Will FreeBSD ever use the Linux systemd management framework?

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Instead of screwing with the current system (which is perfectly fine), why not just create a flexible mechanism where you can change between process initialization types? Sequential vs parallel, etc to suite a specific platform.

Besides, I'd rather have proper suspend/resume than trying to fix what isn't broken.
 
Lennart Poettering is responsible for writing this shit, same with Avahi and PulseAudio.


RHEL CREATED systemd, so its 'ironic' saying that is *SWITCHED* to systemd ... same thing with Fedora which is also Red Hat 'playground'.
SUSE is just for the money, they do what Red Hat do and vice versa.

Gentoo has MANY init systems, systemd is just one of them and its NOT the default.

Ubuntu just goes with the upstream, its 'cheaper' for them to not maintain their own 'upstart'.

Arch is just bleeding edge, no matter the consequences ...

Look at Debian and Devuan (fork), the Debian community has been cut to two halves ...

There is little to none hope in Linux ecosystem because of systemd, but Alpine Linux and Gentoo/Devuan are the last ones that are SENSIBLE choices.

There is one more choice regarding Linux distros: Artix Linux, which is quite new. It is basically the continuation of Arch without systemd and Manjaro-OpenRC.

As for systemd: no, simply no. It is a non-deterministic monster that will break randomly. And when it breaks, it is often impossible to fix. Add to that the "we don't care about security" attitude of the developers and you end up with something that nobody should use.

All my Linux systems will migrate to FreeBSD or Artix, when support for Ubuntu 14.04LTS ends.
 
Maybe it is just that the smart people who knew things should work did not work hard enough to maintain projects like consolekit. I think if systemd, or shims worked in FreeBSD it would be less likely someone would go through a ton of extra effort to make Gnome for example work with consolekit if shims make porting easier. As to why systemd is being so widely adopted right now in Linux I think it is as simple as a lot of little fragmented projects like consolekit stared to become stagnant, and unmaintained. So other projects like KDE said well now we have no choice we must embrace logind which is more active. So then in turn the maintainers of distributions said what choice do we have? This may not be the case at all but it's the only logical conclusion I can come up with.
 
Do the developers of Systemd have degenerative brain tissue? Do they work for a competing proprietary operating system? They ruin software, do they also make others' lives difficult who comes across them?

Why else would anyone make something so dysfunctional, and claim that it's so great?
 
I think a more interesting subject would be:

Will FreeBSD ever use/develop an event-based init daemon?

What are the actual advantages of event-based init daemons against the tradicional init system? (other than faster boots)

But, since the current subject is SystemD:

Oh that brings back memories...not good ones either. Windows Malfunctioning Exploit was something that Bill Gates fished out of his toilet one morning. It is by far the worst OS that has ever been inflicted on the tech sector. Microsoft should have been given 20 to life for releasing that POS. Any self-respecting hard drive worth its silicon would commit suicide if Windows ME was loaded on it.
 
...
Gentoo has MANY init systems, systemd is just one of them and its NOT the default.
...
There is little to none hope in Linux ecosystem because of systemd, but Alpine Linux and Gentoo/Devuan are the last ones that are SENSIBLE choices.
...

I run Gentoo without systemd on some systems, because like you said, it's not the default. I consider systemd to have a sort of domino effect. Yesterday, when I tried to install pulseaudio on my Gentoo powered box, it wanted to install systemd as a dependency!!! WTH ...

Why did I want to install pulseaudio? Because Firefox (as of 52.0) wants to use only pulseaudio, and no longer just ALSA by itself. So, you can see the domino effect (sort of) in the Firefox -> pulseaudio -> systemd lineup.

Pulseaudio does not have a hard dependency on systemd, but it was configured that way in the port because of the mindset that is taking everything over. It's a slowly creeping entity. So, today I'm trying to do something similar to the way FreeBSD handles pulseaudio / sndio, on Gentoo.

So, the monolithic nature of systemd can be seen not to stay within its original scope. Some of this may be due to developers just assuming that it should be used in configurations, but eventually it'll lead to a monolithic structure imposed on much more than what was the original premise ...
 
ronaldlees

systemd and pulseaudio (and avahi) come from the same deviant mind. People maintaining those in Linux should all be one of the systemd "promoters".

Btw, I do not have any Gentoo box anymore but Paludis seem to be more interesting (and probably faster) than emerge/Portage.
 
