Linux vs. BSD = No real difference?

Like both. Free and Open BSD along with Slackware. They are very similar and raw to the grinds and gears of an operating system, plus they are both closer to unix amd each other with slight variations in syntax, etc. imho.
 
throAU said:
The big differences are with package management (base+packages, Linux mixes the two concepts - there is no real "core" distribution), initialization scripts and the lack of GNU tools (this is a good thing) installed in the base system.

If you used FreeBSD you can figure out Linux. If you're used to Linux it is a bit of a learning curve coming the other way, but insurmountable.

Presumably you meant "surmountable". As someone who has tried a couple of times to go the Linux -> FreeBSD route, I have to say the project makes that pretty hard. Firstly it's a nightmare getting Broadcom wifi to work on FreeBSD, when you get past that the usual features like Keepass(x) and Dropbox (essential features of a desktop session) just won't work. Keepassx has no package and the port compile stops with a fatal error after 40 min or so (and needs qt-elsewhere or whatever it's called - 200MB), Dropbox won't work at all because the notification feature just isn't supported in BSD. So not worth the hassle.

No doubt someone will be along shortly to berate me for not jumping into the source code to fix all these things myself, but why when in many Linux distros all that 'just works'?
 
mechanic,

What problems do you face with Broadcom wifi setup?

Regarding Qt. I think that's a genuine problem. May be port maintainers should try to split and repackage the source tarball.

By the way, add the Qt libraries as package instead of going the whole download and build route.
 
mechanic said:
Presumably you meant "surmountable".

Uh yeah. Typo... I actually missed the word "not". It should have read "not insurmountable".

Wifi is a bit of a pain on both operating systems.
 
mechanic: inotify is a linux only thing. FreeBSD's kqueue was done BEFORE linux's inotify.

That is similar in fashion to complain that DirectX doesnt work on linux.

Sure, there is a compatibility layer available: wine. Just as there is a compatibility layer of libevent and libevent2. Just because the application you are using stupidly only supports linux, instead of using libevent(2) which supports *BSD, Linux, Solaris.... Doesn't mean the OS is at fault. It means the application developer is a moron for writing non-portable code.
 
Thanks for the responses:

Broadcom wifi: the many varieties of chip and driver each needing slightly different firmware is the main headache, although even when that's sorted I found the whole System locked up solidly on me when using XFCE network manager to set the network details (that was using PC-BSD but basically it's the FreeBSD system that does the networking), and that deleted some open files which didn't help.

Dropbox: no point in insulting the developers we have to work with whatever they produce. I've used it under Wine and the trouble is that although one can download all the Dropbox contents the regular updating when the contents change doesn't work, again because of the notify thing.

Keepassx, I noticed later on that there was a PBI (PC-BSD) for this but certainly the port failed to complete an install with some compiler error or other. I'm not going to waste another hour of my life running all that again for more detail, sorry.

The earlier post in the thread was about moving from Linux to BSD and I was simply explaining that BSD doesn't make it easy, in most Linux distros all the above 'just work'.
 
ephemera said:
I do have to reboot for playing games :) But for everything else Vmware is perfect for me. I have been dual booting since the time i started using fbsd (4.8 i think) but for me rebooting is not a practical option anymore. Besides, it's not just Windows i also have Solaris installed to try out some things from time to time.
If Vmware made a fbsd version that would be just fanstastic but i can only wish. I heard VirtualBox is being ported to fbsd, we will have to wait and see how that turns out.

I talked to a representative about FreeBSD support. This is his reply.

Greetings,
Thank you for your interest in VMware. As an open source project, not every version of the FreeBSD OS is tested with VMware. However, we do support the current version (FreeBSD 9.0) as a guest OS of ESXi/vSphere 5.1 and Fusion 5.


Regards,

Clayton Threadgill

VMware Pre-sales Support
cthreadgill@vmware.com
3900 N. Capital of Texas Highway
Austin, TX 78746
Direct: (512)681-5826
Office: (877)486-9273 ext 27053
 
mechanic said:
Thanks for the responses:

Broadcom wifi: the many varieties of chip and driver each needing slightly different firmware is the main headache, although even when that's sorted I found the whole System locked up solidly on me when using XFCE network manager to set the network details (that was using PC-BSD but basically it's the FreeBSD system that does the networking), and that deleted some open files which didn't help.

Dropbox: no point in insulting the developers we have to work with whatever they produce. I've used it under Wine and the trouble is that although one can download all the Dropbox contents the regular updating when the contents change doesn't work, again because of the notify thing.

Keepassx, I noticed later on that there was a PBI (PC-BSD) for this but certainly the port failed to complete an install with some compiler error or other. I'm not going to waste another hour of my life running all that again for more detail, sorry.

