Excitement and opportunity for the future of FBSD

FreeBSD would be better being a "base OS" for distros like GhostBSD (adding some more components) and any other styles including small embedded use-cases (remove many excessive component, add missing drivers and modify something).
So to make downstream distros to be efficiently maintained, any changes and additions should better contributed to FreeBSD (regardless base or ports).
I think what Netflix and some others are doing are for this purpose.
Maybe there should be a program with root permmsions that analyzes all available system resources and generates a tree of possible applications of the hardware. A webserver is almost possble on any system of the past 30 years but a home cinema setup isn't... I would try it and maybe contribute to it.
 
to my knowledge there is no direct hierarchy in play - they are independent entities.
Couldn't wait for someone to "well, actually" me, since the "goals" of the core team seem like they are thoughts not available to us... despite some of these goals being often funded by the Foundation if not a specific company. But we could always just... look at the documentation on the site and decide that "any and all comers, and for whatever purpose" doesn't mean excluding people. I don't know how much more explicit "widest possible use and provides the widest possible benefit" has to be?
 
Yeah, it's really a headache.
Using term "distribution" would confuse existing long-standing users that the term "distribution" is considered something like base.txz.

The term "derivative" could confuse persons working on financial area.
I hardly think the word "derivative" would confuse anyone, as it's a fairly well established concept in several languages in this world. You have a main body of work, and a "secondary" body of work that derives from it, and therefore it's its "derivative".

I'm an English/Spanish bilingual physicist, regularly using the word "derivative" in a very different context than this in two different languages, and I still find it trivial to understand the concept of "derivative work". In the world of FreeBSD, so much more appropriate than "distro", for the reasons already highlighted in this thread.
 
FreeBSD would be better being a "base OS" for distros like GhostBSD (adding some more components) and any other styles including small embedded use-cases (remove many excessive component, add missing drivers and modify something).
So to make downstream distros to be efficiently maintained, any changes and additions should better contributed to FreeBSD (regardless base or ports).
I think what Netflix and some others are doing are for this purpose.
It's really impressive how small they keep it. What are we at? 500MB or so for a clean system. ..
What could be added maybe is detecting all the available graphics resolutions and enable direct 2d pixel drawing, so you can show a highres pictire without X and a lot of dependencies.
 
Ok, but novelties that are against the engineeringly sound UNIX principles
(of transparency, auditability, user control, text interfaces, small programs that do one thing well and play nice amongst one another, avoidance of overengineering and envelop-all interfaces, avoidance of deceptive interfaces that dont reflect well the underlying processes etc),
are in fact not progress but corruption. I dont follow the changes closely, i wrote this as a general principle, but knowing the attempts to undermine other FOSS systems by the evil of our days, its logical that they will hit the *BSDs doors too someday, if not already. The powers that be want everyone with a closed system they dont have authority and control over. Its about the bigger picture. Thanks for reading.
 
I've said it before and will say again. You need to have a known brand in order to be recognizable and grow your audience. Linux itself is a well enough known brand but we all know it is not actually an OS. Only Ubuntu comes close to being a known brand and maybe Mint is a second but anything else is not enough outside specialized communities because it's so fragmented and divided. FreeBSD should take the opportunity of being the one true complete universal operating system to make its brand more known and recognizable everywhere. It will take time but I believe if enough new desktop users are joined (by merging GhostBSD into an edition under the FreeBSD brand and keeping its distinct/unique nature from Linux) then we might really see a day when Beastie is as recognizable as Tux to the public. And from there on in the long-term future I dream of it as being the biggest free alternative to Windows and Mac.
 
You need to have a known brand in order to be recognizable and grow your audience.
You are right about techniques how to gain popularity, how to grow customers.
And we don't need to argue about that more users are better.
No question.
But just growing - raise the number of users, only - alone will not do good.
Especially not, if the growth is too fast.
You need to grow reasonably. There are many things that need to also grow, and many more others that need to be adapted, and even changed, too

Many people miss the point there is a crucial difference between quality ("gain more users is good") and quantity: 5,000 new users per year were good, 5,000,000 within a year were fatal.
Old engineering expertise:
You cannot simply enlarge something by just scale it up.