While everyone loves to be upset about the Linux development culture (and Lennart is indeed a complete jerk, but that's common in the Linux community), and everyone loves to hate systemd and the horror stories about it, consider these two factoids:

Administering Linux before systemd wasn't trivial either. The system configuration (both parameters of the kernel and interfaces, and which services to start when and how) was a huge mess beforehand. Systemd has not removed the mess (it really can't, there are too many moving parts), just arranged it differently.

And while I have not had to do any serious admin work on a Linux machine since systemd has been in use (matter-of-fact, I have done very little admin stuff on Linux in the last 10 years, with the exception of one Raspberry Pi running Raspbian, which does have systemd), I have friends who administer very complex servers (clusters, with high-end networking, extreme hardware, strange and powerful software), and they say that systemd doesn't really hurt. Once you learn the new location for configurations, and you learn the new commands, it works, roughly as well or badly as the old way. The transition is painful, because there are lots of mistakes: on the part of the systemd implementation, on the part of the integration that's done by RedHat, and on the part of admins who don't know the right way to do things yet. Once you are through the transition, it's back to the normal daily grind.

Personally, I'm very glad that I only have to administer (in detail) one FreeBSD server, Raspberry Pis (that don't have much interesting setup), and a few Mac laptops (which require nearly no administration).
 
Maybe it is just that the smart people who knew things should work did not work hard enough to maintain projects like consolekit. I think if systemd, or shims worked in FreeBSD it would be less likely someone would go through a ton of extra effort to make Gnome for example work with consolekit if shims make porting easier. As to why systemd is being so widely adopted right now in Linux I think it is as simple as a lot of little fragmented projects like consolekit stared to become stagnant, and unmaintained. So other projects like KDE said well now we have no choice we must embrace logind which is more active. So then in turn the maintainers of distributions said what choice do we have? This may not be the case at all but it's the only logical conclusion I can come up with.
Actually, it's systemd which killed consolekit by usurping yet another task.
This points to another topic:
the degeneration into sort of an uniform monolithic monoculture that makes individuality and progress impossible.
Like a slow slide into totalitarianism.

Think about it... what will become of Linux after systemd has eaten all except the kernel?
What remains will be systemDOS.
There will be little room for change and improvement.
Stagnation and decay will follow eventually.
And this was how the Soviet Union collapsed...
 
Do the developers of Systemd have degenerative brain tissue? Do they work for a competing proprietary operating system? They ruin software, do they also make others' lives difficult who comes across them?

Why else would anyone make something so dysfunctional, and claim that it's so great?

They are all (or at least most of them) RHEL employers, and RHEL live from support services. It is very interesting to RHEL if Linux become very fragile and difficult to understand because there will have more profit for --> RHEL. Same can be said about SUSE.

Aside from RHEL and SUSE, there are no other serious support bussiness available worldwide, nor for Linux neither for *BSD.
 
Aside from RHEL and SUSE, there are no other serious support bussiness available worldwide, nor for Linux neither for *BSD.
Except for Accenture, KPMG, CSC, IBM, Lockheed-Martin, HP, SRI, Northrup-Grumman, Thales, EDS, and a host of others. These are all companies that provide support, in many cases soup-to-nuts, and that includes installing the OS and getting it up and running. In addition, you can buy servers pre-installed with Linux from the likes of Dell, IBM and HP, and they all end up providing support for the OS. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. While RH is the 400-lbs gorilla of the standalone Linux support market, it is a tiny player in the overall computer services business (which has no single dominant leader).

Where you are right: in the short term, a more difficult-to-use Linux with systemd means more support workload for RHEL (meaning more expenses), and more revenue, as more customers renew their support contracts because running Linux without professional support is outside the skills or wishes of more customers. In the long run, making Linux hard to use is not a good business strategy. Remember who RH's real competitors are: Not AIX and HP-UX and Solaris (which are in various shades of dead), and absolutely not FreeBSD (which is mostly a hobbyist operating system), but Windows, and SUSE and CentOS. In particular CentOS, because it gives you everything RHEL does, just without the costly support contracts and the annoying license management. For customers with staff skilled enough to run it, CentOS is a good alternative, good for the customer, horrible for RH.
 