The earlier post in the thread was about moving from Linux to BSD and I was simply explaining that BSD doesn't make it easy, in most Linux distros all the above 'just work'.

  • Broadcom WiFi
    The device comes with relevant firmware in the OEM Win* installation. I've successfully taken Windows firmware and placed it in the specified location, to be used by a custom firmware 'loader' script hooking into an existing kernel module, to get my built-in WWAN device to work.
    Perhaps you could do the same? Maybe someone else has made a workaround?​
  • DropBox
    We use GitHub.​
  • Keepasx
    Why use a PBI when the application is in the ports tree?​
    Code:
    % whereis keepassx
    keepassx: /usr/ports/security/keepassx
 
There are differences, but you have to look beyond the outer appearance. I used to say the same thing until I actually starting playing with FreeBSD (after using Linux for 3 years). The differences were obvious to me immediately.
 
A specific wifi device not working is not a valid reason to reject an OS.
If the same hardware didn't work on OSX or Windows, you would just replace it with a working one. Do the same on FreeBSD and get another.
Sure, it is annoying when hardware doesn't work but replacing it is a very easy solution.

As for DropBox, the fact that it doesn't work on FreeBSD is a perfect excuse for me not to have to install it and instead get people who are sending files to me to either use svn, ftp or email rather than some ridiculous, proprietary, commercial crapware.
 
kpedersen said:
instead get people who are sending files to me to either use svn, ftp or email rather than some ridiculous, proprietary, commercial crapware.
Fair enough, but not everybody has that choice. For example, I have done some project work in aerodynamics with aeronautical engineers. The whole team (besides me, of course) preferred DropBox (some even suggested Google Docs, but fortunately that idea fell through right away) and they were not going to change just because I happened to be running a "vague" operating system they'd never even heard of (some had (very) basic experience with Linux but no more than that). So I had to improvise and just use DropBox' Web interface, which meant I couldn't sync directories but at least I could up- and download our stuff. It was far from ideal, but it had to do.
 
On the wireless device: People throw away and sell laptops that aren't working. Cannibalize the parts because you may find a wireless card that does work.

There are some similarities when it comes to basic structure. The further into the system one peers, the less that the two are alike.
 
sossego said:
On the wireless device: People throw away and sell laptops that aren't working. Cannibalize the parts because you may find a wireless card that does work.
On the other hand, especially when it comes to laptops boards are often integrated. With a PC one might be able to just swap one card for another, but with laptops such isn't always feasible.
 
Not true.

One can flip the laptop over, remove the panel, and remove the card. I do this with all of my laptops.
Some cards will only work with some systems- the AirPort card seems only to work with Powerbooks and iBooks right now.

One can even exchange/interchange/swap hard drives and optical drives if the physical port- female- can attach to the plug- male.

If the ribbon can be switched over or the plug itself, one can interchange the screen between machines.
 
Every notebook I've ever opened has the wireless chipset on a separate card. The desirable Atheros cards are relatively rare. Beware that some manufacturers including Lenovo and HP prevent non-approved cards from working in their machines.
 
I haven't the chance to take apart a netbook or reader as of yet....
At least one that was working.


Off topic but on subject: Cell/Mobile/Smart phones are the same way. You can actually interchange parts if the physical connections are the same.
 
sossego said:
One can flip the laptop over, remove the panel, and remove the card.
If it's a separate card, yes of course. But most laptops (and especially netbooks) I've seen have one main board that integrates everything. NIC, sound card, video card, etc. all in one board. There's no switching around then unless you care to replace the whole darn thing.
 
Wireless is not integrated. Possibly they can't integrate it due to different regulations in different countries. The notebooks or netbooks I have worked on with removable wireless includes Acer (and Gateway, which are made by Acer), Dell, Toshiba, Thinkpad, HP, and even a couple of Apple notebooks.
 
I think that we- fonz and I- are talking about two separate subjects. He is talking about the ethernet NIC connection and I about the wireless. If that is it, then yes, replacing that port takes some skill. The way around it is to have a usb ethernet adapter in the event the NIC craps out- gets loose.
 
The biggest difference for me is the fact that FreeBSD actually works as intended for me most of the time, and when it doesn't, there is actually a man page or some documentation there to help you.

I'm not flaming Linux here, I'm just stating my opinion that BSD is much easier to troubleshoot. Sometimes I feel that with Linux you have multiple problems with only one solution, where with BSD you have only one problem with multiple solutions. Of course this has exceptions, as nobody uses their computer the exact same way.

I like the fact that BSD is designed in such a way that a user has multiple ways to solve the same problem.
 
Back
Top