Simple example from history:
The 19th century (aka "industrial revolution") was the dawn of modern engineering: Mass production of steel was needed for steam engines, railroads, steamships, etc. which were needed for the mass production of steel. All together it was the foundation of industry, economy, and technology still is based on until today. In these days of rapid growing of railroads, and mass production of steam engines the mechanical engineers had to learn that the hard way. There have been many terrible accidents: terrible train crashes, exploding steam engines et al.
As it turned out:
Using the double size of steel does not provide the double resistance. You cannot simply build a wagon with twice the load capacity by just doubling the axle's diameters. The function of resistance per mm steel ain't linear, but is convergent to a maximum.
Same experience with armor. Until app. WWII more armor was simply done by just using thicker steel plates.
But besides three times thicker steel plates provide less than three times armor, you get additional problems like heavier vehicles, and having no solution when new armor penetrating technologies occur.
Finding:
You cannot simply enlarge something by just scale it up.

All parameters a system consists of interrelate in a complex way. Having a working system created means one solution was found in which all parameters - and their correlations - are in a working balance.
Looking at such a system with an unexpertised eye may bring the idea of simply scaling it up would get the same system, but bigger. Wrong. Because not only the size of the parameters change, so do their intercorrelations, which are often not obvious at the first glance. You also get other, and new parameters get into charge when you change the scale.

Example FreeBSD:
The vast majority of computer users use either Microsoft Windows, or Apple Mac OS, while from those who don't (which are already minority) most use Linux, and from those most use Ubuntu, Mint, OpenSUSE, or something likewise. So anyway some turnkey OS.
Let's pretend Microsoft pisses off "just" 25% of all Windows users so they suddenly turn their back on it - too unreliably working machines, too many crashes, too much loss of time due too frequent updates, too much distraction by up-popping BS, too high license fees, too few trust in privacy,... whatever (what they can best 😁.)

According to AI there are ~1G W10 and ~1G W11 users. That were ~500M users suddenly looking for an alternative.
Almost all of them never seen anything unlixlike before, nor are willing to learn about computers, because they are used to get an OS served on a silver platter, turn key, with the promise: "Don't you bother about the computer. Just use your applications. The system cares about the whole rest automatically." They are convinced not only everything with the computer can be done with the mouse, but any kind of TUI already is freaky hacker stuff to them they don't want to learn, not even remotely. Most of those are already completely overchallenged with terms like "file", "memory", "storage drive", "save file", "copy" - not to mention 'hardcore hacker tricks' like setting up an internet connection, or even install a system. Plus, what they see at the first glimpse: It all looks completely different as they are used to, and not so nice colorful flashy neither...

Now imagine just 1% of those decide for FreeBSD. That were 5 million people enter this world within a few months.
Do you believe that's good?
And by all I elaborated above I remind you: This will not be done, by those all just simply download the installation image, read the handbook, install, use, and then contribute to FreeBSD. Already many in computers actually interested, even experienced nerds don't do it that way.

To master such there are exactly two ways:
You either adapt the system to the users. Or you adapt the users to the system.

1. Either FreeBSD needs to be changed to become a foolproof turnkey OS, all automatically installing and configuring including one prechosen GUI with one preconfigured DE and a pre-picked comprehensive selection of software packages.
This would be the end of FreeBSD. Contradicting it's original core idea, because this would make FreeBSD just another turn key OS, which are suitable only for single user desktop machines. While there already are more than enough choices to pick from. And those are already experienced, established, and capable to deal with large amount of users, and serving their needs: Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Mint, Fedora, DragonFly, GhostBSD,... don't nail me on this. I don't know them, nor which are up to date, or which are dead. But there several to pick from. You know.
I see no sense in why to take the effort to kill the core idea of FreeBSD, why to kill FreeBSD, just to turn it into another turn key OS, to add it to the pool of already enough existing choices, which are already way more established as FreeBSD could catch up in ten years.