Why did I want to install pulseaudio? Because Firefox (as of 52.0) wants to use only pulseaudio, and no longer just ALSA by itself....
In FreeBSD I have www/firefox-esr installed with (for sound) only the sndio option checked and this works fine, but I don't know for how long. Other annoying thing is the dependency of Gtk3, which pulls in all kinds of Gnome stuff. Firefox ESR is the only version that is still buildable with Gtk2.

Indirectly systemd is affecting FreeBSD more and more.
 
Not AIX and HP-UX and Solaris (which are in various shades of dead), and absolutely not FreeBSD (which is mostly a hobbyist operating system), but Windows, and SUSE and CentOS. In particular CentOS, because it gives you everything RHEL does, just without the costly support contracts and the annoying license management. For customers with staff skilled enough to run it, CentOS is a good alternative, good for the customer, horrible for RH.

The main Linux clusters at Sac State are CentOS. But they also have a very knowledgeable support staff as well. I've said this a number of times before...right tool for the job, but I do not care all that much about Linux.

<RANT>

Linux is just the kernel. The rest is piecemealed together. This allows maximum flexibility depending on what you are trying to do. This is Linux's greatest strength, and also its greatest weakness. You have 15 tools that all do pretty much the same thing, all with different names, command-line options, build options, etc. I don't need yum, rpm, or whatever...pkg works just fine. This is why I like *BSD, it's not just a kernel and someone decides to hobble together a userland to make a distribution, it's a complete, integrated OS. If there's a security hole in sshd, I just make update and make buildworld and make installworld. With any Linux distro, I have to find the place where sshd lives online, download the new update, figure out how to configure and build it, then install it on the system, and hope it works. *BSD? It just works.

</RANT>

The Linux kernel itself is actually quite good though. It's well documented as I have the source code on my computer. So perhaps we can build a Linux version of FreeBSD. Linux Kernel, FreeBSD Userland powered by systemd, pulseaudio, and avahi (whatever that is). It would be the bastardized red-headed step-child of FreeBSD. :p:p:p:p <ducks>

I might save that for a heresy thread.
 
Where you are right: in the short term, a more difficult-to-use Linux with systemd means more support workload for RHEL (meaning more expenses), and more revenue, as more customers renew their support contracts because running Linux without professional support is outside the skills or wishes of more customers. In the long run, making Linux hard to use is not a good business strategy. Remember who RH's real competitors are: Not AIX and HP-UX and Solaris (which are in various shades of dead), and absolutely not FreeBSD (which is mostly a hobbyist operating system), but Windows, and SUSE and CentOS. In particular CentOS, because it gives you everything RHEL does, just without the costly support contracts and the annoying license management. For customers with staff skilled enough to run it, CentOS is a good alternative, good for the customer, horrible for RH.
Red Hat does not 'fight' with CentOS, Red Hat and CentOS recently joined forces:

https://community.redhat.com/centos-faq/ said:
Red Hat is taking an active role in the CentOS Project to accelerate the development and broaden the reach of projects such as OpenStack by expanding our base of community-oriented users to include those engaged with CentOS now and in the future.

By working with the CentOS Project, we can reach beyond those actively engaged in platform innovation through Fedora to projects and people in need of a community Linux distribution that’s open to selective modification while remaining relatively stable.

Red Hat support is, same as their Linux, sh!t. We do not use their support because if something is easy to fix, its pointless to make support request as solution is know or easy searchable on the Internet. If something is hard (like some nuances in Red Hat Cluster Suite or some 'internals') then the only thing Red Hat support does good is passing your service request over different time zones to different support people, but as its switched to new guy, he will probably ask You again the same questions ... You may ask why we have Red Hat support at all? Well, so called 'business' wants to and pays for so called support just to have support, because they paid for the database with support, for application servers with support etc.

We often 'split' these 'business' demands into Red Hat for production with support and CentOS or Oracle Linux (which is also RHEL clone) for test/dev.







They are all (or at least most of them) RHEL employers, and RHEL live from support services. It is very interesting to RHEL if Linux become very fragile and difficult to understand because there will have more profit for --> RHEL. Same can be said about SUSE.

Aside from RHEL and SUSE, there are no other serious support bussiness available worldwide, nor for Linux neither for *BSD.

You can also buy same/similar support from Oracle for their Oracle Linux which is, besides logos/colors, same RHEL clone as CentOS.










Administering Linux before systemd wasn't trivial either. The system configuration (both parameters of the kernel and interfaces, and which services to start when and how) was a huge mess beforehand. Systemd has not removed the mess (it really can't, there are too many moving parts), just arranged it differently.

