Someone has not seen enterprisy code lately. Or has, and has performed a chemically induced synaptic reset.So more sane but still a bunch of nonsense?
Someone has not seen enterprisy code lately. Or has, and has performed a chemically induced synaptic reset.So more sane but still a bunch of nonsense?
OpenVMS calls it DCL, so the concept's pretty old.Let's imagine we dropped the ancient Unix shell but glued everything through a super glue programming language, just call it: Bython.
Python is very close to this, but not yet, and of course it must be BSD licensed, so call it: Bython.
Shell is not even a programming language, but a loosely way to put other small utilities together to form a script.
The shell will be replaced. The small utilities will be dropped in favor of one central controlled environment.
Imagine:
Instead of writing,ls -a
, we would open our super glue programming language REPL and type this:
>>> SysUtils.list()
Another example:
Instead of writingsysctl vfs.zfs.min_auto_ashift=12
, we would write something like this:
>>> SysCtl.set(vfs.zfs.min_auto_ashift, 12)
We could optionally provide compatible layer for old Unix shell scripts to continue running, but:
/bin/sh will be a Bython script:
#!/bin/bython
SysUtils.shell.exec()
/bin/ls, /bin/cp,... all of these small utilities will now be just a Bython script.
Bython will need to be part of the base system. But who care about the bloat? All of the small utilities now just plain text scripts, we really saved space! And the benefit of having a proper programming language rather than a "shell" is much bigger than that!
Completely integrated. We now have total control of everything!
Let's abandon the old outdated Unix's way, let's start doing it the failure's way!
That, dear sir, is the Linux way. Perhaps failure is a Linux mole..The original basis of this thread is misaligned (for lack of a better word cause I just woke up).
It thinks that because "the shell" is old that it must be bad and needs replacing.
I saw nothing wrong with that. I even dreamed someday on FreeBSD instead of invokingwithout disrespect you failure ,
sounds like "one to rule them all"
like one virus in the world of linux that all people knows
the concept as it, sound too bad
horrible
ifconfig
I could just write sysctl network up
, done. sysctl
has the very potential to involve to be a super utility to manage the system, like systemctl
, instead of just a tool to change kernel state now.Bython should get things simplified more than the generic Python because it role as a system super glue language, not as much as generic as Python.Is that Bythonesque? It should really be:
Code:freebsd.system.internal.get_sysctl.set(freebsd.system.internal.identifiers.vfs.get_zfs().get_min_auto_ashift().get_id(), value=12)
easy, efficient, effective. You get to choose exactly 0.
In some ways, this feels a little bit like Windows Powershell. It is too close to a programming language, making it a little too awkward to use as an interactive shell. And yet not a particularly good programming language either.
I hate Lua Used to download ZeroBrane Studio on Windows to play with it a bit but have never able to have a running program!There is something strange in this thread: no one proposed lua as a shell. Where are the luanatics?
Is there anything wrong with the Linux way?That, dear sir, is the Linux way. Perhaps failure is a Linux mole..
Yes, as I've mentioned before. A recap: The NIH syndrome is strong in Linux community (that's kernel and userland but more so userland). They love to re-invent the wheel, and even if the wheel is perfect, they'll replace the axle and tyres/tires and call them spindles and rubber-thingies. They see an init system that hasn't been maintained for years and no bugs as a reason to re-write it because, well, you can.Is there anything wrong with the Linux way?
Well that's great. I hear a lot of people like Windows and MacOS. More power to them. Just because some other kernel or OS uses X does not make it fit for purpose for another OS.I really changed my mind after read a Linux forum a long time ago.
People on the internet cursing SystemD like it's 'shit', but the actual people using it daily praise it and pretty much happy with it.
Yes, I'm no racist: I hate everyone equally.I have learned one important lesson: don't care about the naysayers, they just hate you regardless of what you do is right or not
The only downside with SystemD is lacking of competitors, so I pretty much appreciate the Init Freedom movement, too, but of course without the BS about SystemD from them
I hate the shell because I have to remember too much.
# System-wide .cshrc file for csh(1).
# (environment variables are set in login.conf)
# Interactive shell
if ( $?prompt ) then
set completions = /usr/share/examples/csh/dot.cshrc
if ( -f $completions ) then
source $completions
endif
set aliases = /etc/csh.alias
if ( -f $aliases ) then
source $aliases
endif
set prompt = "%B%N@%m:%c02 %# "
set promptchars = '$#'
set ellipsis
set autoexpand
set autolist
set autorehash
set filec
set histdup = erase
set history = 5000
set mail = "/var/mail/$user"
set noclobber = notempty
set printexitvalue
set savehist = (5000 merge lock)
set symlinks = ignore
if ( $?tcsh ) then
bindkey "^W" backward-delete-word
bindkey -k up history-search-backward
bindkey -k down history-search-forward
endif
# csh(1) can't test a nonexistent variable...
#eval `reset -s`
if ( $?DISPLAY ) then
[ -n "$DISPLAY" ] && eval `/usr/local/bin/resize`
else resizewin -z
endif
endif
alias . source
alias .. cd ..
