Share commercial Unixperiences

In the past I've used a bunch of Sun systems, both Solaris and SunOS. Both worked just fine. Old SPARC systems were some of the best engineered at that time (probably even today). I had minimal use of DEC Ultrix and the odd SGI system.
At the time the GUI on all was CDE so it was easy to move from one to the other. At one point I built Windowmaker from source and ran it on the SPARCs :) It was the early days of grabbing gcc et al over FTP.
The most you had to worry about was is this a SysV system or rc.init.
VxWorks and BSD4.3 in the embedded space also saw a lot of use. I still have a box of BSD4.3 from WndRiver on the shelf.
From a simple user POV, they all worked, some maybe felt faster, others better graphics, but they all just worked.

"Unix Internals, The New Frontiers" by Ursh Vahalia is a good reference for comparing how they did things under the hood. Kernel stuff like processes/thread, memory management, scheduling, IPC. All the true geek stuff. Solaris was a major player in the realtime/fully interruptible kernel space.

Not sure if that's what your looking for, but that's my experience
 
Oh well, in my first job I worked as a Unix system administrator on AT&T System V Rel. 4 386 machines. This was between 1997 to late 1999. Not a great experience I would say.

Then I worked with SunOS/Solaris for many years, more than two decades actually, all releases from 2.5.1 to 11.4 and I have only nice things to say about it, rock solid, almost bullet proof and capable of running any kind of workloads from web servers, application servers, firewalls, big databases and so on.

For a period of time I even worked as a Sun Microsystems consultant for some big customers.

Actually I now have Freebsd on my personal laptops because of ZFS, it's a must for me.

Too bad that Oracle decided to not invest resources in this OS, with my current employer we were basically forced to switch to Linux because of that.

I also worked on Digital Unix / Compaq Tru64 on Alpha servers; the hardware was absolutely excellent but the OS was somewhat inferior to Solaris.

Other than that I consulted for a few months on AIX and HPUX but in this case I cannot honestly say anything relevant, too short period of time to form a sound judgement IMHO.
 
In the past I've used a bunch of Sun systems, both Solaris and SunOS. Both worked just fine. Old SPARC systems were some of the best engineered at that time (probably even today). I had minimal use of DEC Ultrix and the odd SGI system.
At the time the GUI on all was CDE so it was easy to move from one to the other. At one point I built Windowmaker from source and ran it on the SPARCs :) It was the early days of grabbing gcc et al over FTP.
The most you had to worry about was is this a SysV system or rc.init.
VxWorks and BSD4.3 in the embedded space also saw a lot of use. I still have a box of BSD4.3 from WndRiver on the shelf.
From a simple user POV, they all worked, some maybe felt faster, others better graphics, but they all just worked.

"Unix Internals, The New Frontiers" by Ursh Vahalia is a good reference for comparing how they did things under the hood. Kernel stuff like processes/thread, memory management, scheduling, IPC. All the true geek stuff. Solaris was a major player in the realtime/fully interruptible kernel space.

Not sure if that's what your looking for, but that's my experience
At the last VCF, there was someone with a bunch of working Sun2 and Sun3 workstations! It was pretty fun to use an old Sun. I wish Oracle never bought Sun. They somehow manage to be the best at ruining things, while contributing nothing positive to anything else. At least they haven't relicensed MySQL under the SSPL (yet).
 
At the last VCF, there was someone with a bunch of working Sun2 and Sun3 workstations! It was pretty fun to use an old Sun. I wish Oracle never bought Sun. They somehow manage to be the best at ruining things, while contributing nothing positive to anything else. At least they haven't relicensed MySQL under the SSPL (yet).
I really like the old Sun hardware. Just like original Apple Macs. Designed not slapped together like todays Dells. Look at the CPU specs of those old systems compared to latest Intel Core 5/AMD Ryzen and think "how did they do so much with so little".

Growing up dad worked at Bell Labs, so after hex coded microprocessors, my first "computers" were real Unix over a 300baud modem on a TI thermal paper tty.
 
I had a fleet of SunOS 4 ("Solaris 1"), Irix and a NeXTStation before I switched to PCs with NetBSD. The Irix was buggy, although I don't remember whether I had the SYSVR4 derived version. For SunOS I can say with certainty that the SYSVR4 derived version (5.0 aka "Solaris 2") was a disaster.

That kind of forcing unwanted changes on me with no escape drove me into the open source camp very deeply very quickly.

The NeXT was good, but not further developed.
 
I am curious to hear what people feel about the commercial Unices, and I would be interested if anyone on these forums ever has to deal with them on a regular basis.