CentOS/RHEL/Oracle Linux 6.x are easier (or more predictible) to administer then 7.x series with systemd. And its not only about systemd, no sir. Even installer in 7.x series is totally fscked up. For example, if in that 7.x installer You will create pretty standard 'enterprise' setup with two physical network interfaces coupled together into highly available interface bond0 (lagg0 on FreeBSD) and then You put a VLAN tag and IP address on that VLAN, then You get total mess which looks like that:

Code:
# cat /etc/sysconfig/network
# (empty file)

# pwd
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts

# ls -1 ifcfg-*
ifcfg-Bond_connection_1
ifcfg-eno49
ifcfg-eno49-1
ifcfg-eno50
ifcfg-eno50-1
ifcfg-VLAN_connection_1

# tail -n 9999999 ifcfg-*
==> ifcfg-Bond_connection_1 <==
DEVICE=bond0
BONDING_OPTS="miimon=1 updelay=0 downdelay=0 mode=active-backup"
TYPE=Bond
BONDING_MASTER=yes
PROXY_METHOD=none
BROWSER_ONLY=no
BOOTPROTO=dhcp
DEFROUTE=yes
IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6INIT=yes
IPV6_AUTOCONF=yes
IPV6_DEFROUTE=yes
IPV6_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6_PRIVACY=no
IPV6_ADDR_GEN_MODE=stable-privacy
NAME="Bond connection 1"
UUID=ca85417f-8852-43bf-96ee-5bd3f0f83648
ONBOOT=yes

==> ifcfg-eno49 <==
TYPE=Ethernet
PROXY_METHOD=none
BROWSER_ONLY=no
BOOTPROTO=dhcp
DEFROUTE=yes
IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6INIT=yes
IPV6_AUTOCONF=yes
IPV6_DEFROUTE=yes
IPV6_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6_ADDR_GEN_MODE=stable-privacy
NAME=eno49
UUID=2f60f50b-38ad-492a-b90a-ba736acf6792
DEVICE=eno49
ONBOOT=no

==> ifcfg-eno49-1 <==
HWADDR=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
TYPE=Ethernet
NAME=eno49
UUID=342b8494-126d-4f3a-b749-694c8c922aa1
DEVICE=eno49
ONBOOT=yes
MASTER=bond0
SLAVE=yes

==> ifcfg-eno50 <==
TYPE=Ethernet
PROXY_METHOD=none
BROWSER_ONLY=no
BOOTPROTO=dhcp
DEFROUTE=yes
IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6INIT=yes
IPV6_AUTOCONF=yes
IPV6_DEFROUTE=yes
IPV6_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6_ADDR_GEN_MODE=stable-privacy
NAME=eno50
UUID=4fd36e24-1c6d-4a65-a316-7a14e9a92965
DEVICE=eno50
ONBOOT=no

==> ifcfg-eno50-1 <==
HWADDR=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
TYPE=Ethernet
NAME=eno50
UUID=a429b697-73c2-404d-9379-472cb3c35e06
DEVICE=eno50
ONBOOT=yes
MASTER=bond0
SLAVE=yes

==> ifcfg-VLAN_connection_1 <==
VLAN=yes
TYPE=Vlan
PHYSDEV=ca85417f-8852-43bf-96ee-5bd3f0f83648
VLAN_ID=601
REORDER_HDR=yes
GVRP=no
MVRP=no
PROXY_METHOD=none
BROWSER_ONLY=no
BOOTPROTO=none
IPADDR=10.20.30.40
PREFIX=24
GATEWAY=10.20.30.1
DEFROUTE=yes
IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6INIT=yes
IPV6_AUTOCONF=yes
IPV6_DEFROUTE=yes
IPV6_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6_PRIVACY=no
IPV6_ADDR_GEN_MODE=stable-privacy
NAME="VLAN connection 1"
UUID=90f7a9bb-1443-4adf-a3eb-86a03b23ecfb
ONBOOT=yes

For the record, I choose 'STATIC' IPv4 address, but installer made these interfaces to use DHCP AND that STATIC address ... enterprise ...

After manual fixing with vi(1) this is how it supposed to look ...

