Farewell FreeBSD!

I suppose that the title speaks for itself.

During the past last moth I have been involved in a major operation dealing with ~40 CentOS boxes that had to be moved to 12. Being a FreeBSD addict, junky, gave me the opportunity to take the job and complete it. Yes, the strong foundations are there. Yes, if you manage many FreeBSD boxes you can deal with anything.

Seriously, I became involved with something that I had abandoned 10 years ago. I became so involved that I could not believe how much this had evolved. It made me wonder though..

How can I deploy so fast and so easy so many CentOS boxes and have them also get their packages centrally updated all within hours?

I will not even mention the word "virtualization". I think it is a foreign word in the BSD world.
 
For the issues with package management, there's PKGNG ready to use now. For virtualization, there's only VirtualBox, but BHyVe is already merged to CURRENT.
 
Of course, you just can't abandon something that you have been enjoying for 10 years. And that would be a great pity. Yet as a strong FreeBSD advocate I feel that there is a whole forest behind this big tree and some of us, including myself, have been stacked in that tree. Please let me explain.

I have been following FreeBSD fanatically since 6.0-RELEASE. 8 years later in 9.1-RELEASE I am trying to find what has changed compared to the competition. The answer is a lot but the real question is what is the trend today, what do we need more or what are the possible competitive advantages that would make us choose FreeBSD.

The trend can be divided into two different categories:

  • Virtualization
  • Storages
I will start with Storages since I have been involved a lot lately. ZFS was marked production ready in FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE. Since then, a lot of things have changed that affected the future of ZFS. The acquisition of Sun from Oracle having the most impact.

To make a long story short, a different group was created under the umbrella of Illumos, developing ZFS aside from Oracle. I was against that idea from the beginning because I always believed that the wheel should not be reinvented. We have now reached to a point that we have two different ZFS versions.

Now, besides an engineer I am also an entrepreneur. My experience has taught me that large corporations that want to make money are willing to cooperate and/or fund large projects. Why? Because they get to use that technology in return. Therefore, FreeBSD could have benefit from that if only there was the right approach.

Back to the engineering path, we assembled two identical SMB servers, like the ones we often use, and we tested ZFS on Linux and ZFS on FreeBSD using Samba and AFP transfers. Same ZFS version and same hardware. The performance on the Linux (CentOS) box was always better to my surprise. We were trying to simulate a real world scenario where six clients would transfer data from and to the storage at the same time. It turned out that the Linux storage was able to complete the transfers 5-10% faster. Then, we did the same using Solaris11 ZFSv34. The performance increase was 30% compared to FreeBSD.

Point (2), virtualization. I honestly believe that KVM has progressed so much that it is not even worth comparing it with anything else. If you add Cloudstack to the picture you get a full hybrid cloud infrastructure. Someone mentioned BHyVe earlier. Ask yourself this question, when will it be production ready and by the time it becomes production ready how far will the competition be?

Point (3), package management. It is very disappointing that even with PKGNG on the way I can't create a simple Wordpress installation.

Point (4), I don't understand why -STABLE is not being delivered over binary updates. Why can't we have 9.1.1, 9.1.2 for example. Why only security updates and not important binary patches that fix various errata issues?

This is not just someone (censored) complaining here for no reason. I care for FreeBSD and I would like to see the project advance. But we need to wake up, step away from the romantic view and face reality.

Best
 
I believe @gkontos is right on the mark. FreeBSD has some great strengths, many of them in its clean design, but the mainline Linux distributions are vastly ahead on virtualization, almost on an even playing field with storage, well ahead on hardware support and quite a bit ahead with regards to package management. As much as I enjoy and appreciate FreeBSD it just can't compete head to head in most server/desktop situations.
 
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They may be ahead on hardware support, virtualization, possibly even package management, but I fail to see how that means FreeBSD cannot compete in most situations... Those are general areas, and when one gets down to specifics, IMHO FreeBSD has far greater potential awaiting, to be implemented sooner or later in each category... [ one or two exceptions I might think of, but not enough for one to get very concerned about if one does adequate research beforehand... ] ... in "most" situations; far from it. At least from this viewpoint, and I carefully read Linux forum posts daily to be sure that I am not missing any salient fact that makes the choice of FreeBSD rather than Linux for the desktop at least, unfounded.
 
Fair point about packages, I don't know enough about your other issues.

