İs FreeBSD good?

AlfredoLlaquet said:
Heretofore the saying went that any prolonged discussion ended up being about semantics. Now, it seems that any prolonged technical discussion ends up being about AI.
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We have some useful discussion about AI. In threads that are about AI. And they don't contain slop. Especially not 3 pages worth of slop.
 
AlfredoLlaquet said:
Still didn't see the 3 pages of slop. I must be missing something obvious or you must be referring not to this thread. Don't worry about it; it's unimpor
AlfredoLlaquet said:
Still didn't see the 3 pages of slop. I must be missing something obvious or you must be referring not to this thread. Don't worry about it; it's unimportant.
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He is exaggerating, but doing it in a very aggressive manner, which is unprofessional.
 
POSIX.1 said:
And who will find the security issues created and implanted by AI? AI serves the stupids best.
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"Who watches the watchers"

cracauer@ said:
That's still no reason to post AI slop on a forum.
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Agreed.

At the moment, I look at AI generated security things like an item in a Coverity report. It may be legitimate, it may be a false positive, it may be something else.
Bottom line is AI like every other tool needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Take a look at what it says, don't take it as Gospel, verify and double check.

This is not unique to AI; I think every tool, even things like Lint, needs to have the item verified.

Just my human opinion based on a personal "default deny" stance on trust.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
I read somewhere that you need to be a serious computer enthusiast to run FreeBSD so I don't think it would be right for the OP.
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Of course they're going to say that, they're Linux users.

You don't need to be a serious enthusiast to run FreeBSD, the community skews that way primarily because there isn't much awareness outside of that group that it even exists. When I first installed it decades ago that was probably true as you had to do things like work out what modelines your particular monitor needed in order to get X11R6 to run and getting it wrong could potentially damage the monitory. But, these days, it's not that hard to do, you just have to be able to follow the directions on your phone while running a few basic commands that don't usually vary that much to get the GUI up and running.
 
hedwards said:
When I first installed it decades ago that was probably true as you had to do things like work out what modelines your particular monitor needed in order to get X11R6 to run and getting it wrong could potentially damage the monitory. But, these days, it's not that hard to do, you just have to be able to follow the directions on your phone
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Isn't it kind of otherworldly how much things have changed in less than a human lifetime? Imagine trying to explain how things are now to someone back then.
 
I am perfectly serious. FreeBSD is not for the every day person who has no interest in studying how the system works to install a desktop and make config files to run it as he pleases. One has to be the type of person who wants to do these things and will spend the time to research it. You have to want it.

It's not for Windows people who don't want to pay for Windows anymore. It's not for Linux people who just want Ubuntu to play games on and don't want to learn anything to install it.

And Alfredo Alvarado you said you are an everyman who isn't a serious enthusiast yet you often post here technical terms about FreeBSD that my wife would never understand.

These comments are not negatives against FreeBSD.
 
One could well wonder about the obsessive posting of "everyman" here in the FreeBSD forums, annoying not a few other members here.

The phenomenon of users becoming annoyed by posters who frequently contribute short, irrelevant, or low-quality text, often referred to as "noise" or "clutter", is getting a relevant problem for online communities. This behavior disrupts the cooperative nature of online discourse and violates established social norms.

Those "everyman", and we have here quite some, do it just because they can. They are allowed to be a pain for others. And that has consequences for the whole community.
 
jbo@ said:
DRM is gonna be a problem tho (which applies if you want to use youtube movies/music or whatever it's called).
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My kids needed widevine on one of their systems connected to a tv. I installed the Linux widevine cdm port.


The service works using chromium.

NapoleonWils0n

Thread 'Chromium enable drm playback by building the www/linux-widevine-cdm port with Poudriere'

Chromium has been recently patched to enable Widevine support as mentioned in the post

This lets you play widevine drm encrypted audio and video,
so you can watch things like Netflix, Channel4 and ITV in the UK or other video services that use widevine drm or listen to Spotify

I have written a how guide to install the www/linux-widevine-cdm port with Poudriere

and how to set up virtual_oss to create a loopback device for sndiod audio
so we can record the audio from chromium "which use sndiod audio and not pulse" with obs studio



Building the...
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AlfredoLlaquet said:
One thing that FreeBSD has over any other OS, as you can see, is a passionate community eager to help. That's for sure.
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This is very true. In the FreeBSD forums, I have never had someone tell me to "Use the source, Luke", even when I asked rookie questions. I spent many years, off and on, trying to get a working desktop on FreeBSD and failing. I would always get some error that I didn't understand. Once I started following the forums, it got *much* easier. There is almost always someone on the forum that has run into your problem before.

That said, there are a few things that are less likely to work out of the box, since I think manufacturers talk to Microsoft more than they talk to FreeBSD developers. For example, I have recently installed FreeBSD on various small PCs, like the MSI CUBI 5, NEOSMAY thin client, and KAMRUI GK3 Plus. There are often quirks that cause problems. There are overrides that fix the problems, and the forums will tell you about them. And I am still having trouble with Wi-Fi and the 2.5Gb Ethernet connection on a couple of machines.

Unlike Windows, and a few Linux distros, FreeBSD is not constantly giving you ads, trying to get you to use OneDrive, or sign up for MineCraft, or trying to shove AI down your throat. This is a very relaxing part of using FreeBSD.

