Write good, descriptive titles for posts

Back in the Usenet days there were posted rules and article about postings and having good, descriptive titles. Now I see this in all social media but notice it here more often lately. A thread is started with a title such as "Computers" or "Is there such a thing?!" (I'm trying not to point to specific exising titles.)

It's annoying to run through the list of "New posts" and clicking on things I know nothing about, can't help or have no interest in. To my dismay, there have been times when I've ignored such posts only to find out much later that I did have an interest or expertise in and could have been very helpful only to be too late to the party.

So, please, write titles that describe what the thread is about. It's good internet etiquette, too.
 
I just agree with that. I recall these old days when all the web was only English writing. When all was open and not threatened. Rules applied without menace.

These times are over and it's getting worse.

It remains good topics and people. I focus on those.
 
Not to start a fight, as I like both AlfredoLlaquet and drhowarddrfine, but while it is a first world problem, though not as bad as the ultimate one (my oreo cookie is too big to dunk in my glass of milk), it's a small thing that can be helpful. The only caveat I'd offer is that when you are new to something, it's difficult--that is, if you're new to tech forums, it's difficult to know what is a good title. What is enough information? Shucks, I've been here forever, and someone rightfully criticized me for asking for help without giving any useful info to help others help me, as the old customer service line goes. (Insert line about good old days when there was customer service).

So, I agree with both of you. :) It is a first world problem, but it is annoying. But I do want to add that for new comers or non-native speakers, it's difficult to know the right way to do it. Most of the people on this forum, if not native speakers, still seem to have excellent English, and I will point out that we don't see any subjects like PLZ HELP!! BROKE SYSTEM, NEED HELP ASAP THX, so, I think people do make an effort.
 
fernandel, I guess you're older than I thought. :)

Forums and mailing lists used to be, generally speaking, a lot harsher on newcomers. I think that drhowarddrfine, and myself disagree on it being a good thing that things are easier today. My feeling is that the more people interested, the more both hardware and software vendors will pay attention. My memory is probably wrong here, but it seems to me that Ubuntu, which was the Mint of its day, that is, easy to install and use, and being gentle to newcomers, raised the popularity of Linux. (And yeah, I know Mint is based on Ubuntu and Debian, my point is that when Ubuntu first came out, it was easy to install and use, and generally Just Worked(TM),). Anyway, I think that its lowering of the entry bar brought in lots of people, which influenced both hardware and software vendors to spend resources making things to work with it. My impression is drhowarddrfine, disagrees, feeling if it gets too accessible, the forum will flooded with the sort who do post things like, I can't get my system to boot, plz hlp thnx.
 
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My impression is drhowarddrfine, disagrees, feeling if it gets too accessible, the forum will flooded with the sort who do post things like, I can't get my system to boot, plz hlp thnx.
Not at all. I just want people to have descriptive titles. That I don't want the uncleaned masses using FreeBSD is a different story.
 
On BBS'es like NiftyServe existed in Japan (I guess it was made similar to CompuServe), forums and stations were operated by paid-back SYSOP'es (with helps of some unpaid SUBSYS'es) and rules were made per-{forum|station} and some forums / stations had more local rules per rooms inside them.

How actively SYSOP'es worked on, how strict SYSOP'es manage were per SYSOP. So harshnesses strongly depended upon who's the SYSOP.
But to maximize the pay-backs, SYSOP'es usually worked hard to make the forum / station comfortable for registered users. (Some too offensive users were usually BAN'ed from the forum / station to protect sane users.)

And basically, if I recall correctly, there were no title fields for posts to rooms, unlike direct mails. The titles were "per-room", not "per-post". Just like thread titles here, but set by SYSOP'es, not by regular users. This would be a large difference.
 
Oh, and please don't start new topics with the following subjects:
* Help!
* Question!!!
* Newbie here!
* I'm stuck ! :(
* etc.
Use a topic title that describes the problem.
 
