Proton Mail started relocation out of Switzerland due to changes in Swiss legislation

[POSIX.1]

Proton Mail considered moving out of Switzerland since months, now they started moving.
Proton CEO Andy Yen: "We have started to copy our entire infrastructure. Our data is now stored on servers in Switzerland, Germany, and Norway. If necessary, we can shut down the systems in Switzerland within a short period of time. I always hoped that we would never have to take such steps. But the environment in Switzerland is currently too uncertain for us. We had no choice but to plan our departure." (translated)

Aus Angst vor zu viel Überwachung: Proton-CEO Andy Yen erklärt den Rückzug aus der Schweiz

Das Schweizer Tech-Unternehmen Proton hat angefangen, seine Server aus der Schweiz abzuziehen. Im Interview verteidigt der CEO seinen Kurs und greift den Bundesrat scharf an.

www.nzz.ch

 

[hruodr]

The whole world is getting 'authoritarian'. Soon there will be no place to flee.

 

[loveydovey]

Get the heck out. Wasn't the whole point of Proton that they are based in Switzerland? Kind of like as secure and impartial as Swiss banks?

 

[eternal_noob]

there will be no place to flee

All of Europe is f*cked.

 

[balanga]

All of Europe is f*cked.

The UK is not in the EU, thankfully, but is probably more draconian than any member.

 

[wolffnx]

I started using ProtonMail because that,but is like loveydovey says..
I prefer Zoho , proton sometimes becomes too slow in sending and read mails

 

[hruodr]

I started using ProtonMail because that

I resist till now to read email with GUI client or web browser.

For me proton is no alternative for normal mail because no normal smtp / imap.

I suspect the best solution would be that more people use encryption to be more independent of privacy policy of provider.

But till now no success with mass encryption, we need better support in clients.

Own mail server is a problem:

H

Thread 'Google began sending mails from my server to SPAM folder'

Oct 5, 2025

I comply with everything here:

Email sender guidelines - Google Workspace Admin Help

The guidelines in this article can help you successfully send and deliver email to personal Gmail accounts. Starting in 2024, email senders must meet the requirements described here to send email to G

support.google.com

The Server is only experimental, mail relay is filtered with most strict spamhouse db, no signal misuse.

It is frustrating, it seems one is forced to use the service of big mail providers.

• hruodr
• Replies: 26
• Forum: Off-Topic

• 

 

[lost_in_c]

A lot of people are stuck on a strange psychological permaloop. On one hand, they want the government to protect them from several evils, real or imagined. On the other, they consider government to be evil.

I lay this at the feet of the fathers of previous generations completely relegating the education of their children to governments. Theis permaloop was inevitable. I am not optimistic about the outcome.

 

[hruodr]

Did you ever hear about civil liberties? I want that the state respect and protect them.

 

[wolffnx]

I resist till now to read email with GUI client or web browser.

For me proton is no alternative for normal mail because no normal smtp / imap.

I suspect the best solution would be that more people use encryption to be more independent of privacy policy of provider.

But till now no success with mass encryption, we need better support in clients.

Own mail server is a problem:

H

Thread 'Google began sending mails from my server to SPAM folder'

Oct 5, 2025

I comply with everything here:

Email sender guidelines - Google Workspace Admin Help

The guidelines in this article can help you successfully send and deliver email to personal Gmail accounts. Starting in 2024, email senders must meet the requirements described here to send email to G

support.google.com

The Server is only experimental, mail relay is filtered with most strict spamhouse db, no signal misuse.

It is frustrating, it seems one is forced to use the service of big mail providers.

• hruodr
• Replies: 26
• Forum: Off-Topic

• 

Wow, the no smtp and imap is a big No for proton, I'dont know that

And for running your own mailserver, I dont see why not, sure, the google requirements seems strict, but allways have been like that,is normal,
maybe you have to read more..but is not imposible

zoho offer Pgp encription,but is a pay feature

the best is encrypt your mails by hand and send it , but I dont see it, when the receiver is a person who not have idea of how to decrypt it(for examples,clients,etc)

 

[Crivens]

lost_in_c please cut out the political spin. I don't think you know what you are talking about, but I recognize the rethoric.

Please go visit some places around the world, stay for some time, get to know the people and culture. Then take a good hard look at your home place, you might find that enlightening.

And this thread is very close to the edge of the trash can, let's get back on topic.

 

[kpedersen]

Wow, the no smtp and imap is a big No for proton, I'dont know that

Yeah, I see a bunch of "security concious" people using it and just chuckle that they have to use this crappy Javascript-centric web interface on their web browser (completely unsecure things). All the variables are decrypted at this point too so the browser is able to scrape it and send it off to their respective companies.

The solution has always been to self-host and since comms between mail servers could well be unencrypted, you may want to consider doing the encryption at the highest level (email body) and agree on keys before hand.

 

[loveydovey]

Yeah, I see a bunch of "security concious" people using it and just chuckle that they have to use this crappy Javascript-centric web interface on their web browser (completely unsecure things). All the variables are decrypted at this point too so the browser is able to scrape it and send it off to their respective companies.

The solution has always been to self-host and since comms between mail servers could well be unencrypted, you may want to consider doing the encryption at the highest level (email body) and agree on keys before hand.