I am getting sick of the FreeBSD camp's attitude of "no one even needs packages, deal with it".

Good luck.
 
caesius said:
I am getting sick of the FreeBSD camp's attitude of "no one even needs packages, deal with it".
There's more to it than that.

If that was true they wouldn't have bothered developing a new binary package management system.

The real problem is that binary packages are not updated as frequently as many would want them to be, meaning that people refuse to use them, which in turn results in them being neglected even more.

As for the pkg_* utilities, they have been "neglected" for quite some time because
1) there are many third-party applications that can fill the void (updating, removing leaf packages, security auditing, etc.)
2) the pkg_* utilities will eventually be replaced (just like sysinstall was) so wasting resources on them is something the Project can't afford.

Hopefully all this will change with FreeBSD 10 and pkgng.
 
This "they" is simply individual users, developers, contributors each contributing a share; to disparage their efforts without input directly to the relevant lists, or citing the exact sentences upon which the criticism is based, is unwarranted...

As far as the post directly above:
I mix packages and ports extensively, and cannot be enthusiastic about pkgng as of yet, relying extensively upon /var/db/pkg directories at the command line, [explained in detail elsewhere... the mailing lists for example.]
 
All the best George. You have been a true help to many of us.

As a side note: I agree with the shortcomings of the FreeBSD OS that you mentioned and I fear that if things don't change quick, the OS will be so far behind, that many companies will see no reason to use it anymore.
 
The reason more people immediately choose Linux is cause they read about it on a forum somewhere and their friends all use it and not necessarily cause they studied the technical issues.
 
I wish you the best. I find many of your posts useful. Linux and FreeBSD are two vastly different beasts. You know FreeBSD is more concerned about stability and security while Linux is more concerned about bleeding edge stuff which is geared toward desktop users. By the way, FreeBSD 10 will be ready for virtualization. I'm more concerned about stability and security for my clients.
 
What @drhowarddrfine says is true in my case.

I ditched Windows 95 in spring of 1998 after buying a CD package with 5 different Linux distributions to try on my 486 machine. I even subscribed to Linux Magazine a few month later. But before my first issue of that magazine arrived (second class mail from USA to Netherlands) I already switched to FreeBSD which was featured a the Walnut Creek booklet that I received by mail.

One of my reasons to use FreeBSD was the excellent FreeBSD handbook.
 
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gkontos said:
Same ZFS version and same hardware. The performance on the Linux (CentOS) box was always better to my surprise. We were trying to simulate a real world scenario where six clients would transfer data from and to the storage at the same time. It turned out that the Linux storage was able to complete the transfers 5-10% faster. Then, we did the same using Solaris11 ZFSv34. The performance increase was 30% compared to FreeBSD.

I am not questioning your statement, but I am very surprised to read this. Everywhere I read it is stated that ZFS performance is better in FreeBSD than in Linux. That is one of the reasons why I have decided to learn FreeBSD and not Linux.

Nevertheless, I am enjoying the clarity of FreeBSD. It requires more reading but it is very satisfying.
 
blazingice said:
I am not questioning your statement, but I am very surprised to read this. Everywhere I read it is stated that ZFS performance is better in FreeBSD than in Linux. That is one of the reasons why I have decided to learn FreeBSD and not Linux.

Nevertheless, I am enjoying the clarity of FreeBSD. It requires more reading but it is very satisfying.

Improving ZFS performance requires optimizing ZFS settings. I've seen different results for both Linux and FreeBSD. Solaris ZFS will remain better than these two.
 
fonz said:
You can blame Oracle for that (and for a few other things as well).

Also can blame Oracle since illumos, FreeBSD, OpenIndiana, ZFSonLinux and few others now have forked ZFS. If Oracle continued with free ZFS updates then we wouldn't have ZFS derivatives. Since ZFS is becoming mainstream on Linux and FreeBSD platforms then Solaris will have much to lose. IMHO.
 
Remington said:
Also can blame Oracle since illumos, FreeBSD, OpenIndiana, ZFSonLinux and few others now have forked ZFS. If Oracle continued with free ZFS updates then we wouldn't have ZFS derivatives. Since ZFS is becoming mainstream on Linux and FreeBSD platforms then Solaris will have much to lose. IMHO.

I really wish Oracle would release at least zpool v30, if not the most recent version.
 
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