Explain to somebody, who never ate something else than fast food bought at chain restaurants, never used a stove before not only now has to cook for her-/himself but above all also eat otherwise: potatoes instead fries, apples instead pudding, wholemeal bread, salad, vegetables, fruits, less cheap meat, less meat at all, less sugar, less fat, less salt, less flavor potentiators, more natural flavors, less deep fryed, more steamed, more raw...
Now imagine to try this a million times at the same time.
Those who cook for themselves, know it not only cost less, but can be fun, and eating that way is not only healthier, but actually enriches life. And of course it was better, when more people would take that road. Not for themselves, only.
But try to convince just a single fast food junky. 😁

Only fewest people change by reason. Most will not change, unless they must. And even when they have to, the new has to be as close to what they are used to as possible. And even so there are simply many - not a few - who simply refuse any changes at all, whatever the cost.
Which brings us to the second of those two possible ways:

2. Change the people. This is possible. Within limits with conditions. But above all it's a long and strenous process. Needs time; not years, decades. Needs patience.
BSD, and Linux people already going this way, paving it, proving day by day alternatives are not only possible but even better, even if not for everybody, but for many, and day by day a few more come to the good side of power.

This cannot be achieved by simply gaining more popularity, by having a good logo, good advertisment, good marketing strategies etc. alone.
It needs more.
Among other things: time, patience, foresight (not to be confused with vision), and reason.
🥸😎:beer:
 
So, according to its 2025 budget, the FreeBSD Foundation spent almost 2 million dollars ($1,912,369.00) in Software Development Personnel/Contractor Expenses.
  1. I hope I'm understanding the budget correctly.
  2. I guess this money has been used for paying people to develop FreeBSD.
  3. How does this coexist with so many FreeBSD developers being 100% volunteers?
Of course, if a programmer in the US makes $200,000/year (source), 2 million dollars pay only 10 programmers.

As a curiosity, in India, 2 million dollars pay 64 programmers (source).

Edit: If someone's point is that a programmer in the US earns less than $200,000/year, that's not the point. If they earn $100,000/year, or $80,000/year, I don't see any difference in the big picture.
 
I guess this money has been used for paying people to develop FreeBSD.
First: Thanks for the number (if you don't got it unchecked by asking some bot. 😜)
Looking at the foundation - their (core?) team is presented online, so you count the heads. Assuming they do not work for free but being employed (fulltime?), and see they also travel to ([potential]key) customers, cons, etc., plus rooms for HQ rent etc. - you can roughly estimate that round about a M is spent on this.

The question I am dying to know is:
What operating system do they primarily run on the foundation's office desktop machines? 😁
 
First: Thanks for the number (if you don't got it unchecked by asking some bot.
You are welcome. I didn't ask any bot. You just have to go to the Foundation's webpage and click-click a little bit.
a M is spent on this.
I don't understand why it says 2M then. 2M is just for "software development personnel/contractor," according to the budget. Why do we have to subtract 1M to that? 2M is not the whole budget, the whole budget is 3,2M.
 
You are welcome. I didn't ask any bot. You just have to go to the Foundation's webpage and click-click a little bit.

I don't understand why it says 2M then. 2M is just for "software development personnel/contractor," according to the budget. Why do we have to subtract 1M to that? 2M is not the whole budget, the whole budget is 3,2M.
Maybe counting "Sponsored by: The FreeBSD Foundation" in commit messages could help estimating? This should include not only src, but also ports and doc repos.
 
You need to have a known brand in order to be recognizable and grow your audience.
Why is is beneficial for FreeBSD to get more users? How does that help make it a better operating system? How does having more users running FreeBSD increase the amount of contributions, either in the form of volunteer software engineers submitting code, or in the form of donors giving money to the foundation?

I actually think that increasing the number of desktop users is a net negative, as we'll have more questions from newbies on this forum (which is a large part of the support system for FreeBSD, together with Reddit and Discord), and more newbies filing repetitive or pointless PRs.

Only Ubuntu comes close to being a known brand and maybe Mint is a second but anything else is not enough outside specialized communities because it's so fragmented and divided.
I would disagree. In the universe of Linux distribution brand names, the most important ones are the those that pay for support, and thereby fund the big Linux distribution companies, who are in turn significantly funding Linux development. And there the two large names are RedHat and SUSE. Among free distributions, Ubuntu indeed does have the highest market share, followed by Debian.

