*Creative writing* How would you deal with a "Talking dog".

[saxon3049]

Right OK, one of my hobbies is writing sci-fi, now I am writing a series of stories following a single soldier in a territorial conflict, ok not a original idea on the face of it, but he is a dog handler. Now this is set around the year 5000 and I am wondering how to handle how the dog "talks" to people. I have a few options how to handle this and I can't decide.

1. I am dead against this, telepathy, but it's a no-no as far as I am concerned in sci-fi.
2. A vocaliser, a small speaker grafted into the dog allowing it to really talk but in a robotic, almost monotone fashion. Think Windows SAM.
3. This is the idea I like the most, a holographic projection, say about 1 ft in front of the dog's face, one of the premises is the dogs can understand English (read the notes) and each dog is matched to its handler, so when the dog wants to communicate with its handler it projects a message in a frequency that only its handler (partner) can see due to a corresponding retinal implant, and a public one that every one can see.

Now I like this because while the dog is intelligent I have this idea for a scene in the book where the soldier and his canine partner are sitting in a bar with other "partner teams" and they all have shots while slightly drunk, and the humans go "Wohooooo" after and the dogs (partners) howl after "shooting" a drink, then have a conversation about people they like in the bar. This is an off-world R&R station so think the worst of the Wild West but mixed with the station in the Starship Troopers film mixed with Blade Runner and you'll be close.

Now just to explain the whole "talking dog thing": it's a result of experiments late in the 21st century that became public knowledge and then after a while the "smart dogs" genetic mods got outside of the controlled program and now 60% of dogs are at least as smart as humans and there is a little bit of an attitude with the normal dogs and smart dogs. The smart ones call the dumb ones "mutts" and really don't like them socially but treat them like we do gorillas and other primates (close but no cigar), and some of them resent humans and call us over-evolved monkeys. But most of them are stoical and think: "Hey we were best friends when we were dumb, let's be even better than that now" or just get along with it and in the society I am writing about smart animals are considered "sapient" and can vote on species specific matters and ask to change partners etc. but the dogs at least still have part of their brains saying: "You're part of my pack, I still think you're a retard but you're my retard etc." It's something instinctive at a genetic level that can't be easily ignored (like we fear being alone in the dark, jump at loud noises, react to the sound of a predator etc.) and as the saying goes: "Puppies are for life, not just for Christmas", and the match is performed from human partner to canine partner very carefully, and the aging genes are allowed to progress as normal until the dog is a year old. Then it slows down to human levels.

So the partners normally stay together for life. I have this idea of the dog and the handler both being drunk after an argument and sitting in this alleyway, the human saying: "Dude, I have this image of you and me playing with my kids one day playing in this beautiful garden, playing fetch and all that. Man, that's my dream" and the dog saying back: "Playing fetch? What do you think I am, some dumb mutt? No, how I see it is your pups and my pups playing together while we both enjoy a nice drink over a bbq steak." The human saying: "Pups? How many do you see me having?" and the dog looks at him and says sarcastically: "Well, the way you were going at that girl before? Ten or twenty, only a small family. Can't see you having any more." The human laughes a little: "Oh yeah, how many do you want?" and the dog says back: "Oh me and Brandy want a big family, 60 or 70 pups easy" and the human looks at the dog and says "Brandy, you mean that Alsatian back in the Club?" Dog: "Oh hell yeah we [me? -- mod.] and Brandy have a seriously deep relationship, when we are out we are gonna settle down on a nice little farm and grow the pups." The dog gives the human a look and says: "Yeah me and the ***** are in love, of course I am joking but me and you man we are family." The dog looks at the human in a entertained way and the human says: "Family? Yeah, seriously?" and the dog says: "You know it, look I am seriously ****ing hungry. Lets get some food. Is there a kebab place round here? I could kill a kebab." The human stands up an says: "Yeah, other end of the street. Come on ya big mutt", looking at the dog, and the dog turns round looks at him and goes: "Yeah you big ape, come on, come on, who wants a kebab? Does the big boy want a kebab?" while wagging its tail *it's genetic like a smile* and they both walk off down the alley.