Solaris is the only one that keeps up with the world and Oracle was the worst thing that could happen to Solaris ... Solaris has really nice features like Zones and Kernel Zones for live migration, Crossbow, ZFS, LDOM, pkg(8), COMSTAR, really nice features. It is really underrated enterprice UNIX.

The most heritage park/museum style is HP-UX with last release from 2007. CLI commands offer output in bytes or kilobytes - nothing more - the df(1) command displays bytes and bdf(1) displays in kilobytes. Username and hostname must fit in 8 characters ... things like that. Installing/updating software and HP-UX system requires arcane knowledge and is PITA more or less.

IBM AIX is somewhere between Solaris and HP-UX - CLI commands often offer '-g' option for Gigabytes listing - the defaults are really useless - You need to tune it to every case each time - PowerVM and PowerHA are not bad but ironically - less flexible then HP Containers and HP Virtual Machines and HP ServiceGuard cluster. The HMC for these POWER systems for IBM POWER is always living in its own world ... and its Linux based :) There is even port of rpm(8) packages for AIX and some people even ported yum(8) for IBM AIX - still just a prosthetic a nothing native - as native software and system updates installation on IBM AIX is also in the dark ages of UNIX systems.

FreeBSD and Linux are little more modern then Solaris ... but when compared to AIX or HP-UX its decades ...
 
Unix was the "gold standard" back in the day.

We were living in a DOS/PC-DOS/Amiga/Apple ][/Classic Mac/Unix(es)/VAX-VMS/IBM Mainframe/etc world before Windows 3.1 was released.

Booting your x86 PC into MS/DOS was pretty much like having a Unix shell prompt.. but much worse :-).

Programmers learned to program "C" on Unix (aka AT&T Unix, BSD Unix, Irix, SGI, Ultrix, etc) because you could literally destroy your DOS/Windows PC if you programmed the wrong C or Assembly instruction and that instruction hit the wrong part of the DOS/Windows/PC architecture while learning to code (think fried hard disk controller, graphic card, CPU, uart, power supply, etc). On the other hand Unix machines would nicely 'core' dump your running program when your program went out of it's process space or otherwise did bad things. You could then use a debugger to inspect the 'core' dump to see what mistake you made, fix it, compile it again and continue on, learn from it. I still think anyone learning C/C++/Assembly/etc should learn to program on a Unix machine because it's safer. They have admitably more "fool proofed" Windows over the years so it doesn't so easily break.

There were few commercial Unix products for "home computer users" - but a few were out there. NeXT comes to mind, and I always wanted to own a NeXT cube, but the price was expen$ive back in the day :-). My memory of it was that the NeXT cube itself was running something like $8,000 to $10,000 USD -- and I think it was like $2,000 USD just to buy the "printer"! Maybe that is "cheap" in 2025 money? :cool:
 
My only experience with commercial Unix was in early ‘90s but not as professional use, it was SunOS (based on 4.3BSD with System V IPC, before SVR4) on some uni in Canada where I obtained acc (don’t ask how 😉) to learn basics about Unix. Also I had (at that time still commercial) Minix on Atari ST. Back then I was spending most of my learning time on DEC VMS. Only since 2001 I started with Linux, then from ’06 FreeBSD and since totally lost interest in any commercial Unix variant, including OS X.
 
There were few commercial Unix products for "home computer users" - but a few were out there. NeXT comes to mind, and I always wanted to own a NeXT cube, but the price was expen$ive back in the day :-). My memory of it was that the NeXT cube itself was running something like $8,000 to $10,000 USD -- and I think it was like $2,000 USD just to buy the "printer"! Maybe that is "cheap" in 2025 money? :cool:
AFAIR, Coherent Unix was quite popular on PCs in mid/late '80s.
 
Took me some time ... finally found this image on my disk that really well represents the differences.

unix-comparison-aix-bsd-hpux-solaris-cars.jpg
 
Several years ago, I worked at a commercial printing company that ran their prepress production and plate outputting hardware on Sun Solaris systems. There was also a workstation that ran SGI Irix.

The Sun servers were, as you might expect, absolute workhorses with uptime measured in years. The only time they went down when I was there was to physically move them to a different location in the plant.

Then the devil came a callin', and management saw fit to replace the Sun servers with a very proprietary workflow management system based on Windows NT. After that, I swear we had to reboot those damn things daily. It was less than amusing, but we would laugh and shake our heads about it anyway. I tried to purchase the Sun equipment, but they wouldn't have it. I believe the SGI workstation was also retired shortly thereafter, as well.
 
Several years ago, I worked at a commercial printing company that ran their prepress production and plate outputting hardware on Sun Solaris systems. There was also a workstation that ran SGI Irix.