alias ... cd ../..
alias .... cd ../../..
alias ..... cd ../../../..
alias cls clear # clear screen
alias h history
alias j jobs -l
alias hgrep 'history|bsdgrep'
# human-readable number format (kB,MB,GB,...) for various commands:
alias df df -h
alias du du -h
alias swap swapinfo -h
#alias ls ls -G # XXX Better switched on/off via CLI_COLOR
set listflags = A # 'listflags' apply only to the builtin 'ls-F'
alias lf ls-F
alias la ls -A
alias ll ls -lah
# be verbose & do not accidently remove/overwrite files
alias rm rm -Iv
alias cp cp -iv
alias ln ln -iv
alias mv mv -iv
# 'resize' comes with x11/xterm
alias resize '[ -n "$DISPLAY" ] && eval `/usr/local/bin/resize`'
# be welcoming to Linux'ers
alias lsmod kldstat
alias insmod kldload
alias rmmod kldunload
alias vi vim
alias view vim -R
alias freq sysctl dev.cpu.{{0,1,2,3}.cx_usage,0.freq}
alias temp sysctl dev.{acpi_ibm.0.fan_speed,cpu.{0,1,2,3}.temperature} hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature
alias sysctl sysctl -e
alias top top -tzs 5
Try devel/kdevelop.I recall on my Windows days, I only need to know the language and the design patterns, typing the dot will help me anything else with the libraries, no need to remember anything, oh CSharp and Visual Studio, I remember them!
Honestly I learned most of these things (SystemD, The Shell, Linux's way,...) from Reddit and YCombinator and this help formed my own opinion. Due to limitation of English skill sometime I do copy the whole comment of people and only modify it a bit to suit the context and post on this forum. It's nothing surprise you found it's like dejavu because you might really did read the similar content somewhere somehow.BTW is this your 1st account in this Forums? The tone of your sentences sounds very familiar.
And THAT explains EVERYTHING! You formed your opinion from the worst places on earth. It's like living in the gutter, then trying to present your views business leaders as fact for how to run things. Never, EVER use reddit as a reference for ANYTHING! And YCombinator/HN can be just as bad.Honestly I learned most of these things (SystemD, The Shell, Linux's way,...) from Reddit and YCombinator and this help formed my own opinion.
Unfortunately this is happening everywhere, that was also my complaint against lua in the loader.They see an init system that hasn't been maintained for years and no bugs as a reason to re-write it because, well, you can.
Agreed. Please form opinions from personal experience. This is what adds to ideas and improvements. Not just regurgitating reddit. This is how religious cults full of "anti GPL or anti BSD" teens are formed.You formed your opinion from the worst places on earth. It's like living in the gutter, then trying to present your views business leaders as fact for how to run things.
I have yet to find a "Linux admin" running services who doesn't have at least one complaint about systemd. Yes, people who like to have Linux power their servers. So far, I have the impression that almost only desktop users are completely satisfied.From what I can see, about 50% of the Linux community still dislike SystemD. This is not impressive.
Having to manage about 800+ Linux servers (RHEL) at work, I have more then a few gripes with it. Having another client, where I only come once a week, to maintain a bunch of FreeBSD servers helps me keep my sanity.I have yet to find a "Linux admin" running services who doesn't have at least one complaint about systemd.
I find that I really need to use the controller advice pattern in most of my Enterprise software."Enterprisy" code, representative example: https://thedailywtf.com/articles/Enterprise-Incrementation
(no, it's not a compliment)
EDIT: "enterprisy" is when you have a factory, several observers and maybe a singleton with a model for something that can be done in a single line of code.
Present! I actually tried to write this. I got as far as reading a couple of chapters of Linux Application Development and getting the sample ladsh therein working on my Gentoo system.There is something strange in this thread: no one proposed lua as a shell. Where are the luanatics?
Till now no lua shell in spite of so much luanatics that want lua everywhere?!I actually tried to write this.
Tcl/Tk serves that purpose, but is not 100% suitable for a shell. You can call programs with exec.Now I thought this was fantastic for small interactive scripts requiring the odd bit of input from the user.
Yeah it is kind of similar to Awk in that it can, however it is a little bit less seamless than shell scripts. I.e having exec everywhere does sometimes suggest that the wrong tool is being used.Tcl/Tk serves that purpose, but is not 100% suitable for a shell. You can call programs with exec.