something wonderful has happened, your Amiga has been infected with a virus!" It would also attempt to replicate itself on any diskette that was inserted. Its presence was easily detected (at least in 68000 assembler) by checking if any memory had been occupied when a diskette was inserted after a clean boot.

Sure, the ST had MS-DOS compatible diskettes, but why would anyone want that? OK, the ST had a MIDI interface too which was useful to musicians, but that is not nearly as useful as a graphics workstation is to all the artists out there. The ST was just the cheaper of the two, and you got what you paid for.
 
I had the ST. Both ST and Amiga were glorified gaming consoles and (kind of) sucked at (nearly) everything else no matter what the hardcore fans will tell you.
Thats why their higher end / expensive models failed miserably in the market place (no business value in them).
nintendo and sega defeated the cheaper models and ibm/compaq/clones wiped out the rest. they would be as dead with powerpc as well.
 
I had the ST. Both ST and Amiga were glorified gaming consoles and (kind of) sucked at (nearly) everything else no matter what the hardcore fans will tell you.
Thats why their higher end / expensive models failed miserably in the market place (no business value in them).
nintendo and sega defeated the cheaper models and ibm/compaq/clones wiped out the rest. they would be as dead with powerpc as well.
AmigaOS had pre-emptive multitasking 10 years before Windows got it.
 
so you could run invaders and pacman at the same time ?
macos classic never had it and still beat them. multitasking does not necessarily make a computer more useful
also os half had better whatever and still failed for various reasons
 
It also had an early virus which was harmless
Had plenty of not-so-harmless viruses too. At some point I got so fed up with it I wrote my own virusscanner that was able to detect and remove 5 different viruses. A few I still remember "Lamer Exterminator" (survived a reset and 'encrypted' its payload, it randomly overwrote sectors with "Lamer Exterminator" repeatedly), "Byte Bandit", and one that hooked into the Amiga's disk.library (that one was a pain).
 
The Amiga 500 was clearly the superior machine; better graphics which was obvious when a game was compared to the same game on the ST, Deluxe Paint, and true multitasking as already mentioned somewhere in this thread. It also had an early virus which was harmless and simply displayed a message saying something like "Something wonderful has happened, your Amiga has been infected with a virus!" It would also attempt to replicate itself on any diskette that was inserted. Its presence was easily detected (at least in 68000 assembler) by checking if any memory had been occupied when a diskette was inserted after a clean boot.

Sure, the ST had MS-DOS compatible diskettes, but why would anyone want that? OK, the ST had a MIDI interface too which was useful to musicians, but that is not nearly as useful as a graphics workstation is to all the artists out there. The ST was just the cheaper of the two, and you got what you paid for.
IDK about US, but in European markets number of professional ST users (mostly musicians and DTP) was much, much higher than pro Amiga users. True, Amiga had superior color graphics, but that was important only to gamers (and that only after A500). Only pro Amiga users over here (that I know of) were Toaster folks, but there was not so many of them. So, from the ROI POV, ST was much better choice. 😁
 
im not angry at all. its just annoying when the die hards tell you how great the amiga was nearly onyx workstation and such bs. they would not even exist if it wasn't for video games. if they shipped without a keyboard just with a joystick the sales would have been probably about the same preemptive multitasking or not
 
im not angry at all. its just annoying when the die hards tell you how great the amiga was nearly onyx workstation and such bs. they would not even exist if it wasn't for video games. if they shipped without a keyboard just with a joystick the sales would have been probably about the same preemptive multitasking or not
Intended use of A4000: Workstation
Actual use of A4000: Workstation
Intended use of A500: Cheap workstation
Actual use of A500: Gaming system

See. Something can be made for a different purpose than it was used for, and besides, the "big box" models (A2k A3k, A4k) were used as workstations. I mean an 80's gaming console doesn't have an FPU
 
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