So, according to its 2025 budget, the FreeBSD Foundation spent almost 2 million dollars ($1,912,369.00) in Software Development Personnel/Contractor Expenses.
There is an interesting mismatch between the budget the foundation posts online (which you quote up there), and the actual financial information (the foundation also posts its profit&loss for the first 9 months of 2025, and its F990 tax form is publicly visible). The latter includes $600K of salaries for 3/4 of a year (scales to $800K for the whole year), the bulk of which is for non-development activities. The breakdown of salaries for the highest paid people can be found in the F990.

Of the roughly $2M in development expenses, a lot is sort of a "passthrough": A set of donors give large amounts of money to the foundation for specific projects (in the current case, donor Quantum Research donated explicitly for laptop, WiFi and virtualization improvements), and the foundation then spends that on employees and contractors to implement those projects. That seems sort of inefficient, until you think about the fact that the foundation is a 501(c)(3), meaning donations allow development projects to be done tax free.

Of course, if a programmer in the US makes $200,000/year (source), 2 million dollars pay only 10 programmers.
The actual cost of a software engineer in the US was commonly estimated to be $250K per year, about 6 to 8 years ago. It has since increased to about $300K, or perhaps more in the last year or two since I stopped tracking it. That roughly agrees with your number of about $190K salary paid, if one includes various overheads, such as benefits, employment taxes, required infrastructure (laptops, servers, networking), office space, and management overhead. Quite a few Silicon Valley companies actually use the "SWE" as a unit of measuring money (one SWE = the cost of a software engineer for one year), and it is generally held to be $250K to $300K.
 
Why is is beneficial for FreeBSD to get more users? How does that help make it a better operating system? How does having more users running FreeBSD increase the amount of contributions, either in the form of volunteer software engineers submitting code, or in the form of donors giving money to the foundation?

I actually think that increasing the number of desktop users is a net negative, as we'll have more questions from newbies on this forum (which is a large part of the support system for FreeBSD, together with Reddit and Discord), and more newbies filing repetitive or pointless PRs.
I never think that I'm the only one of my kind, and since I've joined this forum I have not asked a single question and, instead, have helped answer a few. And I'm a new desktop user. There must be more like me. (I also specialize in populating the off-topic section with different eccentricities, but that's another topic.)

New FreeBSD desktop users might be more knowledgeable than the average newbie. Maybe we are a force, not a hindrance.
 
...Windows (10 / 11) has turned into a lot of things "I did not ask for": Co-Pilot AI, Recall (who even asked for that?), One Drive, Cloud, Seriously? You are displaying an Advertisement to me on my Windows O/S that asks my if "I want to install Minecraft on to my Windows?" What year is this?
Amen to that. There are several reasons why I am switching to FreeBSD, but one of the important ones is that it is not constantly trying to cross-sell me new stuff. (Another is that it doesn't act like a wannabe friend: "Just a moment...we are setting up your new machine..." Minor, but annoying.)
 
I never think that I'm the only one of my kind, and since I've joined this forum I have not asked a single question and, instead, have helped answer a few. And I'm a new desktop user. There must be more like me. (I also specialize in populating the off-topic section with different eccentricities, but that's another topic.)

New FreeBSD desktop users might be more knowledgeable than the average newbie. Maybe we are a force, not a hindrance.
Thank you for doing that! You are part of the solution, not part of the problem. Sadly, that doesn't apply to everyone.
 
Why is is beneficial for FreeBSD to get more users? How does that help make it a better operating system? How does having more users running FreeBSD increase the amount of contributions, either in the form of volunteer software engineers submitting code, or in the form of donors giving money to the foundation?

I actually think that increasing the number of desktop users is a net negative, as we'll have more questions from newbies on this forum (which is a large part of the support system for FreeBSD, together with Reddit and Discord), and more newbies filing repetitive or pointless PRs.
I would have to disagree with you here. If new users are not attracted, eventually FreeBSD will die. Similarly providing an easier path, including a decent desktop env., to new users does not take away anything from FreeBSD's current use.

For new users ideally there should be a separate subforum. It is better to educate them and eventually they too will start helping out with newbies.
 
Back
Top