So now that you have an idea about how the relationship is between the dogs and humans how would you handle a talking dog?

 

[sossego]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callahan's_Crosstime_Saloon The version in here was tasteful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_boy_and_his_dog So was this one by the same author.

Piers Anthony had a different approach in one of his collected writings Anthonolgy.

 

[roddierod]

How about option 4? The experiments in the late 21st century were actually to decipher dogs' existing language of barking and such... kind of like how Han Solo could understand Chewbacca...

 

[ChalkBored]

I'd probably go with cybernetics, but that's just my kind of sci-fi.

The dogs can communicate with each other because they're dogs. The implants can help them communicate remotely, but they have their own language they speak to each other (bonus points if you use Klingon).

They can communicate with people because everyone's got some sort of implant. But most people don't speak dog, so they have to settle with using poor mechanical translations.

In a situation where dogs work closely with people all the time, they pick up each others' language and can have more detailed conversations. But when a handler talks to a different dog, or the dog talks to a different person, it ends up losing something, and sounds like talking with a bad accent.

 

[roddierod]

Oh... and the dogs should be Rottweilers.

 

[Uniballer]

"The Dog Said Bow-Wow" by Michael Swanwick

"Sergeant Chip" by Bradley Denton

Oh... and the dogs should be Rottweilers.

Why? Pretty much all I know about Rottweilers.

 

[Crivens]

My first thought was "When the dog talks, you need to stop smoking that stuff."

But fiction is something else You are free to handle this any way you want, maybe some escaped retro-virus or progress in machine traching or whatever you want.

Oh... and the dogs should be Rottweilers.

With lasers mounted on their heads. Rottweilers are not among the brightest dogs I have met, to put it polite.

 

[kpedersen]

Perhaps in the future, dogs will evolve to have a thumb and can use a pencil and paper. Think of this as the UNIX-like solution to the problem

On a more serious note, the dog could use a professional translator. A person who is half human, half dog.

All in all, I like the idea of this story. I like dogs and I like the future. This is a perfect match. :beer

Edit:

Rottweilers are not among the brightest dogs I have met, to put it polite.

For some reason I read this as:

"Rottweilers are not among the brightest dogs I have met, but very polite."

In any case, I hope this sort of stereotyping is *not* present in the year 5000

 

[Crivens]

On a more serious note, the dog could use a professional translator. A person who is half human, half dog.

This would beg the question of how this "translator" came to be - but please keep it SFW

Edit:

For some reason I read this as:

"Rottweilers are not among the brightest dogs I have met, but very polite"

In any case, I hope this sort of stereotyping is *not* present in the year 5000

I have seen more (trained) hunting dogs than rottweilers, so I confess to have a bias. Those are bred for intelligence and performance, not fashion. Once you had seen one of them planning some mischief, planning a cover up and then being sad at this not working out (note to dogs: humans can carry these things called binoculars, which enable them to see what you are doing half a mile away without you seeing them!) - you can only smile at some of these dogs.

I also remember reading a sci-fi story containing something like a talking dog, but I have not yet managed to get past the first 20 pages. I can let you know how that was supposed to work out. Currently the landing party is aboard a shuttle and one of the passengers travels in a case and talks out of it - much to the annoyance of the pilot.

 

[roddierod]

I've had Rottweilers for the last 20 years. I think people who don't know them might think they are not bright because they can be goofy or clumsy, but they usually are very intelligent and pick up on things quickly. If you treat them right they are very loyal, but if you do not that when you run into issue.

My last dog Clyde, I got when he was 4... it turns out that he was owned by an NFL quarterback who had grown up in my town and he had purchased him to fight him (think back to the entire Mick Vick thing for people in the US... it wasn't Mick Vick though). Anyway the day I meet him the guy had him tied to a fence and he was barking a growling and lunging. I walk up to him and he was licking me. He just wanted not to be tied up like that. I untied him and he was calm and happy and I walked him home. He lived to be 10; got nasal cancer. But I never had a single issue with him, walking him around town he never bothered anyone or even barked.