FreeBSD changes to support new platforms and technologies, but it doesn't change just because. One thing that encouraged me to leave Linux, was after I'd learned some commands, I would find that they had all changed because SystemD had decided to take over that component. (There's a running joke that instead of being GNU/Linux, it will soon become SystemD/Linux.) There are parts of FreeBSD where the way you configure them has not changed in a long time, which makes it easier to build up a body of understanding of how the system works.

So if you want something that is a drop-in replacement for Linux or Window, with no effort on your part, FreeBSD isn't there yet, and may never be there, because that is not its focus. But with improvements that make installation easier (like automatic X/Windows configuration) and help from the forums, mere mortals have a good chance for a good user experience with FreeBSD.
 
With few exceptions, FreeBSD is absolutely not for the migrant from Windows, nor is it for Linux users fleeing systemd. FreeBSD requires some reading, work and effort on the part of the user. I recall reading a comment by a Linux users who attempted to migrate to FreeBSD. They were back using Linux within days, using words to the effect that their experience had been somewhat akin to going back to the 90s.

For most part the crowd who fled systemd, for "systemd-less Linux" distributions didn't do that for any technical reasons - it was mostly part of an ideological crusade and/or distrust of big tech.

While there is a technical basis in distributions such as Devuan (i.e. those doing the work are generally assumed to be doing it for the right reasons), the "fans" who have swarmed around these projects consist of various conspiracy driven types who repeatedly post misinformation and activist types who flock to "anti" platforms. You observe a lot of "systemd is Windows svchost" and "systemd is a registry" assertions from people who make no technical contributions whatsoever. There are so many who don't want, distrust or outright hate systemd, but when questioned cannot give you any sound technical reasoning. What is clear is that systemd was always a Red Hat product and engineered to suite a specific business case. For many that's enough - but they conveniently ignore the massive corporate funding and control of the Linux kernel.

Those exiting Windows due to W10 EoL for example, have numerous options available. For those who just want something that works, the landscape is very different now to how it was 20 years ago. I recall the horrible Ubuntu releases of 2007 -> 2009 where there was a lot of marketing but next to no quality control. Nowadays it's fine for your granny but there are numerous alternatives.

Directing people from either camp towards FreeBSD is likely to be a waste of their time and yours.
 
As someone recently getting into *BSD systems, I think that for people moving from Windows the Linux experience with the right distribution is an easier path to follow, particularly on a laptop. The end result isn't necessarily better with Linux or FreeBSD - I am not going to pitch one against the other because although I have been in the Linux space for 30 years, I don't have enough experience with *BSD to make a comparison. I would also suggest that which is "better" is a totally subjective opinion, which depends on a multitude of factors both inside the operating system, and outside. For my own personal use, my foray into FreeBSD on my Lenovo X390 was a challenge with the network setup, because the USB network connection disappears when unplugged, so any attempt to setup a lagg interface as recommended by the handbook doesn't work "out of the box". I know it can be made to run hands off with devd, but it isn't a simple setup. On the other hand, under Linux, it just works - plug in the cable, the connection is recognised and initialised (and wifi runs >10x faster). At the moment, I have swapped out the nvme drive on that laptop and replaced my Linux nvme drive as I use the laptop for day to day stuff. I have two other older laptops (X270 models) - one has FreeBSD and one has OpenBSD. I am using these to learn more about BSD before moving my home server from Proxmox to FreeBSD with jails. For my regular desktop use, I have Gentoo Linux (without systemd) - I know it inside out, and it serves my needs perfectly. I also have a windows install on a second drive, but once my company is closed down (I have retired), I will probably dual boot FreeBSD instead, and may well end up using it as my main desktop.
Oh, and I should add that I don't recommend anyone to use the Gentoo distribution. In my opinion, it's fantastic, but it is not a launch point into Linux. My stock recommendation is usually Linux Mint, but it depends on who's asking!
 
drhowarddrfine said:
I read somewhere that you need to be a serious computer enthusiast to run FreeBSD so I don't think it would be right for the OP.
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Fully agree! The average computer user, which seem to be most of the people outside my tech bubble, just want to use the device and not tinker around. No average user is interested in setting up xorg to have his gui, no average user does care about security nor privacy, no average user cares about the idea of open source software.
 
rootbert said:
Fully agree! The average computer user, which seem to be most of the people outside my tech bubble, just want to use the device and not tinker around. No average user is interested in setting up xorg to have his gui, no average user does care about security nor privacy, no average user cares about the idea of open source software.
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The lack of awareness is frustrating. I mean, looking at the computing specs of my previous Samsung phone, this is more computer than the last Pentium. People have no idea what it could be because everything is polluted with commercial platforms that try to eliminate any competition and be the only option.
Fact: Android and iOS apps are not computer programs but plugins for an already, forever running program that you can't close, called UI.
 
MG said:
looking at the computing specs of my previous Samsung phone, this is more computer than the last Pentium.
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My Samsung S20 broke a couple of weeks ago. Insurance replaced it with a S22 Ultra. The thing has so many settings, it's like setting up FreeBSD. And don't get me started on how much power it sucks up. It's about twice the battery but dies just as fast. I don't know how an average user does it cause I'm struggling. Of course, an average user might not buy a S22 Ultra.
 
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