Intel Alder and Raptor Lake support

P

Pecka

When do you think that these architectures will be supported in FreeBSD?

Seems like OpenBSD does, even the iGPUs.

Also, how good is the support for the AMD equivalents?
 
Ok, I understand.

There was a Phoronix article where FreeBSD wouldn't even boot on Raptor Lake.
 
SirDice said:
What makes you think they're not supported now?

Their iGPU might be an issue though, it largely depends on what's supported by the DRM kernel modules. Which, for 13.x-RELEASE versions, is depending on what Linux 5.10 supports, for -CURRENT it's 5.15.
Click to expand...
I will normally receive the i3-13100F next week. I can then test how well this CPU works with FreeBSD, it's Raptor Lake. This specific model has no 'efficient cores', it only has 'performance cores'. It also doesn't have an iGPU (no Intel UHD Graphics 730). It seems to me that this Raptor Lake CPU might already work well with FreeBSD 14.

Does FreeBSD support DDR5 RAM @ 6000 MHz?
 
With FreeBSD 13.2-RELEASE intel 12-gen, alderlake is supported with e-cores enabled. And it is running very well on my i7-12700K system. I am not using intel graphics though
 
Alain De Vos said:
I use an alderlake "12th Gen Intel i5-12400 (12) @ 5.600GHz" & freebsd is working fine.
Click to expand...
The i5-12400F is also a CPU I'm considering. I mainly do browsing and lightweight productivity apps (and rarely gaming) with the CPU. The i5-12400F is 4.46% faster in gaming and 3% faster in browsing, but it is also 45% more expensive. For my use the price/performance ratio is less optimal. The 12400F is significantly faster in multi-core performance. The support for multithreading in consumer software has improved over the years but for many simple programs, multithreading support is still not implemented due to the complexity of the software build. Perhaps the extra multi-core performance can be useful if apps become slower in the future because more apps are written in Rust, JS and Python. So I'm not sure which of the two I should choose at the moment but it's going to be either the 13100F or the 12400F. I already have a motherboard and DDR5 RAM so I can't go for AMD anymore which I don't want either because Microsoft Pluton is integrated in it.

Alain De Vos said:
Also the audio.
Click to expand...
That's good to hear.
What has an impact on sound is the REALTEK codec and the implementation of the codec.
My motherboard has the ALC897 codec which is not considered a high quality codec but the implementation of the codec is more important than the codec itself.
What I mean is that how your motherboard implements the sound usually has more impact on sound quality than the codec itself.

It is a Biostar motherboard and according to a Swiss retailer they do not have a good warranty score:
videocardz.com

Swiss retailer reveals 'warranty scores' for GPU/motherboard brands - VideoCardz.com

GPU and motherboard warranty stats from Digitec One of the biggest PC hardware retailer from Switzerland shows the statistics from their warranty claims. Every graphics card life eventually comes to an end. The vast majority of graphics cards will be replaced by something faster, but the few...
videocardz.com videocardz.com

I doubt the correctness and usefulness of this Swiss retailer's statistics because a French retailer thought in 2016 and 2017 that ASRock had excellent statistics here:
www.hardware.fr

Cartes mères - Les taux de retour des composants (15) - HardWare.fr

La fiabilité est aussi importante que difficile à mesurer, si bien qu'elle reste inconnue. Cartes mères et graphiques, alims, ram, hdd et ssd : voici les chiffres dont nous disposons !
www.hardware.fr
www.hardware.fr

Cartes mères - Les taux de retour des composants (S2 2016) - HardWare.fr

La fiabilité est aussi importante que difficile à mesurer, si bien qu'elle reste inconnue. Cartes mères et graphiques, alims, ram, hdd et ssd : voici les chiffres dont nous disposons !
www.hardware.fr

The figures of this Swiss retailer are significantly higher for all brands, which raises the question of whether one of the two has simply published incorrect figures.
 
The number of hours i do compilation drove me to more "cores".
I you don't do many hours of compilation you can go for less "cores".
My MB is an "MSI PRO H610M-G DDR4 (MS-7D46)"
 
Alain De Vos said:
The number of hours i do compilation drove me to more "cores".
I you don't do many hours of compilation you can go for less "cores".
Click to expand...
I will choose the 13100F. I think it will be enough for me. I know all the apps that are the most lightweight and I hardly use any heavy apps with the exception of games. The 13100F performs much higher than necessary for the light 1080p games I sometimes play.
 
Whether the 12400F or the 13100F will be faster for browsing may be mainly determined by the RAM speed.
A 13100F with RAM at 7200 MHz might surf faster than a 12400F with RAM at 2400 MHz.

PT - BenchmarkXPRT

Principled Technologies Durham, NC, Industry-leading technology assessment, fact-based marketing services, hands-on testing of technology products, deliver the facts, testing reports and videos
www.principledtechnologies.com www.principledtechnologies.com

If you look up the 13100F in the link above, you will see that it scores higher in the most realistic browser benchmark (WebXPRT 4) than the 12400F and the AMD 5600X.
The 13100F result is also newer, so that also explains the difference.
It seems to me that the 13100F with fast RAM can beat both the 12400F and 5600X if the latter use slower RAM.
 
