questions about freebsd 8

W

wonslung

I was wondering a couple things about 8.0

First, is the system stable enough to use right now if all you wanted was ZFS and maybe a small torrent program like rtorrent or something? Also, i have 7.2-stable right now and if i wanted to TRY 8.0 would i be able to "import" my zfs file system without having to whipe it? and if i did decide 8.0 wasn't for me could i downgrade to 7.2 again? I do not have root or /usr on the ZFS filesystem, i'm basically just wondering if i could try it without loosing all my ZFS data.


ALSO, is there any sort of roadmap online somewhere that lists the scheduled release date? IS there even a release date yet or is it still under pretty heavy development, i did see a site that showed the new features in 8 but it didn't really give any word on when it's due to drop.

thanks
 
wonslung said:
First, is the system stable enough to use right now if all you wanted was ZFS and maybe a small torrent program like rtorrent or something? Also, i have 7.2-stable right now and if i wanted to TRY 8.0 would i be able to "import" my zfs file system without having to whipe it? and if i did decide 8.0 wasn't for me could i downgrade to 7.2 again? I do not have root or /usr on the ZFS filesystem, i'm basically just wondering if i could try it without loosing all my ZFS data.
Click to expand...
ZFS is version 13 in both CURRENT and 7-STABLE, so there should be no issue in using ZFS. Therefor I would use 7-STABLE right know.
Note: 7.2-RELEASE still has ZFS V6, so if you update your system you should update your ZFS pools as well. A downgrade of ZFS pools (V13 to V6) is not possible.

ALSO, is there any sort of roadmap online somewhere that lists the scheduled release date? IS there even a release date yet or is it still under pretty heavy development, i did see a site that showed the new features in 8 but it didn't really give any word on when it's due to drop.
Click to expand...
Generally 8.0-RELEASE is planed for the end of August (http://www.freebsd.org/releng/), slightly more information can be found at
http://wiki.freebsd.org/8.0TODO.

7.3-RELEASE is planed for the end of 2009 as far as I know.

mousaka
 
in the past i've used linux distros that were 2 months from release without much issue, but being new to freebsd i'm really not sure how fast/slow things move in the freebsd world.

I know this is likely to be an apple to oranges question, but would trying to use freebsd 8.0 now be anything like trying to use an ubuntu version 2-3 months from release? or is it much more "broken"

actually, i'm just going to go ahead and download it and try it on a machine i don't really care that much about i guess...

thanks for the good links
 
With -CURRENT things can move pretty fast. That's what it's for.

Having said that, I believe 8-CURRENT is pretty stable right now. Because the release date is closing in things don't change that much. It's mainly bug and stability fixes now.

Once 8.0-RELEASE is done the new 9.0-CURRENT will again move very fast. It usually best to stick to a -STABLE version if you want new features but also a stable system.
 
wonslung said:
in the past i've used linux distros that were 2 months from release without much issue, but being new to freebsd i'm really not sure how fast/slow things move in the freebsd world.

I know this is likely to be an apple to oranges question, but would trying to use freebsd 8.0 now be anything like trying to use an ubuntu version 2-3 months from release? or is it much more "broken"
Click to expand...

I had to use 7 Current for a year before it's release because it was the only version to boot on my machine.

You're probably going to want to build a new kernel without the debugging features enabled because that will really speed the system up.

Such as these:
Code: 
# Debugging for use in -current
options KDB # Enable kernel debugger support.
options DDB # Support DDB.
options GDB # Support remote GDB.
options INVARIANTS # Enable calls of extra sanity checking
options INVARIANT_SUPPORT # Extra sanity checks of internal

Also, you may not want to rebuild world so much once you get the system to a point were you feel it is stable. Because current is development things might be checked in that fix one problem but break something else. I had that problem with my SCSI adapter

Other than that you should be fine.
 
ATM 8-CURRENT is pretty stable and there's a Code Freeze coming soon, so things will settle down.
When you run CURRENT, you're strongly advised to read the current@ mailing list as this is the place, where the HEADSUP mails and the development takes place.
 
thanks for the info guys. I'm running 7.2-stable on 3 machines right now and i love it. I will probably wait until 8 is offically released to put it on most of them but i think i will go ahead and try it on one of them just to see.

thanks again.
 
if stable didn't require so much compilation, I'd probably be using it on my ZFS right now. Unfortunately the CF for root will probably not like my compiling (although I could put the source tree elsewhere). It just seems like a hassle that I don't feel like doing. The release copies tend to be upgradable with little problems.
 
kungfujesus said:
if stable didn't require so much compilation, I'd probably be using it on my ZFS right now.
Click to expand...
It only takes about 2-2.5 hours to build world and a kernel. And you could do it on another machine. Just do the build(world|kernel) there, NFS mount /usr/src and /usr/obj on your destination machine and start install(world|kernel).
 