The Sun servers were, as you might expect, absolute workhorses with uptime measured in years. The only time they went down when I was there was to physically move them to a different location in the plant.

Then the devil came a callin', and management saw fit to replace the Sun servers with a very proprietary workflow management system based on Windows NT. After that, I swear we had to reboot those damn things daily. It was less than amusing, but we would laugh and shake our heads about it anyway. I tried to purchase the Sun equipment, but they wouldn't have it. I believe the SGI workstation was also retired shortly thereafter, as well.
Please do tell us more 🙏 Which software run on Sun servers and SGI WS? Did SGI maybe run Linotype-Hell DaVinci? AFAIR SGI was huge improvement and much smaller and cheaper than previously used Linotype-Hell LinoServer beasts (their size was comparable with AS/400 B20-B40 models)

I only once had hands-on experience with Sun serving printer, but that was in the bank, and printer was huge line printer with output speed ~1K LPM. That was back in Botswana; they had a problem so they called company I was working for – local Xerox rep. Problem they had was that after every printed page printer was pushing another empty one.

Colleague and I spent few hours playing with the Sun, not because problem was hard to solve (it was trivial - one extra ^L, \o14, \f – FormFeed – in their script), but because we wanted to charge our company few extra hours of filed work, and only God knows how much they charged the bank.

At the end, everyone was happy. 😁
 
In the late 80s, I used Ultrix, on VAXes and DECstations (MIPS CPUs). Worked excellently. Never had to deal with support, nor did I administer the system.

In the 90s, I had a NeXT on my desk, and roughly half my department used NeXT machines (we had about 30 in the department). This was a bizarre experience. On one hand, they were delightful to use, and just worked, and were intuitive. It is very clear where today's MacOS gets is "user-friendly" and "must be perfect" mindset from. The GUI was fabulous, and most of the time the user interface was great. But, there were two problems. First, the development environment was busted beyond belief. If you wanted to code on it, Objective C worked great; all other languages (Fortran, C, Perl, REXX, C++) had broken libraries, ancient compiler versions, bugs up the wazoo. Because of that, I used my NeXT in a nutshell as a multi-window terminal emulator, and did my real work on big AIX machines in the computer center, on VAXes running VMS, and on mainframes running VM. Unfortunately, for GUI work I had to use the NeXT natively. And this is the point where I went from frustrated to angry: I had to use an Xwindows based data analysis application, and discovered so many bugs in the NeXT implementation of X that the apps were fundamentally unusable. For example: If you draw a line, it is drawn on the correct pixels on the screen; if you draw a point (single pixel), it is drawn 8 pixels to the left where it belongs. When you are trying to match measured data points on a graph to an interpolation line, and all the data points are 8 pixels to the left, this gets to be insane. Support from NeXT was non-existing, no answers were ever forthcoming, even though our organization was the largest NeXT customer in the world. Interesting tidbit: The first HTTP web server outside of CERN, the first one in the US, and the second web server in the world, ran on a NeXT cube, in an office about 50 feet down the hallway from me. The final straw was the following: I was using a complex and expensive simulation and programming package (ModSim from CACI, a Modula-3 compiler with built-in simulation framework) on my NeXT; the license for that cost several $10K. At some point, ModSim sales called me, asking to please stop using the license, since I was the last customer in the world still using ModSim on a NeXT; the had just talked the next-to-last customer out of using a NeXT (the next-to-last customer was the CIA, ModSim was mostly sold into federal government agencies). I used that an an excuse to throw the next in the trash, and I replaced it with ... drum roll ... a non-GUI machine: I connected a multi-port VT200 terminal to my office mate's RS6000. Literally, compared to a NeXT on my desk, not having a GUI was an advantage. CACI was kind enough to transfer my ModSim license to an RS-6000 server.

At the same time, I started using AIX as a user; it was annoying, painful, and IBM is a very obnoxious company (more on that below). Having to use SMIT to administer things was awful. But, after a while you figure out that AIX is actually great: Everything just bloody works, and once you get over the allergic reaction to things having been IBMized, and gritting your teeth about the fact that SMIT has to use IBM language to describe common things, the machines are actually exceedingly productive. I started administering several AIX machines, and working with IBM support was an absolute pleasure: something goes wrong, you call 1-800-IBM-SERV, enter your ID number, and about an hour later you have a competent engineer on the phone who helps you solve your problem. The best part about AIX was: It ran on really fast hardware; the RS-6000 CPUs were among the fasted number crunchers we had available. We actually had a joke about it: When IBM looked for a successor the PC (which stands for piece of crap), they built the PS2, which means "piece of shit too". But then they improved it, first to the RT, and then to the RS-6000, which means "rapid shit". Sure, AIX was a weird critter, but it ran like a bat out of hell, it was really reliable, and things just bloody worked.