I don't think browsing speed difference will be visible with the naked eye. Probably it will depend more on network latency & webserver technology. Maybe a difference can be seen playing games in high resolution, playing videos in high resolution or doing intensive compilation tasks.
 
Alain De Vos said:
I don't think browsing speed difference will be visible with the naked eye. Probably it will depend more on network latency & webserver technology. Maybe a difference can be seen playing games in high resolution, playing videos in high resolution or doing intensive compilation tasks.
Click to expand...

In gameplay with a GPU the CPU is more taxed at lower resolutions (because the framerate goes up).
 
Currently unbelievable:

OpenBSD 7.3 on Gen12
executable without adjustment by default with x

It's never been so easy.
 
Alain De Vos said:
Alain De Vos said:
I don't think browsing speed difference will be visible with the naked eye. Probably it will depend more on network latency & webserver technology. Maybe a difference can be seen playing games in high resolution, playing videos in high resolution or doing intensive compilation tasks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
If you look at this website you can easily compare the two CPUs:

Intel Core i5 12400 vs i3 13100F: performance comparison

We compared Intel Core i5 12400 (2.5 GHz) against i3 13100F (3.4 GHz) in games and benchmarks. Find out which CPU has better performance.
nanoreview.net nanoreview.net
You can see that the 13100F is 3% faster in single thread, and the 12400 is 27.8% faster in multi threading.
JavaScript engine runs on a V8 engine that has a memory heap and a call stack.
JavaScript is single threaded which means only one statement is executed at a time. JavaScript will run faster on the 13100F.
WebAssembly can run multiple threads at the same time, but much of the web's WebAssembly code is currently single-threaded.
Both CPUs should be about the same speed in web browsing right now.
Surfing is what I do 80% of the time and I also use a lot of web apps so if they are just as fast at this then it seems I should go for the cheaper version.

If you use a midrange card, the difference for 1080p gaming will be rather small:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87917VwSAl8

164/157=1.0446
The difference is less than 5% for 1080p + RX 6650 XT and differences less than 10% are said to be mostly unnoticeable.
At 1440p the difference is 6.55 percent which is still not a noticeable difference.

You will see the differences more clearly during compilation and rendering.
Compiling ZFS is actually quite fast on my 11 year old dual-core CPU and I try to limit myself to compiling the apps/software that compile quickly.

MrX86 said:
OpenBSD 7.3 on Gen12
executable without adjustment by default with x

It's never been so easy.
Click to expand...

What performance does your Intel Gen12 CPU get in WebXPRT 4 on OpenBSD?

I am currently doing a hardware upgrade to increase my surfing performance by a factor of +- x 2.1
By using OpenBSD I'm probably going to cut my performance in half, completely negating any extra performance from the hardware upgrade.

So we're not going to do that.
 
Voltaire said:
If you look at this website you can easily compare the two CPUs:

Intel Core i5 12400 vs i3 13100F: performance comparison

We compared Intel Core i5 12400 (2.5 GHz) against i3 13100F (3.4 GHz) in games and benchmarks. Find out which CPU has better performance.
nanoreview.net nanoreview.net
You can see that the 13100F is 3% faster in single thread, and the 12400 is 27.8% faster in multi threading.
JavaScript engine runs on a V8 engine that has a memory heap and a call stack.
JavaScript is single threaded which means only one statement is executed at a time. JavaScript will run faster on the 13100F.
WebAssembly can run multiple threads at the same time, but much of the web's WebAssembly code is currently single-threaded.
Both CPUs should be about the same speed in web browsing right now.
Surfing is what I do 80% of the time and I also use a lot of web apps so if they are just as fast at this then it seems I should go for the cheaper version.

If you use a midrange card, the difference for 1080p gaming will be rather small:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87917VwSAl8

164/157=1.0446
The difference is less than 5% for 1080p + RX 6650 XT and differences less than 10% are said to be mostly unnoticeable.
At 1440p the difference is 6.55 percent which is still not a noticeable difference.

You will see the differences more clearly during compilation and rendering.
Compiling ZFS is actually quite fast on my 11 year old dual-core CPU and I try to limit myself to compiling the apps/software that compile quickly.



What performance does your Intel Gen12 CPU get in WebXPRT 4 on OpenBSD?

I am currently doing a hardware upgrade to increase my surfing performance by a factor of +- x 2.1
By using OpenBSD I'm probably going to cut my performance in half, completely negating any extra performance from the hardware upgrade.

So we're not going to do that.
Click to expand...
OpenBSD 7.3

For me so far everything is absolutely razor sharp.
 
MrX86 said:
OpenBSD 7.3

For me so far everything is absolutely razor sharp.
Click to expand...
What CPU are you using specifically?

