we should support opera

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Carpetsmoker

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Let feed this troll!


Now I'll look how can I manage cookies and block adds.... if Opera can do that, and some more features that I use on Firefox

Opera can do both. Without the need for silly QA-less extensions.

seams opera use at least 2-3x less CPU, that Firefox

I've never measured it, but over the years I've used both Opera and Firefox on low-CPU systems, and found Opera performance to be *far* superior, even with the new "speed-improved" firefox 3.

Two examples:
I recently have been using a mix of Firefox and Opera on my OpenBSD system, I did this because I wanted to switch to firefox (Opera has issues on OpenBSD due to linux emulation), this is on my laptop with pretty aggressive CPU throttling enabled (Meaning my T8300 is running at 800Mhz almost all of the time).

Opera is noticeably faster, especially after I had to install a number of extensions for firefox (Mostly stuff that is included by default on Opera).

Second example is my workstation at work, which is a Celeron 1.7GHz Windows XP machine, Opera is much faster on this machine. I used firefox in the past because our intranet doesn't work with Opera. I finally managed to hack together a custom UserCSS to get it working with Opera. (Can firefox do this btw?)?

I never look at memory usage and all that nonsense, it's the user experience that counts, how much memory the app uses is of little interest of me.

I've been using both Opera and firefox for many years. I started out with firefox back when it was still called firebird, and with Opera back when you had the advertisement.

I would like to use a free software browser, but at the same time the free webbrowser applications (including firefox) simply do not work for me for a number of reasons ... Opera is a much better application on every single issue I can think of at this point ... Except of course that it isn't free software.
It's not so much that Opera is the best webbrowser out there, just the one that sucks the least ...

Its one of the best browsers (Firefox may be only considered because of extensions, without extensions, Opera is the best).

It is a common misunderstanding that Opera does not support extensions, it does, you can use UserJS (Same as Greasemonkey), add custom menu items, buttons, etc.

Here's my current Opera setup btw, how many extensions do I need to get the same effect with firefox? Remember, every extensions is a piece of code without QA, which slows the application down, is something you need to search for (And possibly compare to other similar extensions), need to update, etc.
http://www.rwxrwxrwx.net/desktop.png
 

crsd

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So this thread finally turned to opera vs firefox only BS.
 

respite

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I really like opera. I was using it regularly for the past few years, but ive abandoned it for firefox full time. I now do a lot of mobile computing which requires the use of ssh tunnels. Opera does not support SOCKS.
 

graudeejs

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Penel

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I use Opera on my Blackberrys only to download large email attachments and files, > 4MB.

However, Firefox is my full time web browser on my desktop/workstations as here in Canada, the CRA(Canadian Revenue Agency) and Government of Canada websites only support IE, Firefox, and Safari.

I frequently need access to my Government service accounts so I am binded to Firefox.
 

morbit

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Oh, and talking about "pure-speed-chrome-style", you should really check 10.5 pre-alpha.

http://snapshot.opera.com/unix/labs-6177/

(untar, run ./opera)

Mind you, this is more of a technology preview than beta.
(e.g. font rendering is less than ideal)

(+ 10.5 will use whichever lib you have (QT, GTK or pure X) so there will be no dependency bloat. At the moment it defaults to GTK).

Side note- SRWare Iron is stripped version of Chrome (lack of user tracking), also there is ongoing effort to port Chromium to FreeBSD. I would personally try Uzbl, but it have too many dependencies for my liking (If I reckon correctly, something really wants DBUS).

*To be frank, dependencies are WebKit fault.
 

vermaden

Son of Beastie

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@morbit

At current state newest Opera snapshot does not even respect my ~/.fonts.conf font renderring settings, so no go here.

I am 100% happy with current stable Opera 10.
 

tobii

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I've been a Firefox user for some years now, the number of Addons I was using has been growing so has the CPU and Memory consumption.
Think it was when I saw Firefox using like 1.5 GB of Ram I tried out several other Browsers including Webkit based and also Opera but I dont like Closed Source.
Then I discovered Projects like surf (http://surf.suckless.org) and then finally uzbl (http://uzbl.org), quite liked the Idea that it puts me in Charge of what to do when I want to download something or how it handles bookmarks and whatnot.
Just check out those Projects if you havent and don't really need buttons, menus and so on.
 

morbit

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vermaden said:
@morbit

At current state newest Opera snapshot does not even respect my ~/.fonts.conf font renderring settings, so no go here.

I am 100% happy with current stable Opera 10.

Sure, but look at Peacekeeper, V8, Sunspider (Dromaeo?) numbers pushed :D
It's showcase for a new (Carakan) JS engine.
 

Beastie

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morbit said:
10.5 will use whichever lib you have (QT, GTK or pure X) so there will be no dependency bloat. At the moment it defaults to GTK
Yes, this is a very good news.


This means that you can run Opera without any graphical toolkit installed if you want to (plain X11), but if you do have toolkits installed, Opera will try to load and use them to integrate into the environment. Currently we are focusing on getting support for Gnome/GTK+ and KDE4/Qt4 into 10.5. The work on KDE4 integration is not at a stage yet where we think it can be used, so this pre-alpha release only has support for GTK. As a work in progress, you will notice that not all UI elements conform to their GTK specifications yet.
(source)


Opera is not built with GTK, not now and not in the future. It uses its own toolkit (Quick). In Peregrine on Linux, that toolkit draws using Qt (but doesn't use it for a lot of other things); In Evenes, it only uses X11 drawing primitives.

However, if it's available, Evenes will load GTK and paint widget elements with it. Of course that doesn't make it a GTK application, and it still has to live within the rules of our toolkit. This is similar to how for example Firefox, OpenOffice and the Qt GTK skin engine work. Similarly, on Mac and Windows, we use their native toolkits to paint quick's widget elements.