I've had five in the last 20 years. All were natural guard dogs, all of them, even though weighing about 120 had one or two in the 150 range, were lap dogs.

As for the story, I'd think because they are fiercely loyal and they love to carry and pull stuff, they were originally bred to be cart dogs, I could just imagine them as some kind of futuristic soldier.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

Maybe another dog that is the translator. Not all dogs can speak human languages.

 

[Crivens]

@roddierod, Rottweilers are indeed bred for guarding. Loyal they are, also. But as so often, the owner/trainer defines the dog. And once a race gets "fashionable", I have pity for the dogs. The German Shepherd dog, for example, is now often bred for looks. The result are dogs with hip problems and temper problems. You would not like them near your sheep.

Most dogs obtained from animal shelters are, when mentally fit, also extremly grateful and loyal.

Oh, and please accept a toast on Clyde, it seems like he was one of the lucky ones to find a caring owner, no, friend, in time.

 

[roddierod]

@roddierod, Rottweilers are indeed bred for guarding. Loyal they are, also. But as so often, the owner/trainer defines the dog. And once a race gets "fashionable", I have pity for the dogs. The German Shepherd dog, for example, is now often bred for looks. The result are dogs with hip problems and temper problems. You would not like them near your sheep.

Most dogs obtained from animal shelters are, when mentally fit, also extremly grateful and loyal.

Oh, and please accept a toast on Clyde, it seems like he was one of the lucky ones to find a caring owner, no, friend, in time.

Thanks, I miss that guy, he's still my avatar.

I have two friends with full blooded German Shepherds. One has a number of health problems.

Pit bulls I've never liked, but that probably [comes? -- mod.] from the "fashionable" aspect. Now I see, at least in my area, that Great Danes are becoming the rage, there are about five in a two-block radius near me.

 

[ShelLuser]

Aahh, now honestly; it's topics like these (the diversity) which really make the FreeBSD forums for me. I mean; in one thread you're talking ZFS, base systems and kernels, and in the other purely fictional (or domestic) stuff.

I love dogs, admire them. So much that I don't have one. That may sound silly, but because I'm self employed it's no exception for me to have days where I spend 10 hours straight behind the PC (with some breaks in between of course). But during those times I can't afford to step away from the office to walk a dog. Sure; you can walk him for 10 minutes so that he can pee, that's in my very humble opinion not the right thing to do.

When I walk a dog we're out for at least one hour (I often volunteer for friends and neighbours to walk their dogs).

What I love most is the logic behind it. I mean; sure, there are nasty dogs around but in many (not all!) cases you can see it coming by observing the dog. How is he/she reacting, what is their stance, how are they looking at you? For me it starts with the simple things; stick out your hand so that they can pick up your scent. Not sure if that's the right way but that's what I always do and so far it worked perfectly for me (my theory behind that is that my jeans are usually carefully washed; so I could imagine that the best scent you get from it is that of the cleaning powder).

Now; to address the subject at hand.

I'd go for something a little more abstract while also easy enough to make sense. Why not make it so that the person can understand the dog by his stance? It doesn't have to be whole conversations, but you can narrow it down to certain key elements. A certain stance can mean "beware danger, coming from that direction" (dogs have a very good sense of scent) or "she really likes you, look at her looking at you dog" while all us mere humans see is a mere peek or glance.

I know, I know; it's science fiction, the dog should have much more sophisticated means for communication.

"Just my luck, I started out on a new mission with Chop and all of a sudden his brainbox failed on me. Software errors my behind, those tech guys sure have a way of talking their way out of their own stupidity. They should have used another computer program for that stuff.. What was that free OS called from the 1900's? BS Free or something like that? You'd hardly find anyone complaining about that! But here I am, stuck with a brainbox which is only provided by some high tech non caring company. Guess we'll have Chop back talking as his usual self within a few months or so, so much for that. Fortunately we're really close and I have a very good sense of what he's trying to tell me...".