Can you do me a favor and run the following test in Firefox or Chromium, with all other apps closed:

PT - WebXPRT

WebXPRT is a browser benchmark that compares the performance of almost any web-enabled device.
www.principledtechnologies.com www.principledtechnologies.com
 
OpenBSD 7.3 GENERIC.MP#1125 amd64
cpu: 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-1240P, 4390.64 MHz
2x : 16GB DDR4 SDRAM PC4-25600 SO-DIMM.
Iridium: Version 2023.03.111.0 (Official Build) (64-bit).
 
Anybody using the iGPU of their Alder / Raptor Lake CPU? I want to use it for transcoding so was wondering if anyone is using it (with drm-515-kmod, only supported on CURRENT right now).
 
MrX86 said:
Iridium: Version 2023.03.111.0 (Official Build) (64-bit).
Click to expand...
You probably use Iridium for added security, but it has been said in the past that Iridium may ultimately be less secure than other browsers:

Iridium is one of the worst options you can choose as it massively worsens the browser's exploit mitigations. For example, it switches to GCC as the default compiler (for no apparent reason) which disables a host of important mitigations such as Clang's forward-edge CFI, automatic variable initialization, etc.
https://github.com/iridium-browser/iridium-browser/commit/88880d192e8e1d1f94c2b1c1168c12dde76a1669

Iridium is also quite far behind on security patches and the developers blatantly lie about the security issues present in the browser.
https://github.com/iridium-browser/tracker/issues/274#issuecomment-629210956
 
Voltaire said:
You probably use Iridium for added security, but it has been said in the past that Iridium may ultimately be less secure than other browsers:

Iridium is one of the worst options you can choose as it massively worsens the browser's exploit mitigations. For example, it switches to GCC as the default compiler (for no apparent reason) which disables a host of important mitigations such as Clang's forward-edge CFI, automatic variable initialization, etc.
https://github.com/iridium-browser/iridium-browser/commit/88880d192e8e1d1f94c2b1c1168c12dde76a1669

Iridium is also quite far behind on security patches and the developers blatantly lie about the security issues present in the browser.
https://github.com/iridium-browser/tracker/issues/274#issuecomment-629210956
Click to expand...
Thanks for the hint

What would you recommend ?
 
MrX86 said:
Thanks for the hint

What would you recommend ?
Click to expand...
It depends on whether you are mainly looking for privacy or security. Which of the two do you think is more important or are they equally important?

There are some interesting browsers that unfortunately won't be available on OpenBSD.
www.waterfox.net

Fast and Private Web Browser

Waterfox is the privacy-focused web browser engineered to give you speed, control, and peace of mind on the internet.
www.waterfox.net www.waterfox.net
www.mozilla.org

Firefox Focus: The privacy browser

Firefox Focus is your dedicated privacy browser with automatic tracking protection.
www.mozilla.org www.mozilla.org
brave.com

Secure, Fast, & Private Web Browser with Adblocker | Brave

The Brave browser is a fast, private and secure web browser for PC, Mac and mobile. Download now to enjoy a faster ad-free browsing experience that saves data and battery life by blocking tracking software.
brave.com brave.com
vivaldi.com

Vivaldi Browser | Powerful, Personal and Private web browser

It’s a web browser. But fun. It comes with a bunch of clever features built-in. It’s super flexible and does not track you. Get the Vivaldi browser for desktop, mobile, and your car!
vivaldi.com vivaldi.com
www.opera.com

Opera Web Browser | Faster, Safer, Smarter | Opera

Faster, safer and smarter than default browsers. Fully-featured for privacy, security, and so much more. Get the faster, better Opera browser for free.
www.opera.com www.opera.com

The above options mainly focus on privacy, ad blocking and tracker blocking.
What should work perfectly is that you use Chromium with uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger.

Also good for privacy is using Tor optimally in combination with a VPN. But for me Tor is really slow and annoying to use and many things don't work optimally if you set a higher security profile in Tor because many content is blocked.

Pale Moon does not contain suspicious privacy-invading software and extensions, it is run by a privacy-oriented non-profit organization and it has robust security.

The Pale Moon Project homepage

Pale Moon is an Open Source, Mozilla-derived web browser available for Microsoft Windows and Linux, focusing on efficiency and ease of use.
www.palemoon.org

FreshPorts -- www/palemoon: Open-source web browser

Pale Moon(TM) offers you a browsing experience in a browser completely built from its own, independently developed source that has been forked off from Firefox/Mozilla code a number of years ago, with carefully selected features and optimizations to improve the browser's stability and user...
www.freshports.org www.freshports.org

If you want security, Firefox is fine.
www.mozilla.org

Download the fastest Firefox ever

Faster page loading, less memory usage and packed with features, the new Firefox is here.
www.mozilla.org www.mozilla.org

Something that might be safe is the Nyxt browser. Since very few people use it, very few exploits will be developed for it.
The browser is written almost entirely in Common Lisp, and 97% of programmers who develop exploits know 0.000% of Common Lisp.
In the past, people have successfully installed Nyxt on FreeBSD.
You then get something similar to very high security through obscurity.
 
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