SirDice said:
It only takes about 2-2.5 hours to build world and a kernel.
Click to expand...

You must have a *really* slow computer. My seven-year-old box does this in about hour and a half; a modern 4-core system goes through the cycle in about 20 minutes.
 
My box compile everything in 15 minutes. Dual core single cpu, 4GB RAM, RAID 1 sata. However, I've disable unwanted features such as ZFS, NIS, Bluethooth and so on using src.conf. I will try out 8 soon on one of those vmware boxes :e
 
I must agree NIS is very unwanted, and I don't know a soul who uses bluetooth (let alone on freebsd). Most bluetooth keyboards and mice have USB HID adapters that will translate the bluetooth, anyway.
 
DrJ said:
You must have a *really* slow computer. My seven-year-old box does this in about hour and a half; a modern 4-core system goes through the cycle in about 20 minutes.
Click to expand...

Even after a make clean and clearing out /usr/obj?

I've got a core2 dual 1.8GHz, 1GB and plenty of space..
 
kungfujesus said:
I must agree NIS is very unwanted, and I don't know a soul who uses bluetooth (let alone on freebsd). Most bluetooth keyboards and mice have USB HID adapters that will translate the bluetooth, anyway.
Click to expand...

I've been playing with it :e

Using rfcomm to get Internet connected via bluetooth on my 3G phone.
 
SirDice said:
Even after a make clean and clearing out /usr/obj?
Click to expand...
Yes.
I've got a core2 dual 1.8GHz, 1GB and plenty of space..
Click to expand...
Mine is a dual CPU Athlon (about a 3500+ by today's standards), 2GB, 15K SCSI. Builds world in about 40 minutes with -j3. A 3GHz Q6600 does it in 12 minutes with -j6.
 
DrJ said:
Yes.

Mine is a dual CPU Athlon (about a 3500+ by today's standards), 2GB, 15K SCSI. Builds world in about 40 minutes with -j3. A 3GHz Q6600 does it in 12 minutes with -j6.
Click to expand...

Why not remove unwanted stuff; it will speed up things ;)

I never used -jX flag.
 
vivek said:
I never used -jX flag.
Click to expand...

That explains it. I don't use it for the kernel (and probably could) but for world it works just fine. That is the more time consuming of the two anyway.
 
kungfujesus said:
if stable didn't require so much compilation, I'd probably be using it on my ZFS right now. Unfortunately the CF for root will probably not like my compiling (although I could put the source tree elsewhere). It just seems like a hassle that I don't feel like doing. The release copies tend to be upgradable with little problems.
Click to expand...

If you have a ZFS system, why aren't you using ZFS for /usr/src, /usr/obj, /usr/ports, and so forth? There's really no reason to keep those on the CF disk.

In fact you can also move /usr/local, /home, /var, /tmp off the CF and onto ZFS as well.

That way, the only time the CF disk gets written to is when you manually edit something in /boot or /etc, or when doing an installkernel/installworld.
 
wonslung said:
I was wondering a couple things about 8.0

First, is the system stable enough to use right now if all you wanted was ZFS and maybe a small torrent program like rtorrent or something?
Click to expand...

-CURRENT is in "code slush" right now, leading up to a "code freeze", heading toward a release (tentatively) in August. Things should be fairly stable and usable right now.

Also, i have 7.2-stable right now and if i wanted to TRY 8.0 would i be able to "import" my zfs file system without having to whipe it?
Click to expand...

Yes. -CURRENT has ZFSv13, which can read/use pools from earlier versions. If you are not using ZFSv13 on your -STABLE box, then do *not* upgrade your pools. Once you upgrade your pools to ZFSv13, you cannot access them from earlier versions.

and if i did decide 8.0 wasn't for me could i downgrade to 7.2 again?
Click to expand...

Not easily. You'd need to use separate partitions for -STABLE / and -CURRENT / (basically a dual-boot setup) in order to be able to revert back to -STABLE.
 
well i'm using zfs 13 right now with 7.2-stable...i have / and /usr set on compact flash cards and everything else except /etc on zfs (including /usr/local /usr/src /usr/obj and /var)

i'll likely wait to upgrade THAT machine till august if it's going to drop then.


But if i DID upgrade it to 8.0 now and wanted to go back to 7.2-stable wouldn't it just be a matter of installing 7.2-release, upgrading to 7.2-current then importing the pools?


I'm having some strange issues ever since i switched that machine to FreeBSD but i'm starting to think it's my ISP causing them and the fact that they coincide with the switch is just a coincidence.