Also describe which commands you typed in command-line , and what where its outputs.
There are no wrong or bad commands, but lack of specifying , yeaah...
 
Don't worry, it'll probably appear. And even if the user has researched, it may not be an obvious error. For example, they do some searching, read FreeBSD is similar to Linux--and it's so obvious to a FreeBSD user that they might not even think to mention that Systemd is a Linux thing. I think I've seen a term for it, where someone who knows a lot writes a tutorial and leaves out some basics because they're so obvious to the writer.
 
You can always try the tried and true "object - deviation" method. I first learned about it from ESR's "how to ask questions ...".

ref:
ah very informative link. Thanks. BTW, the link favors a "Google is your friend/RTFM" approach. For some reasons, nowdays, this approach is considered rude from many.

The "writing the title after the post, not before" is not mentioned in the linked article. It is a recurrent suggestions about writing academic papers: the best moment when writing the abstract and the title is after the completion of the paper, because it is the moment when someone has clear idea, and they can be really concise.
 
I'll take your word for it (that the order is not mentioned in that article).

I, personally do:
1. Write my title.
2. Write my body.
3. Revise title (if necessary) --after I've been given the opportunity to explain my problem (to the duck).

Why would 'RTFM' be considered rude?
...that's an open-ended statement/question so, I maybe:

If I didn't know how to "move" a file and I typed a question.
[You] respond with a "RTFM man mv" I cannot be mad because I didn't know the term I needed was "mv" not "move".
But I guess, if [you] omitted the 'man mv' portion from your response, I suppose I would be annoyed.


People are funny, aren't they (silly people)? But I do find that specific interaction interesting. -i.e. when the person helping gets offended that their response was considered rude and dismissed. I've done this myself. Given the proper advice, called an a55, someone else comes in with the same advice (as me) and gets called a genius (the interesting part being more often than not, I was "hurt" at being called 'rude' for some reason).
 
"Google is your friend/RTFM" approach. For some reasons, nowdays, this approach is considered rude from many.
Point is, (many; majority?) today's people are lazy and spoilt, because they are used to just pick everything from silver platters they are offered to them by no request. They cannot even differ what comes from consumer industry for to sell something to them, or comes from other sources, like learning things for themselves, to do independently things by themselves, for themselves. Even that is for many not to grasp, way too abstract.
And they are used to anybody else has to do their thinking for them. You can see it daily in public: They blindly run everywhere not looking. They learned "you are the most precious creature, and everybody else have to look out for you." Well, partially yes, everybody has to look out for everybody. But when somebody suddenly jumps unexpected on the pedestrian crossing or simply stops directly at the very end of an escalator while other people follow, there simply is no chance at all to avoid a crash. Completely strange concept to many today. No understanding what I mean with this anymore. But of course it's not allowed to call them stupid. They are all Einsteins, of course. They learn less, they know less, they care less, because they don't have to anymore, but what they achieved best is not to be treated as what they actually are: idiots.

They want to ask questions like "How do I get a nice garden?", expecting simple primitive answers like "Press the green button." And then there has to be a nice garden by just pressing a button. If not, others need to take care of that, beginning with the question, what a nice garden is - as they've seen in media, e.g. like some celebratie's garden. They are not even capable to decide anymore for themselves what nice is.
When some 'old farts' like me come along, asking questions, producing a problem instead of delivering solutions, give simple answers, like 'Define, what a nice garden for you is. What is its size? What climate region we are talking? There are many different kind plants, just ornamental or with fruits to eat. What do you want? They all need special treatment. For that there are different tools, fertilizer and other stuff. And there are additionally other things, like glass houses, toolsheds, ponds, with fish or without...' or the ultimate total overkill question, 'How many hours per week do you expect to spend on it?' they are overchallenged. Bluescreen.😰
They simply don't understand that there is a crucial difference between a question like this one, or a question like "Do I have to stop at a red light?", and not everything can be learned by just asking yes-no-questions.
They are way beyond the understanding, that you may ask in a forums which tool is best to cut roses, but for such a large, general, open question how to create a garden anybody else can only give some rough pointers, but it's absolutely necessarily required to ask and answer a lot of questions yourself.
And that's best be done by reading one or sometimes even many books about a certain topic. Because books contain the comprehensive ideas, thoughts and experiences in an assorted way assembled what is needed to learn comprehensive things.
Otherwise it'll end up in dozens of threads lost in minor and already way to advanced details, while the very basics are completely lacking, like having discussions about the prices of noble kois while it's not even clear yet what a lawnmower is.
And it's also not seen, that all this fragmented short text postings not only deliver way less informations on a comprehensive topic than reading a comprehensible text, but in summary it's even more text.
So, trying to save reading and learning effort by reading evem more and learning less. 🤪😂

