I genuinely think freebsd would be more popular with a purely bsd eye-candy desktop environment

Seriously, what's stopping people from doing so?
I bet the community could do something far more awesome than gnome or kde.
IMG-20220130-WA0000.jpg
 
… freebsd would be more popular with a purely bsd eye-candy desktop environment

True: desktop environments increase popularity.

Also true: it's not a good idea for FreeBSD to include any DE.

Instead, if you like:

the FreeBSD Project needs better onboarding for the gamut of people who require a desktop environment

… the community could do something far more awesome than gnome or kde.

Opinions of what's awesome vary, wildly, which is a good thing.

For me, GNOME (pictured) is awful, but I understand that other people might be passionate about its virtues.

Seriously, what's stopping people from doing so? …

If you mean, rationales for not including a desktop environment: one must be graphics hardware.

I shouldn't jump to conclusions, but <https://bsd-hardware.info/?probe=ef66d7a110#pci:8086-27a6-103c-308f> with one of your two graphics cards properly driven, it's possible that you never felt the pain that can result from a desktop environment without graphics ;-)
 
Not a typo, a poop emoji would be awesome as a window close button. "I'm flushing this window".

Perhaps "recently minted" would be better?
 
something far more awesome than gnome or kde
x11-wm/awesome ?

Seriously, what's stopping people from doing so?
Waste of time when you already have a broad choice of DEs, WMs and other desktop software that work fine on FreeBSD. x11/lumina was started with FreeBSD as the main target (it was later ported to Linux) but I wouldn't call it a success. Join development of your favourite one and make it more awesome!
 
Join development of your favourite one and make it more awesome!
Or even build your own! Here's TinyWM, a window manager in less than 50 lines of code! Fork it and make it awesome!

C:
/* TinyWM is written by Nick Welch <nick@incise.org> in 2005 & 2011.
 *
 * This software is in the public domain
 * and is provided AS IS, with NO WARRANTY. */

#include <X11/Xlib.h>

#define MAX(a, b) ((a) > (b) ? (a) : (b))

int main(void)
{
    Display * dpy;
    XWindowAttributes attr;
    XButtonEvent start;
    XEvent ev;

    if(!(dpy = XOpenDisplay(0x0))) return 1;

    XGrabKey(dpy, XKeysymToKeycode(dpy, XStringToKeysym("F1")), Mod1Mask,
            DefaultRootWindow(dpy), True, GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync);
    XGrabButton(dpy, 1, Mod1Mask, DefaultRootWindow(dpy), True,
            ButtonPressMask|ButtonReleaseMask|PointerMotionMask, GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync, None, None);
    XGrabButton(dpy, 3, Mod1Mask, DefaultRootWindow(dpy), True,
            ButtonPressMask|ButtonReleaseMask|PointerMotionMask, GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync, None, None);

    start.subwindow = None;
    for(;;)
    {
        XNextEvent(dpy, &ev);
        if(ev.type == KeyPress && ev.xkey.subwindow != None)
            XRaiseWindow(dpy, ev.xkey.subwindow);
        else if(ev.type == ButtonPress && ev.xbutton.subwindow != None)
        {
            XGetWindowAttributes(dpy, ev.xbutton.subwindow, &attr);
            start = ev.xbutton;
        }
        else if(ev.type == MotionNotify && start.subwindow != None)
        {
            int xdiff = ev.xbutton.x_root - start.x_root;
            int ydiff = ev.xbutton.y_root - start.y_root;
            XMoveResizeWindow(dpy, start.subwindow,
                attr.x + (start.button==1 ? xdiff : 0),
                attr.y + (start.button==1 ? ydiff : 0),
                MAX(1, attr.width + (start.button==3 ? xdiff : 0)),
                MAX(1, attr.height + (start.button==3 ? ydiff : 0)));
        }
        else if(ev.type == ButtonRelease)
            start.subwindow = None;
    }
}
 
Based on how many X setup threads here, I think it would be more popular if it had a script that set stuff up properly and you just picked a DE/WM.
 
nap : The way I see it, FreeBSD's target audience seems to be people who don't get offended at being told to RTFM, and would not only do it, but actually have lively discussions about how accurate the manual is, whether the instructions follow best practices, etc.

FreeBSD's target audience is generally savvy enough to be able to learn to use the ports or packages, and figure out for themselves which DE they want. For such people, a default DE is probably not the best idea. 90% of them will change the default (and say 'mine is the best, yours sucks'), and the other 10% will stick with the very minimal default (Xorg's TWM comes to mind) for a variety of reasons. Those reasons can range from 'I don't know how to do it' to 'I don't wanna bother with doing it'.

Just about any DE can be themed to nearly any extent. Pick any DE you want from the ports tree, RTFM, and go wild! Kind of like buying paint and painting the walls of your own house, instead of being stuck with the ugly whitewashed walls of a rented, cramped apartment. :cool:
 
One of those questions came from someone I recently referred here. They used the tutorial on my site and emailed me asking for advise, apparently not knowing about the forums prior to that.

I'll fix that.

Myself, I've installed it a four times in as many weeks upgrading from 12.2 to a fresh FreeBSD 13 build.
Mixing ports for everything built before Xorg ,then pkg for xorg and everything else.
 
It might be a good idea (I had a draft project/script to choose and install a DE / GPU driver / GUI tools for personal use), I could revamp/update/improve it if useful.
DesktopBSD beat you to the punch on that idea, back in 2016. They actually had a tool like that. You can try getting it into the ports tree here at FreeBSD. As long as you follow the Porter's Handbook, and make your code fit to FreeBSD's established frameworks, you have a pretty good chance of pulling that off.
 
… people who don't get offended at being told to RTFM, …

First, ask yourselves:
  • how many times have you seen a newcomer steered to places such as the FreeBSD Handbook or the book of frequently asked questions?
Then:
  • why were those newcomers not already where they were supposed to be?
Three keywords:
  • suppositions
  • expectations
  • onboarding.
 
I think that this point is actually fairly important:
The target audience for FreeBSD is not pop culture, kids and their games. The target audience is those who need and want a solid, serious foundation for their work. FreeBSD does not create desktop software.
The minute BSD starts attracting the kind of people who inherently enticed by a fancy desktop environment is the same time we start attracting people who undermine the very things thatare unique benefits of BSD, i.e. stability and security. I myself think there is a strong argument for being cautious who you attract to the BSD community.
 
I was just sharing a simple thought and what a ride reading all of your comments. So here's my conclusion.
Surely freebsd can have the best of both worlds. From my perspective to think only in absolutes is just not right.
Maybe from your angle the BSD desktop doesn't sound smart, but it can be an option for all of those who just want an out of the box experience. No tweaks or headaches. Plain simple eye candy and responsive UI with all the standard features.

Anyway in the end it's just a vague idea but fun to try.
 
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