The machine in question is a media server/torrent box. I've always used torrentflux-b4rt, so i kept using it with FreeBSD. Now whenever i download a torrent my internet latency goes way up. (ping rates go from 30-70 ms up to 1000-2000 ms) I've tried running different clients like rtorrent but it doesn't seem to matter. Seeing as the only thing i changed was the os on this server it made sense that something with the OS was causing it MORE THAN LIKELY but I honestly can't find a problem with the setup. I finally decided to try hooking the cable modem directly to another computer and seeing if the same thing happened and it seems that it DOES....so it's got to be the cable....it's just REALLY been driving me nuts. I've had Comcast out here twice and they say it's working fine....and i guess it DOES until i try to download a torrent...it doesn't make sense that one torrent going at 190kB/sec down and maybe 20 KB up would cause that kind of lag does it?


I can see Verizon putting FIOS lines down outside my neighborhood so soon it won't be an issue. I'll be really happy to get out from under Comcast....Anyways....i'm getting way off topic.
 
wonslung said:
But if i DID upgrade it to 8.0 now and wanted to go back to 7.2-stable wouldn't it just be a matter of installing 7.2-release, upgrading to 7.2-current then importing the pools?
Click to expand...

Yes, in theory that will work. :)

You could also snapshot all your ZFS filesystems prior to the upgrade to 8-CURRENT. Then, if need be, you can rebuild the OS as 7-STABLE, and do a "zfs rollback" to the snapshot taken prior to the upgrade. That will revert the ZFS filesystems back to the state they were in before the upgrade. In case you have /usr/bin, /usr/lib, or anything like that on ZFS (that would be modified by the installworld).

The machine in question is a media server/torrent box. I've always used torrentflux-b4rt, so i kept using it with FreeBSD. Now whenever i download a torrent my internet latency goes way up. (ping rates go from 30-70 ms up to 1000-2000 ms) I've tried running different clients like rtorrent but it doesn't seem to matter. Seeing as the only thing i changed was the os on this server it made sense that something with the OS was causing it MORE THAN LIKELY but I honestly can't find a problem with the setup. I finally decided to try hooking the cable modem directly to another computer and seeing if the same thing happened and it seems that it DOES....so it's got to be the cable....it's just REALLY been driving me nuts. I've had Comcast out here twice and they say it's working fine....and i guess it DOES until i try to download a torrent...it doesn't make sense that one torrent going at 190kB/sec down and maybe 20 KB up would cause that kind of lag does it?
Click to expand...

Maybe Comcast has started throttling torrent traffic?

You can try configuring the torrent client to use a low port (like 70, the gopher port) to see if that improves things. If it does, then they are definitely throttling individual ports.

Shaw Cable, my ISP, does something similar. If you modify your MAC and get a new dynamic IP, you get a blazing fast connection for everything ... *UNTIL* you start a P2P app. Then they throttle all ports over 1024, and some ports under 1024 (like SSH, bastards!!!). We found that port 70 wasn't throttled, so we have to use that for our SSH traffic to work systems.
 
phoenix said:
Yes, in theory that will work. :)

You could also snapshot all your ZFS filesystems prior to the upgrade to 8-CURRENT. Then, if need be, you can rebuild the OS as 7-STABLE, and do a "zfs rollback" to the snapshot taken prior to the upgrade. That will revert the ZFS filesystems back to the state they were in before the upgrade. In case you have /usr/bin, /usr/lib, or anything like that on ZFS (that would be modified by the installworld).



Maybe Comcast has started throttling torrent traffic?

You can try configuring the torrent client to use a low port (like 70, the gopher port) to see if that improves things. If it does, then they are definitely throttling individual ports.

Shaw Cable, my ISP, does something similar. If you modify your MAC and get a new dynamic IP, you get a blazing fast connection for everything ... *UNTIL* you start a P2P app. Then they throttle all ports over 1024, and some ports under 1024 (like SSH, bastards!!!). We found that port 70 wasn't throttled, so we have to use that for our SSH traffic to work systems.
Click to expand...

yah, it's also seems that the private sites don't cause the lag but as soon as i use a public sites the lag starts...the worst part about it is that it's not the top speed that suffers, it's the latency. I can go to http://www.speedtest.net and run a test before i start a public torrent, get a low ping and about 15,000 Mbit/sec down 4,000 Mbit/s up then when i start a torrent the ping goes from like 30ms to like 1000 ms and the speed drops to about 9,000 or so

i could DEAL with the speed drop, it's the loss in latency that kills everything...and comcast SWEARS they don't throttle. I'm really unhappy about it.

edit:

I just tried to set rtorrent to use a port under 1024 and i get this error
Code: 
rtorrent: Could not open/bind port for listening: Permission denied
 
wonslung said:
I just tried to set rtorrent to use a port under 1024 and i get this error
Code: 
rtorrent: Could not open/bind port for listening: Permission denied
Click to expand...
Only root can open ports <1024. Not a good idea to run rtorront as root.
 
yes, i agree.

Is there a way to grant the option to run on such ports to non root or is this best handled via redirect rules in pf?
 
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