Code:
# cat /etc/sysconfig/network
GATEWAY=10.20.30.1
NOZEROCONF=yes

# ls -1 ifcfg-*
ifcfg-bond0
ifcfg-bond0.601
ifcfg-eno49
ifcfg-eno50

# tail -n 9999999 ifcfg-*
==> ifcfg-bond0 <==
DEVICE=bond0
BONDING_OPTS="miimon=1 updelay=0 downdelay=0 mode=active-backup"
TYPE=Bond
BONDING_MASTER=yes
BOOTPROTO=none
IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6INIT=no
ONBOOT=yes

==> ifcfg-bond0.601 <==
VLAN=yes
TYPE=Vlan
VLAN_ID=601
DEVICE=bond0.601
REORDER_HDR=yes
GVRP=no
MVRP=no
BOOTPROTO=none
IPADDR=10.20.30.40
PREFIX=24
IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6INIT=no
ONBOOT=yes

==> ifcfg-eno49 <==
BOOTPROTO=none
IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6INIT=no
TYPE=Ethernet
NAME=eno49
DEVICE=eno49
ONBOOT=yes
MASTER=bond0
SLAVE=yes

==> ifcfg-eno50 <==
BOOTPROTO=none
IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no
IPV6INIT=no
TYPE=Ethernet
NAME=eno50
DEVICE=eno50
ONBOOT=yes
MASTER=bond0
SLAVE=yes

Not to mention that the same configuration on FreeBSD would be in 7 lines of /etc/rc.conf file:

Code:
ifconfig_fxp0="up"
ifconfig_fxp1="up"
cloned_interfaces="lagg0"
ifconfig_lagg0="laggproto failover laggport fxp0 laggport fxp1"
vlans_lagg0="601"
ifconfig_lagg0_601="inet 10.20.30.40/24"
defaultrouter="10.20.30.1"





Another thing ... if You want to have something executed at boot on 6.x You would put it as /etc/init.d/NAME, then put a link in needed runlevel (rc3.d most of the time) and viola! With systemd You need to create script, then create NAME.service, then systemd creates links to that NAME.service so it will actually eventually run that script ... surely a great improvement :ASD


And while I have not had to do any serious admin work on a Linux machine since systemd has been in use (matter-of-fact, I have done very little admin stuff on Linux in the last 10 years, with the exception of one Raspberry Pi running Raspbian, which does have systemd), I have friends who administer very complex servers (clusters, with high-end networking, extreme hardware, strange and powerful software), and they say that systemd doesn't really hurt.

Generally administrating Linux is not a pleasant activity, I work with Linux only because I am paid for that, with RHEL/CentOS 7.x its even more PITA because of systemd.
 
Other annoying thing is the dependency of Gtk3, which pulls in all kinds of Gnome stuff. Firefox ESR is the only version that is still buildable with Gtk2.
The gtk3 dependency looks bad, but you can't get far without gtk or qt on a FreeBSD desktop with common software. gtk should be stripped down as much as possible for FreeBSD, however. BSD's don't have their own homegrown full featured graphical toolkit. As of now, without gtk or qt, there aren't fancy scroll bar, tabs, or toolbars. There's X11, and Xaw implements, that work, but are not as fancy. tcl/tk might be ok.

Apart from that, the logo of Gimp for gtk is really strange.
 
The gtk3 dependency looks bad, but you can't get far without gtk or qt on a FreeBSD desktop with common software. gtk should be stripped down as much as possible for FreeBSD, however. BSD's don't have their own homegrown full featured graphical toolkit. As of now, without gtk or qt, there aren't fancy scroll bar, tabs, or toolbars. There's X11, and Xaw implements, that work, but are not as fancy. tcl/tk might be ok.
I don't mind Qt or Gtk2 because they don't pull in dependencies I don't want. Gtk2 is becoming quite old though and is on it's way out, so I use mostly Qt5 for desktop applications. Unfortunately some big and somewhat unavoidable applications like Firefox and Libreoffice are becoming Gtk3 only, and more and more tied to Gnome and Linux/systemd in the future.
 
And there is Gtk4 coming what probably will be even worse than Gtk3. o_O

EDIT:
Code:
...
We are going to increase the speed at which we do releases of new major versions of
Gtk(ie: Gtk 4, Gtk 5, Gtk 6…). We want to target a new major release every two years.
This period of time was chosen to line up well with the cadence of many popular Linux
distributions.
...
Source.
 
There are other alternatives we can resort to if that's the case. KDE has pretty much everything one may need in it's stack. I don't think they depend on systemd, besides replacing console kit with logind.