Might as well implant an encrypted walkie-talkie into your body. Oh, wait, that's how high-tech organized crime began.

 

[6502]

A lot of people are stuck on a strange psychological permaloop. On one hand, they want the government to protect them from several evils, real or imagined. On the other, they consider government to be evil.

Governments are not constant. This year they can do their job, after 5 years the next group can be "evil".

About Proton - it can be in Switzerland but the CEO is not native but Mr. Yen... Who is the real owner is another question.

 

[hruodr]

And this thread is very close to the edge of the trash can, let's get back on topic.

The topic was that protonmail had to flee for protecting the privacy of its customers,
then I added that this solution may not last for much time.

The solution has always been to self-host and since comms between mail servers could well be unencrypted, you may want to consider doing the encryption at the highest level (email body) and agree on keys before hand.

Nice for agreed communication.

But for normal, casual private communication, not shared with anyone except the partners of the communication,
there are two problems:

(1) The one that I have with google (my email lands in spam folder)
(2) Encryption is unfortunately not normal, standard among all users of email, we need better software support.

But I do see the solution on the principle: secure, private communication on insecure, public medium.

 

[scottro]

Mike Lucas does have a book on hosting your own mail server. Introductory chapter here. (Link goes to a kickstarter I think). https://mwl.io/archives/22653

But it's not easy anymore. Whether it's the fault of the spammers or the large companies blocking spam, possibly to the point where the secret plan is to make you use their servers, I have no idea. I have a small server I run only to get mail, most places won't accept mail from it. Living in the US, we have our own privacy fears. Of course, most of my email are things like BestBuy sales and the like.

 

[fmc000]

You are uninformed. And wrong.

And you are continuing feeding the troll. Please stop it, ignore him or ban him but stop wasting threads.

 

[CShell]

the best is encrypt your mails by hand and send it , but I dont see it, when the receiver is a person who not have idea of how to decrypt it(for examples,clients,etc)

Yeah - that's the tricky part . I have been using Proton (mail/VPN) for a while. Indeed the "selling point" for Proton was that they (are/were?) based in Switzerland. I am probably less worried about Proton expanding into Norway, Germany and perhaps other EU countries. Proton's reputation will always be based on "we keep things private" and if that ever falls over then they are going to find themselves swimming uphill.

I was raised to believe you could get a "Swiss Bank Account" and put (whatever?) into the Swiss bank account and everything stays private -- because the Swiss value privacy above all else. Of course -- you first have to believe that was ever true. But yes - it appears there are more "recent cracks" in Swiss policy making for some reason.

 

[mer]

the best is encrypt your mails by hand and send it , but I dont see it, when the receiver is a person who not have idea of how to decrypt it(for examples,clients,etc)

Yep,PGP/GPG has been around for a long time. It's not very difficult to set up a key pair and push the public one out to keyservers. The problem is most people never do the first ones right (they forget to have them expire) and as pointed out if the receiver doesn't understand, all they see is gibberish.

And not all mails need to be encrypted, but alot (most?) should be signed (my opinion) letting receiver at least verify the contents.

Lots of mail clients have hooks to deal with signed messages, the problem becomes with keys: do you configure things to automatically pull down public keys? In theory, it should be ok, but one never knows.

 

[hruodr]

And not all mails need to be encrypted

Yes, not all, for example the local mails of a daemon to the administrator in the system, but better the most.

It is about privacy, and not even the information that I am sending an irrelevant mail to someone is public.

Lots of mail clients have hooks to deal with signed messages, the problem becomes with keys: do you configure things to automatically pull down public keys? In theory, it should be ok, but one never knows.

It must be so simple that the most stupid windows user can deal with it.

 

[SirDice]

Chopped a bunch of irrelevant posts.

 

[Micski]

Yep,PGP/GPG has been around for a long time. It's not very difficult to set up a key pair and push the public one out to keyservers. The problem is most people never do the first ones right (they forget to have them expire) and as pointed out if the receiver doesn't understand, all they see is gibberish.

And not all mails need to be encrypted, but alot (most?) should be signed (my opinion) letting receiver at least verify the contents.

Lots of mail clients have hooks to deal with signed messages, the problem becomes with keys: do you configure things to automatically pull down public keys? In theory, it should be ok, but one never knows.

You might be able to explain this basic shared key encryption concept to co-workers and friends (I was not), but there are a lot more problems, that users are faced with as times goes by. You mention experired keys, which I think, is one of the larger problems for basic users. But there are many others. They want to read an archived message, but can no longer do so. They key got mixed up, are not available on this particular mail client or were not restored from recent data migration. I am afraid, that the whole PGP concept has similar issues as IPv6 does, when it comes to human-friendlyness and user adoptability.

 

[covacat]

if all the mail was encrypted end to end the govts would come with "think of the children" and will mandate a backdoor, the same as they do with chat now

 

[fmc000]

if all the mail was encrypted end to end the govts would come with "think of the children" and will mandate a backdoor, the same as they do with chat now

Whatsapp is already encrypted end to end, with no backdoors. Unless you know something that no one else does.

 

[LibreQuest]

You could pen your letters on papyrus using the Caesar Cipher and send them in the post. Alternatively, you could utilize the time tested courier pigeon to carry said encrypted notes to and fro.