And voila! Instant excuse for using the not-so-modern dog communication approaches

 

[ronaldlees]

Dr Doolittle

If you go with a translation device, you might be using what is really an extrapolation of not-far-off realities. Check out "Chasing Dr. Doolittle," a book that I think was written by a university prof (Arizona, maybe) who's been analyzing barks for years. I think he made the claim that - roughly - one paragraph's worth of information is contained in the single bark of a praire dog. Supposedly, the compressed information can be understood by a praire dog while a human's ear is too cumbersome and has insufficient response to decipher barks as anything other than utterances of single elements of information. I may have a few details wrong, as I never read the book - but I did listen to an interview about it. It sounds pretty wild, but who knows?

 

[Uniballer]

@roddierod... once a race gets "fashionable", I have pity for the dogs. The German Shepherd dog, for example, is now often bred for looks. The result are dogs with hip problems and temper problems. You would not like them near your sheep.

This has been happening to most, if not all, breeds and all over the world. I suspect the USA is the worst for this. There are still people who prefer performance dogs, though.

When it comes to German Shepherd dogs, Schutzhund (protection dog work) has been considered an alternative to Herdengebrauchshund (sheep herding in the tending style) for breeding qualification for a long time.

My dog club's training director handling my dog's father in recent championship. Nice dog.

 

[sossego]

If you go with a translation device, you might be using what is really an extrapolation of not-far-off realities. Check out "Chasing Dr. Doolittle," a book that I think was written by a university prof (Arizona, maybe) who's been analyzing barks for years. I think he made the claim that - roughly - one paragraph's worth of information is contained in the single bark of a praire dog. Supposedly, the compressed information can be understood by a praire dog while a human's ear is too cumbersome and has insufficient response to decipher barks as anything other than utterances of single elements of information. I may have a few details wrong, as I never read the book - but I did listen to an interview about it. It sounds pretty wild, but who knows?

Arf arf grrrr grrr bow wow yelp arf arf!!!

 

[Crivens]

I love dogs, admire them. So much that I don't have one.

That is very much how I see it. I have not, had not and most likely will not have the time to not only keep a dog but to be a companion for him. After all, he is one to us, is he not?

Arf arf grrrr grrr bow wow yelp arf arf!!!

No, you clean up the carpet yourself, thank you very much.


On the original topic, since apes can handle sign language - did anyone try to teach a dog sign language? I know that dogs can understand a lot of hand signs, and even come up with their own communication methods. Border collies are known to demonstrate logic conclusions.

 

[fonz]

Arf arf grrrr grrr bow wow yelp arf arf!!!

Translation? (I'll turn a blind eye to the triple exclamation marks this time because it might be part of the language )

 

[fonz]

But during those times I can't afford to step away from the office to walk a dog. Sure; you can walk him for 10 minutes so that he can pee, that's in my very humble opinion not the right thing to do.

I quite agree. Although I'm actually more of a cat person myself I don't dislike dogs and I do think one should only get one if one has the time to take proper care of it. Dogs are generally very social(able) animals; not only do they need to be walked, they need training and companionship.

People who are looking for a pet that requires little maintenance might instead want to consider a snake or something. As long as you stay away from the venomous species (those are only for specialists who really know what they're doing, and even then it's debatable whether they should be kept as pets at all) and the larger constrictor species (if anything, they can easily get quite simply too heavy for one person to handle safely) they are usually fairly easy to keep and do not require a whole lot of care.

(I often volunteer for friends and neighbours to walk their dogs).

You're not actually my dad knowing more about computers (and speaking better English) than he lets on, are you? All kidding aside, my father walks his neighbours' dog (a "blonde" Labrador) at least twice a week and I occasionally fill in for him. Both of us usually take it for longer walks than its owners do; typically 30 to 60 minutes (as opposed to five or ten minutes).

Now; to address the subject at hand.

Speaking of which (turning to the OP now)...