So, yes, even if "RTFM!" comes a bit rude, it's always with good intensions. It comes only rude, because deep down the addressed person knows she or he better had done it so in the first place and feels caught. Producing bad feelings is prohibited today. We all must live in pinky Disney crap denying reality to be lucky. But bad feelings like agony are for telling us something is wrong, so things can be corrected. Sometimes it's just because the others are idiots, but not always. And everybody better at least actually checks if it's really only because of others are the idiots instead of automatically always blame others for a bad feeling, and being in charge for delivering good ones.
On the other hand asking inconsiderate and silly questions, especially when the question is already answered, and then reacting pissed, when there is no quick, simple answer to complex questions, and finally blame others for not learning anything, so stealing other's time for being too lazy themself, is even more rude.
🤓
 
Forums have become, generally, nicer places, and just saying to someone RTFM can often be considered rude. Like everything else, it depends upon context. For example, if I wrote a fairly dumb question, and one of the people here with whom I have a generally good relationship, wrote RTFM, I'd laugh. (Although I remember some person's signature, I don't think it was here, that read, I RTFM and it said ask you people.) As for the whole, people are spoiled and spoonfed, like everything else it depends upon context. And Maturin is one who, if he answered a question of mine with RTFM, I'd laugh and not take it as an insult. Yet, I disagree with the whole garden thing--some folks are like that, but then there are also folks, willing and eager to learn who would ask, How do I get a good garden. I don't know where to start, I've web searched gardening and found I should do X, but not sure what the next step is. I think there are many people like that too, who want to ask the right questions, but aren't sure how to start.

TLDR; In my opinion, it's very much a case by case thing.
 
And Maturin is one who, if he answered a question of mine with RTFM, I'd laugh and not take it as an insult.
... also because it is a lot way quicker reading the fucking manual, or also Knuth, that a Maturin's answer :-)

I'm 50% joking. They are too much long, but usually I read them all, skimming only few parts. (edit: there is always something of important, and at this point the long form is a style choice)
 
Yeah, it's not always that black and white, as I described it - but I wanted to make a point about to at least try yourself first, before asking unconsidered questions, which some do, some don't.
 
Now is not much used, but I were selling a product, and giving assistance to my customers. It had a proper manual. We agree on this: before asking me a question they would try to solve the problem themselves. Then in the support request, they had to shortly describe what they tried.

In this way, I can: help them; improve the documentation (in case); being sure that they become more experts, and not lazily depending only from me. (edit: and also being in position to understand better my answers).
 
This rule should also apply to computer programs and scripts with text output.
Llke "operation not permitted" and no further explanation while being physical root is equally lacking information. This leads to sloppyness and bad forum posts. 😆
 
This rule should also apply to computer programs and scripts with text output.
Llke "operation not permitted" and no further explanation while being physical root is equally lacking information. This leads to sloppyness and bad forum posts. 😆

This is actually one of the things I don't like about UNIX. There is very limited ability to transport useful error messages from kernel to userland for a userland program to display. As a hack workaround, there is lots of basic error codes returned to userland and then a printf to dmesg. That's not quite cutting it in my opinion.

There's some API work for better error message transport but the details escape me right now.
 
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