D

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Any Unix-like OS could serve as a base for Unix based development tools (they were designed for Unix in the first hand, they could have been ported to Windows but the ported version sucks), e.g: git, svn and definitely docker. Docker is the killer feature. FreeBSD jail could be think as an equivalent. But the most important is, nowadays when we said Unix-like we mean Linux. These people will run Linux anyway if WSL is not available. WSL is just to keep them working on Windows but could use Linux based tools. Just that.
 

ekvz

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Any Unix-like OS could serve as a base for Unix based development tools (they were designed for Unix in the first hand, they could have been ported to Windows but the ported version sucks), e.g: git, svn and definitely docker.

Porting stuff like git or svn to windows is more or less a noop (there is not much a generic CLI application would do that won't easily compile on windows - outside of forking of course). The problem is more with running on an OS that's not designed for any kind of CLI usage with can't really be attributed to said ports but rather to Windows being, well, ... Windows.

Docker is a way different beast though. It's deeply tied to the Linux kernel and nothing but the Linux kernel. That's pretty much the reason it hasn't been ported anywhere. Contrary to the situation on Windows that's nothing to worry about for most serious systems though. In the end Docker is really just a lot of hype with little technical reason behind it to get overly excited. I am not very deep into FreeBSDs jail functionality yet but i am pretty sure that (given the right tools being developed) it can easily replicate docker if not straight up surpass it.

You and shkhln have a point though about WSL being invented to keep people on Windows but it's existence also serves to promote Linux as in admitting to the fact that Windows is incapable in certain aspects and needs to rely on Linux to avoid the consequences. That gets a picture into peoples minds which is quite favorable to Linux.
 

shkhln

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admitting to the fact that Windows is incapable in certain aspects

Windows is perfectly capable, it's just not a primary target for, say, tools developed by Google such as Go or Kubernetes.
 

ekvz

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Windows is perfectly capable, it's just not a primary target for, say, tools developed by Google such as Go or Kubernetes.

Well, i guess i'll have to take your word on this as i can't be bothered to dig through the abomination called Windows API to see what it supports or doesn't supports. I'd still argue that building something like Docker based on Windows would end in a disaster though even IF the kernel supports the needed functionality. Just imagine a Windows container... Like trimming down Windows to the essential functionality is going to work out even semi OKish. I envision some multi GB abomination where noone really knows what's actually in there and that's nothing but a bad joke when it comes to overhead compared to existing solutions.

You are probably right in that it would be theoretically possible but there is very much a reason why Windows isn't a target of such tools. It simply doesn't make much sense.
 

shkhln

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You are probably right in that it would be theoretically possible but there is very much a reason why Windows isn't a target of such tools. It simply doesn't make much sense.

I believe it's mostly lock-in avoidance. Windows development is entirely driven by MS needs. In contrast Linux is free (as in no licensing costs), comes with source code and compatibility with commercial Unixes (not really important now, but it was critical for adoption). Also, the Linux kernel development culture potentially allows large corporations to hijack architectural control over entire kernel subsystems (this would be more difficult with FreeBSD).
 

kpedersen

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Porting stuff like git or svn to windows is more or less a noop

It could be due to the sloppy nature of Linux technologies but I notice that Git for Windows (https://gitforwindows.org/) drags in an entire POSIX compatibility layer Msys2 (based on Cygwin) just to run. This is a little crap!

Windows is non-standard as far as POSIX is concerned but Linux technology really does tend to be a sprawling mess. It obviously isn't a technical reason for this; more of a culture I feel. I wonder if the GoT guys will end up with something a little more portable (http://gameoftrees.org/).

I suppose you can summarize it as (as diplomatically as possible):
  • The UNIX philosophy is do one thing and do it well
  • The Windows philosophy is have one massive program that does as much as possible
  • The Linux philosophy is have many things glued working together that do one thing
Whilst I would still take the Linux approach over the WIndows one in terms of scalability, it isn't ideal.
 

ekvz

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It could be due to the sloppy nature of Linux technologies but I notice that Git for Windows (https://gitforwindows.org/) drags in an entire POSIX compatibility layer Msys2 (based on Cygwin) just to run. This is a little crap!

Ouch, it does? That is a bit more than a little crap admittedly. I would be very curious as to why this is needed.

Windows is non-standard as far as POSIX is concerned but Linux technology really does tend to be a sprawling mess.

That's quite true. At some point Windows non conformity (at least on the lower levels) might even be considered marginal compared to the amount software out there containing Linux specific code blocking portability.
 
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vigole

vigole

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Docker is the killer feature. FreeBSD jail could be think as an equivalent
Please don't drag down this thread to Docker. It had its own thread. If that's not enough, open a new thread, one of your classic one. Thank you.
 
D

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Please don't drag down this thread to Docker. It had its own thread. If that's not enough, open a new thread, one of your classic one. Thank you.
It's you that interpret it that way. I only mention Docker to back my claim up.
 
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vigole

vigole

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It's you that interpret it that way. I only mention Docker to back my claim up.
Fair enough, I'll shut up, lets see how far it goes, before it get shut down by Moderator. But I think Lilith has already finished off this thread with the Kiss of Death.
 
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