Also to highlight one other key point, we are also working on KDE integration but we don't yet have a public build nor screen shots that we are happy to share yet. However, the idea is that if you run under KDE, the KDE native look will load, if you run it under other environments and the GTK libraries are available they will load and if neither GTK or Qt/KDE libraries are available Opera will still run using only its own toolkit. Hence there is no dependency on either GTK or Qt/KDE.
(source, check screenshots)
 

chalbersma

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vermaden said:
@morbit

At current state newest Opera snapshot does not even respect my ~/.fonts.conf font renderring settings, so no go here.

I am 100% happy with current stable Opera 10.

Well it is a Pre-Alpha. So behavior like that is expected.
 

trev

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darkshadow said:
by the way chrome will take over firefox , and firefox will end up like netscape and then we will big google to give us the source or even binarie which running on freebsd , recored that for me and we will meet after 3 year and we will see who is right I bet on that http://coolwebdeveloper.com/2009/03/is-firefox-dying-a-slow-death/

You're already wrong about the demise of Netscape... I moved from Mosaic to Netscape Communicator until it no longer loaded web pages, and then I moved to its successor using the same source code which was the Mozilla Suite, and now I'm using the SeaMonkey Suite which is the latest incarnation of the Netscape Communicator source code.

So, Netscape Communicator (web/email/news/HTML composer/etc) still lives!
 

dennylin93

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I've been using Firefox ever since 1.0 came out, and I tried out Opera a while ago.

Opera definitely uses less resources than Firefox, so it's suitable for computers that aren't as powerful. The performance of Firefox has improved lately, but it still uses more resources than Opera. Using renice usually solves my problems though.

I don't really like the text in Opera. Chinese characters aren't rendered well. Not sure if this is because of my settings though.

Opera also requires QT at the moment which is a bit annoying since I don't have any KDE apps installed. Good to hear that this will be fixed in 10.5.

Another advantage Firefox has over Opera is the number of plugins that are available.
 

Beastie

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dennylin93 said:
Opera also requires QT at the moment which is a bit annoying since I don't have any KDE apps installed. Good to hear that this will be fixed in 10.5.
It uses Qt3, and most KDE applications use Qt4, don't they?
The few graphical applications I use are mostly GTK+-based and opera is the only Qt3-based one. But it will be even better with 10.5. Hopefully I'll be able to make it work with GTK+.

dennylin93 said:
Another advantage Firefox has over Opera is the number of plugins that are available.
What kind of plugins? I've never needed to extend Opera. Everything I'd need as an extension in Firefox is already there in Opera.
 

inurneck

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Why as humans do we have to be so competitive by design? It's so foolish. Whats's wrong with the fact that maybe firefox works best for nick yet opera is best liked by mike? Your all gonna hit each other back and forth until the thread just goes away, and it will. No one is going to win here because there is no prize. In the end your all going to use what you want to use because you all have a thousand valid reasons why "x" is best for you.

I use opera on My windows box, as well as FreeBSD and I use Safari on my MAC. The day safari is available on FreeBSD I might just can opera all together, or I might use both. I haven't had to extend opera, it came with everything I needed. A stable browser that didn't crash. I don't need to see any of the code, I am too busy looking at forums.freebsd.org or whatever. Someone else might want to SEE the code and respect that "x" let's you.

Anyway, I began using it opera on windows boxes because I hated IE with a passion, and seen it could be installed on UNIX and was souped so I installed it. Firefox wasn't in the equation for me because from my personal experience it was buggy and crashed all the time. It reminded me of netscape navigator back in the day. It was like trying to run a JAVA app on windows NT. Some people mentioned a mailer program on opera, I must say this surprised me. Ive installed opera repeatedly on two laptops and three towers over the course now of a few years and I have never seen any mailer program. I am not sure what that's about.

But at the end of the day we are all going to use what we want to use because from our own personal experiences it worked best for us, and we are all going to have valid good reasons for doing so. Our own reasons. Why make it competitive. Few things get under my skin more than a "fanboy" who happens to like "x", pushes it on everyone and has a hundred reasons (his own.) to bash everyone else's choice. The people I am talking about here are very general, love name brands, have to have the best of the best, are materialistic and what they don't realize is they are the people that feed and make conglomerate corporations want to view, analyze, and exploit everything you do, see, and touch, including your web browsing so they can sell. sell. sell.

I like sony products because I have had nothing but good experiences. If I had to go buy a monitor right now i'd probably look there first. I'd offer my opinion on it given the first chance. But you wouldn't see me here talking about what a shitty company panasonic is. Come on, get your heads out of the sand. Much like I am trying to explain here about personal choices, the same goes for opinions. So please take what I say with a grain of salt. It's not directed at anyone here. I'm just trying to open your eyes. No product is better then another ESPECIALLY when your talking about computers. PC should stand for personal choice. It's simply what works best for you, and your experiences with it. I will say getting flash working right with opera on freebsd was a lot harder than it needed to be, but I am a patient man.
 

Beastie

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inurneck said:
Your all gonna hit each other back and forth until the thread just goes away, and it will.
You're misinterpreting things here. Few of us are saying one browser is better than the other. "Religious" wars are pointless and most of us know it.
 

inurneck

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Beastie said:
You're misinterpreting things here. Few of us are saying one browser is better than the other. "Religious" wars are pointless and most of us know it.

If your one of the people that know it's pointless (and I know you are.) than my post wasn't directed at you. I haven't misinterpreted anything and I am looking at six pages of posts that prove that. But like I said, i am not pointing at anyone, and not going to quote them out now. Just trying to get that few as you call them, to open their eyes.
 
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