After that experience, I spent 4 years mostly using Windows machines professionally, but we also have a few SVR4 machines running on i386 hardware (and when I say 386, I do mean Intel 386, 486 and Pentium). I don't even remember which vendor we got our SVR4 from, but it was boring. Just Unix, without a GUI. Worked perfectly.

I then spent two years employed by HP, with a HP-UX machine on my desk, and a Windows laptop. The HP-UX machine was also completely boring and perfect; I used Motif under X for a desktop (mail and web browser), and otherwise mostly shell work. Lots of development in languages such as C++, Tcl and others. Given that I was inside HP (matter-of-fact, in HP's building 1, the same building where Mr. Hewlett's and Mr. Packard's offices were), there as no system administration to be done, we had a competent set of professional admins. HP's compiler was extremely good; some colleagues tried to use gcc, and were always amazed at what a complete piece of crap gcc was.

I then went and worked for IBM for nearly two decades. During that time I used AIX, but my personal desktop and laptop machines were either Linux, and then Windows after I got tired of how flaky Linux was. Eventually, I replaced my desktop/laptop with MacOS. For servers, AIX was again boring and perfect. Installing and administering AIX using SMIT required intestinal fortitude (because everything was so weird), but once you get over that, it just works, exceedingly well. Again, IBM's compilers (XLC and XLF) were leagues better than anything available on Linux, or gcc on AIX. It's hard to comment on the quality of support, because on one hand IBM's internal systems didn't get any formal support (we weren't allowed to call 1-800-IBM-SERV, and PhD researchers had to be their own sys admins), but on the other hand, we knew the phone numbers for developers, so if we needed help, we just talked to engineering directly.

One of my colleagues had to get a mainframe running, and our group was too small to buy the hardware (even within IBM, a million-dollar mainframe is not easily available). So they installed the Hercules emulator on an AIX machine, and then booted that into both VM and zOS. Yes, AIX was good enough, you could use it to host a mainframe OS, and get productive work done. He was amazed when he had to perform zOS system administration by writing JCL decks (80-column card images with // JOB in front!), but it all worked.

I left IBM in 2017, and since then I have not logged into anything other than MacOS, Windows, Linux and FreeBSD.

I had colleagues that used Sun machines, with both Solaris and SunOS. They didn't like it. My wife used SGIs with Irix and VAXes with VMS, and it was easy and productive, but she's not a computer person (she just owned and administered her own machines, sometimes a half dozen of them).

So here is my summary of using commercial Unixes:
  • Ultrix, AIX and HP-UX were all great, productive, superb support, fast, efficient. That was from roughly 1988 to about 2015. Irix I only know about second hand, and it was similarly good.
  • SVR4 on Intel hardware in the 1990s just worked, and was boring.
  • NeXT's version of Unix was a disaster, more bugs than a mangy dog. Yet it was genius, with the first really good GUI, sort of the bridge between Xerox' Alto and today's Mac.
  • VMS was and remains the best commercial operating system ever. Sadly, it is today a heritage niche.
  • Until about 2002 or 2005, Linux was a toy, which hobbyists were able to use for a single desktop/GUI system, or for one-off servers. If you had the $$$ to get a commercial Unix license, it was massively better than Linux. At some point, Linux grew up to become a really good server OS, and it remained free (or very cheap, if you buy support from RH or SUSE), which destroyed the commercial Unix market.
  • For my personal servers, I have very intentionally chosen to use OpenBSD (since ~2002 until about 2011 or 2014) and FreeBSD since. Because it is just a more pleasant experience than Linux, the only other realistic alternative.
 
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Then the devil came a callin', and management saw fit to replace the Sun servers with a very proprietary workflow management system based on Windows NT. After that, I swear we had to reboot those damn things daily.
Just remembered something, did any of NT’s in your company had Apple YellowBox running? YellowBox was superset of NeXT’s OpenStep (which had Adobe's Display PostScript), combined with other Apple software tech and Java.

I had it at $DAYJOB running on PC with NT 4, serving as a base for Heidelberg Signa Station imposition. AFAIR, it was rock stable in that role.
 
I spent a very short time with IRIX at a university. When the last O2 workstation was decommissioned I saved it from the dumpster, named it Erwin, and used it as an MP3/webradio player in my office that I could control from my phone. Eventually I donated Erwin to a museum when the electronics became too flaky for me to maintain, and now I'm locked in an eternal battle of wills with the Sonos in the corner of my home office.
 
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