How do you fix a crumbling society?

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PMc said:
What makes You believe in such reports?
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Why would I not believe them? There are fake news out there, there was and is propaganda. But there's nothing to be gained from faking these reports. And that was not fake. That is very close to a topic to convince a flat earther that earth is not flat. Also I know some Ukrainians personally.
Oh, my grandmother was in school when nazis came to Czechoslovakia. I heard first hand what they were and did (note I know your point lays the other way around in that sentence about nazis)

Being russian doesn't mean you agree with the war not that you kill people. Being russian doesn't make you evil. Those who are on front and killing people, those who are driving the war, those are evil. and those are pushing their propaganda.
Bottom line, the war on Ukraine is there, it's not a fake news. Innocent people are being slaughtered like flies. We should be able to protect those in need better.

Coming back to my point, that's why I feel the frustration with Phishfry and his original post.
 
_martin said:
But there's nothing to be gained from faking these reports.
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Propaganda is part of every war, usually coming from both sides. If there is nothing to be gained with it they wouldn't do it, would they?
Btw, there are 2 media narratives. Western media tell you it's bad Putin against poor Ucraine, non-western media mostly tell you it's the US against Russia. Now why would that be?
 
I could say everything is the fault of democrats. I could say everything is the fault of republicans. But I could ask what would advance us ?
 
I actually listen to Russian television. And visit Russian media too. While my Russian is not that good I can get around, especially if I read text.

My post was about Ukraine and how people suffer there. As I'm from Slovakia, due to the communist history forced on us before, we know Russians very well. With all the stupidity that regime comes with. As you Tieks come from NL you may not known that feeling when state tells you you can't travel outside because you may not come back. I could name many, many other ridiculous stuff from communist regime. The biggest enemy of Russia is Russia itself. But others had/have to suffer.

What matters now is UA and their people, their suffering. Nobody wanted to go to stupid war and now they need to fight it. And they are definitely fighting it for US, V4 countries and East Europe.

But as I looked into my children's eyes when they were sleeping and had the the photo of a dead child in my head I had to react to Phishfry post here. I come here for technical/FreeBSD stuff, it should stay that way. Maybe I was weakened for a moment and let myself write here too.

I remember when I first saw photos of Auschwitz, heard the stories about it and actually there were people at that time (i.e. during war) that didn't believe it's happening. And then I think about the sorrow and pain of people actually being there and nobody hearing nor carrying about them.
And same is happening with Ukraine.
 
_martin said:
Why would I not believe them?
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Well, firstly You might read the article linked above by Alain De Vos - and then conclude that nothing should be just believed, and all should be questioned for the motives behind it.

_martin said:
There are fake news out there, there was and is propaganda. But there's nothing to be gained from faking these reports.
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Really? I think if one reads only this thread carefully, we have already mentioned something that might be gained.
We have discussed that people, citizens, are transforming into passive consumers serving the big business. And it seems that a few countries, e.g. Belarus, and then most likely also Russia, are not (yet) moving into that direction.
From there it is an easy step to conclude that most potent powers in the world (those powers with the most money) have an interest to subdue and/or transform Russia, by whatever means they seem fit.
Looking for a motive for propaganda against Russia, there is one.

It is also interesting to study the historical facts. There one can figure that there is originally only one people: the Kievan Rus, all the same. And they were governed in times from Kiev, from Novgorod or from Moscow, usually from brother kings who were mostly engaged quarreling each other. This is nothing new, it is a 1200 year old quarrel.
The only thing that is new is the western powers fuelling the conflict with weapons, thereby creating maximum bloodshed.
So the next logical question should be "cui bono": is there somebody who might gain something from that? And then we find that there are certain "investors" underway (even among the direct offspring of Mr. POTUS himself), and such investors are certainly not interested in the people, they are interested in making money.

So that is just the known facts, and what can be directly concluded from them. There are many further questions to ask, but this should be put into the picture, and then it is no longer a simple picture of evil Russia.

What troubles me, however, is that people in my land are now freezing and hungering - and if this is just for some rich people to get richer, it is inacceptable. I would prefer the leaders of the Rus to fight out their quarrels on their own, like their viking ancestors did.
 
i am still suggesting this thread to close as it goes astray quickly. it has nothing to do in reality about meta-fixes to meta-problems but rather feeding emotional battle grounds on opinions same way social media platform does.
As for people, who trying to understand who are Ukrainians, learn ukrainian language to some degree, come here. live for a year or more, understand their will to live, their culture, which has been suppressed, murdered, gulag'ed, language exterminated for centuries. ( since mid 1600's ). Then, learn some russian language and move in village or depressed industrial city somewhere in Siberia and understand that people, what are their daily lives, their culture and what they breathe, and why. And you will understand for YOURSELF, who are who. And not listening to stupid media personalities such as J.B Peterson and alike. get books, documents, read papers.
i could go on as being born in USSR, living though all the shit this monster produced and staying proud to be decendant of real Kievan Rus, not one faked and spread by quacking ass Putin and his "history" assets.
 
I saw the OP of this thread about a "crumbling society" and instantly knew it would become a "Ukraine thread". Nothing good will come of this subject.

It seems some haven't learned from the last two world wars and the numerous conflicts in the middle east over the last few decades. Money and power, pure and simple. Propaganda and lies - and young men in the front line falling dead on their faces in the dirt, while the super rich elites sit safely back at home planning the next bloodbath.
 
_martin said:
Phishfry
I keep saying this for some time, way before Covid: people are getting dumber, more stupid. This is true world wide and is not specific to any country. Something happened around 40s-50s last century, people slowly started to be more egoistic, self-centered and later even more stupid.
Yes, of course there are very smart people there now and then, but the vast majority of stupid people is just overwhelming.
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Well yes, people got dumber during the 20th century, the root cause is exposure to leaded gasoline. And here's the scientific study behind it to back this up: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/03/220307162011.htm

Aside that the thread should be closed, nothing good will come from it if it continues much longer.
 
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