One option is to go the Family Guy way: as far as I know it has never really been explained how Brian can intelligently converse with humans, or how Peter can understand Ernie the Giant Chicken for that matter. They just do somehow. I suppose that on the one hand this makes things easier, but on the other hand we're talking about creative sci-fi writing and if you can to some extent explain how dogs and humans can communicate it can provide a rich source of puns.

For example, if you're going with a technological device of some sorts, it can either occasionally fail completely or fail to grasp the finer nuances between human language and dog language. In the former case both human and dog are left with very basic communication which could easily lead to major misunderstandings. And in the second case there are plenty of "lost in translation" scenarios imaginable. Surely both have the potential for hilarious situations.

 

[saxon3049]

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback and the ideas, I am still considering how the dogs and humans communicate however I am thinking of doing a mix of options. Now onto a few additional things;

1. What bread of dog, well I have pictured the dog as a Doberman Alsatian cross like the fine chaps pictured here. The main reason is I know one owned by a friend and it's got a great personality and they are quite smart to begin with.
2. Understanding "dog talk" in the Doolittle style, this is something I don't want to do (the Gopher thing is interesting) but one of the central points of this story is the dogs (and some other animals in this universe) are as smart as us, through genetic modification experiments.
3. Translation from mutt to smart dog - this is not something I have thought of however it is a interesting idea and I might work it in at some point in some way.

Without giving away too much of the story it's an inter-species conflict that the partner team I am writing about is involved in and this particular team are reconnaissance specialists (not all teams are, some are combat engineering teams, front line soldiers etc) and I want to be "tech lite". I don't want to go into why a technology works like this except where it is essential to the story, the one place I am resigned to doing it is during the whole explanation of why the dogs can communicate. Even then I am going to only talk in generalities.

Please keep tossing the ideas around guy's, they are really sparking ideas.

@roddierod You rock for giving a dog like that a home; I owe you a beer, sir.

 

[arp242]

"Genetically engineering" any animal to any degree of intelligence even remotely close to human is highly improbable, given that we know next to nothing about how the human brain works, how the genetic code works, and how concepts such as awareness and consciousness work.

I always feel it's always better not to explain something instead of coming up with a crappy explanation. So, ehh, borrowing from "Roadside Picknick", just mention some mysterious event, or perhaps even less, dogs "just became as intelligent". This doesn't only keep the reader from suffering a rather dumb explanation, it would also add a new level of suspense and lingering fear. A good writer doesn't just know what to tell the reader, he also knows what not to tell the reader.

I also liked District 9, where the people speak English and the aliens speak, well, alien, but both can understand each other. I thought this was rather clever, there's no reason to assume other animals (or aliens) have the physical capability to actually produce language-like sounds, and there's also no reason why they shouldn't be able to understand human language, given that they can pick up & mentally process the sounds.

Perhaps this is an idea you can use...

 

[Erratus]

Once upon a day a wolf came along the fence. The smart dog asked the wolf: "Hey, how did you make it looking so good?" "I'm a hunter," replied the wolf "therefore I did not believe in the promises of the two-legged. They told me, that I'll get all the food from them and there is no more need for hunting if I would join them. Those two-legged must be idiots for offering me such a nonsense" he added. "Why?" asked the smart dog. "Hunting is hard, but it is fun after all. And I get all the good looking wolf ladies too" said the wolf. "Oh my dog heaven!..." yelped the dog, "how do I get rid of that smartness?" "You do not need to get rid of it. You could tell your story to my fellow wolfs. Just jump over the fence!" whispered the wolf. The smart dog took a run for jumping over the fence. However, he failed the first go. The second round he failed even more. "Looks like I've gotten too fat," sadly the poor dog said. "I would bite the master's hand, when he gives food next time" the wolf said and disappeared.

 

[saxon3049]

"Genetically engineering" any animal to any degree of intelligence even remotely close to human is highly improbable, given that we know next to nothing about how the human brain works, how the genetic code works, and how concepts such as awareness and consciousness work.