KDE has been doing a lot of things right, and i'm really liking their insistence on keeping a standard desktop experience. I could see FreeBSD backing it.
 
And there is Gtk4 coming what probably will be even worse than Gtk3. o_O

EDIT:
Code:
...
We are going to increase the speed at which we do releases of new major versions of
Gtk(ie: Gtk 4, Gtk 5, Gtk 6…). We want to target a new major release every two years.
This period of time was chosen to line up well with the cadence of many popular Linux
distributions.
...
Source.
Pff, the Gnome/systemd ecosystem is coming even faster than I thought.:(
 
There are other alternatives we can resort to if that's the case. KDE has pretty much everything one may need in it's stack. I don't think they depend on systemd, besides replacing console kit with logind.

KDE has been doing a lot of things right, and i'm really liking their insistence on keeping a standard desktop experience. I could see FreeBSD backing it.
FreeBSD is backing it in a way by the TrueOS activities. KDE is probably a better choice for the BSD's in general for these exact reasons. Only thing I hope is that Qt stays independent of KDE because I don't use a DE either, but that's another thread.;)
 
I don't mind Qt or Gtk2 because they don't pull in dependencies I don't want. Gtk2 is becoming quite old though and is on it's way out, so I use mostly Qt5 for desktop applications. Unfortunately some big and somewhat unavoidable applications like Firefox and Libreoffice are becoming Gtk3 only, and more and more tied to Gnome and Linux/systemd in the future.
You should see how gtk3 manages to mess up an application library for playing 2 second desktop sound themes. audio/libcanberra is for sound, so how do they manage to screw that up, my making its slave port, audio/libcanberra-gtk3, a required dependency for some ports. It is their choice, because those ports belong to them, but they should really split the FreeBSD ports tree, so they can do that, without complicating everything else for us. When trying to untangle graphical dependencies from sound, they try to make it look, like they are logically inseparable, but they really are.

About qt, I like qt4, but qt5 hasn't worked well for me. It crashed and caused building failures all the time.

KDE has been doing a lot of things right, and i'm really liking their insistence on keeping a standard desktop experience. I could see FreeBSD backing it.
No way. KDE may be better than Gnome for some, but it is another heavy desktop.

Regarding Systemd developers at Redhat:
They are all (or at least most of them) RHEL employers, and RHEL live from support services. It is very interesting to RHEL if Linux become very fragile and difficult to understand because there will have more profit for --> RHEL. Same can be said about SUSE.

Aside from RHEL and SUSE, there are no other serious support bussiness available worldwide, nor for Linux neither for *BSD.
My impression of Redhat used to be, it was upstanding. Perhaps they still are good, and I understand that they want to make an earning, but from what I hear about Systemd is ... (well, what this thread is about).
 
One thing that I want to point out about systemd, from what I have read and from what other have said in this thread, is this:

If you run a multithreaded program with the same exact input, and you get different results, then a race condition exists in that program. Based on what I have seen, the developers of systemd have some real talent there... They write crappy software and claim it's the second coming, then when you point out the problems, they fight with you and tell you that it's your problem, not theirs...or it's working as intended...or it's a feature and that you should love it and consider it a privilege because they graced your system with their fabulous code that can walk on water.

How can a race condition be working as intended? That's the hallmark of real coding talent right there. Top notch professionalism.

This is a case in point as to why application programmers should not be writing system software.
 
...and claim it's the second coming, then when you point out the problems, they fight with you and tell you that it's your problem, not theirs...
This is a characteristic expression of narcissistic denial.

And the paradox consequence of that is, instead of changing the destructive behavior, it is seen as "alternative-less".
And this leads to continuing this behavior against all resistance.
The final consequence of this is eventually collapse.

Do you know of any analysis of the Linux development psychological dynamics, in special regards to what happened in the course of Poettering taking over more and more of Linux?
Background of my question is that I am thinking much about how psychopaths manage to break rules and dominate, without suffering any real consequences.
There seem to be particular patterns that are always the same, allowing to identify toxic people.

(If you are interested in such things, I recently read a very interesting dossier about the background, how it was possible that a highly narcissistic, probably even psychopathic guy was allowed to fly B-52 jets, in spite of his many violations that would have him grounded permanently under "normal" circumstances. The story ended with this pilot almost crashing a B-52 into a nuclear weapons bunker, killing several people. )
 
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