I always feel it's always better not to explain something instead of coming up with a crappy explanation. So, ehh, borrowing from "Roadside Picknick", just mention some mysterious event, or perhaps even less, dogs "just became as intelligent". This doesn't only keep the reader from suffering a rather dumb explanation, it would also add a new level of suspense and lingering fear. A good writer doesn't just know what to tell the reader, he also knows what not to tell the reader.

I also liked District 9, where the people speak English and the aliens speak, well, alien, but both can understand each other. I thought this was rather clever, there's no reason to assume other animals (or aliens) have the physical capability to actually produce language-like sounds, and there's also no reason why they shouldn't be able to understand human language, given that they can pick up & mentally process the sounds.

Perhaps this is an idea you can use...

You know what, since something similar was recommended I recalled D9 and I have tried to work it in as a alternative, with some of the stories I have already written and it just lacks a certain something I can't quite put my finger on. I already have the basic rough of a story (FAR, FAR, FAR from final and it is flexible) and there is a part I really like where the partners are moved forward to a trench warfare front and the "type partners" are most prevalent in trench wars are teams of BIG guys and bull dogs. Both are slower in movement speed because they are in overbuilt body armour but are damn near imposable to stop an drop, and the main team are the direct opposite: light, fast moving and quiet and my guys drop out of line to have a rest and the "Bulks" (name I have given to the other team wearing heavy armour) come over and try and bully them forward but they end up having a chat.

Later on they meet up, and there is a serious poop storm (toned down for the mods and under 18's) and they can't advance with the lighter troopers (read: my guys). The whole situation is like the Somme, and the two teams have to work together to advance and when they do take the other side of the line instead of having a bunch of troopers to back them up after advancing eight miles, the Enemy cut them off (early in the story arc).

BTW I thought I would show you the image and the story that inspired the idea.

And the story that made me think of the whole "family idea" the BBC story and here is the wiki.

Once upon a day a wolf came along the fence. The smart dog asked the wolf: "Hey, how did you make it looking so good?" "I'm a hunter," replied the wolf "therefore I did not believe in the promises of the two-legged. They told me, that I'll get all the food from them and there is no more need for hunting if I would join them. Those two-legged must be idiots for offering me such a nonsense" he added. "Why?" asked the smart dog. "Hunting is hard, but it is fun after all. And I get all the good looking wolf ladies too" said the wolf. "Oh my dog heaven!..." yelped the dog, "how do I get rid of that smartness?" "You do not need to get rid of it. You could tell your story to my fellow wolfs. Just jump over the fence!" whispered the wolf. The smart dog took a run for jumping over the fence. However, he failed the first go. The second round he failed even more. "Looks like I've gotten too fat," sadly the poor dog said. "I would bite the master's hand, when he gives food next time" the wolf said and disappeared.

You know, I know that story from somewhere... however, reading it just made me want to work in a conversation between a dumb dog and a smart dog... it REALLY set me thinking, thank you

EDIT:

In addition to my last post, I have this idea of the Enemy being able to use Holograms and sounds etc as a terror weapon, you know the way the US army plays some songs on loud speaker in a conflict area? I am Thinking of stuff like shadow of a person walking towards some one, or the sound of some one talking played backwards to them a or the same thing said again in a really messed up way delayed by a second etc as a psychological hack and to get my guy's through part of the trench the smart dog has to bite hs partner reluctantly to wake him from the psyren song and the dog has to have a collar on (odd for smart dogs) to remind him that things he is seeing are not real, for example:

Dog, has just had to bite his partner on the wrist to stop him from pulling the pin on a grenade and he drew blood, and a hallucinogen makes him think backwards starting to lick his lips and looking at his partner etc an he thinks "look at that monkey big juicy meat, he trust me i'll separate him and then ask him for some food and eat his delicious meat"then he is brought back by a loud sound of a weapon fireing right next to his head, he turns to his partner and says, we need to shut them down right now, RICHGT NOW!!! the dog shakes it's head and looks at one of the Bull dogs just before it attacks the partner it dives on the other dog and pulls out it's neural implant to shock it still....