Trying to use FreeBSD but having difficulties

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Tas Papadopoulos

I'm really trying to use FreeBSD. I came from OpenSuSE, but I just can't work around system.
The problem I have with FreeBSD is that there is no native management tool to help setting it up. In OpenSuSE, I've gotten used, (spoiled maybe) to YAST. It has both a textual interface and a GUI interface. Other Unix variants, like HP-UX have SAM, AIX has SMIT, etc.

Why not FreeBSD? Actually why not use YAST? It has been recently re-written in Ruby I believe, and it is pretty solid. It is also Open Source, albeit under a different license. Maybe call it YAFT or YABT?

I have tried using Webmin, but the problem with Webmin is that there aren't FreeBSD specific modules, that I can find, such as for ZFS, etc. It also does not have a textual interface, it is totally Web based.
 
You might find PC-BSD more suitable if you are looking for graphical tools for package management. It is FreeBSD under the hood with some additional bells and whistles.
 
FreeBSD is bare bones out of the box as it's got to work from embedded platforms to high end systems. You're not going to see a fully featured tool written in Ruby, Python, and so forth included in the base system. It's great if you want to start lightweight and add building blocks from there but a challenge if you want everything done for you.

What we do have out of the box is the simple shell based bsdconfig(8) tool. It's a simple TUI to handle some system configuration.

If you are looking for something more fully featured and desktop focused, you may want to look at is the pc-controlpanel tool from sysutils/pcbsd-utils-qt5. PCBSD has a bunch of the common desktop stuff all under one place in that port and it should only be a cd /usr/ports/sysutils/pcbsd-meta-qt5; make install or pkg install pcbsd-utils-qt5 away on a FreeBSD system. If that's still a bit much, as mentioned above by gofer_touch, PCBSD comes out of the box with that installed and more of the simple desktop stuff done for you.
 
And that is what the FreeBSD Handbook suggests:
Chapter 2. Installing FreeBSD 9.X and Later
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/bsdinstall.html#bsdinstall-synopsis said:
Users who prefer to install FreeBSD using a graphical installer may be interested in pc-sysinstall, the installer used by the PC-BSD Project. It can be used to install either a graphical desktop (PC-BSD) or a command line version of FreeBSD. Refer to the PC-BSD Users Handbook for details (http://wiki.pcbsd.org/index.php/PC-BSD®_Users_Handbook/10.1).
Click to expand...
 
Hi Tas Papadopoulos.

I know YAST and I agree that it is easy but so is FreeBSD. Personally I have learned to like the shell and it is my arrogant opinion that it is a lot easier then point-and-click.

I can highly recommend the Handbook http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ as a resource for configuring FreeBSD.

There are some good books about FreeBSD - search your favourite book store.

Last but not least - maybe you should try see if PC-BSD or GhostBSD is right for you, they have preconfigured window managers and much more as default.

Hope you are having a nice BSD weekend :-)

Best regards
Stig
 
Tas Papadopoulos said:
Actually why not use YAST?
Click to expand...
Because if I need YAST and OpenSUSE/SUSE I am going to use OpenSUSE/SUSE not FreeBSD. I happen to have a need for FreeBSD (ZFS and Jails) and I could care less for YAST and what OpenSUSE is doing. As simple as that. If you can't read the documentation and use the shell you have no business running BSDs.

BTW OpenSUSE used to be moderately popular desktop distro used by many math departments in U.S. after the demise of Solaris to run their laboratory desktops. Nowadays it is all OS X and Ubuntu.
 
Tas Papadopoulos said:
I'm really trying to use FreeBSD. I came from OpenSuSE, but I just can't work around system.
The problem I have with FreeBSD is that there is no native management tool to help setting it up.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. What specifically is it that you want to set up? I don't know Yast, but have used apt-get a lot and from a beginners point of view, it's just like the FreeBSD pkg command. In fact I'm currently switching between FreeBSD and Debian using an SSH connection and I hardly notice the difference in most cases.

In FreeBSD you use either the ports or pkg. To use the ports you go to the relevant directory under /usr/ports/ and type make install clean. That's pretty simple. The new pkg system is even simpler. Type pkg install. The handbook is very clear on the details and basic usage is not hard.

I used to use only ports and that works fine. Now I'm using only pkg and that works fine too. The problem I had when I started FreeBSD is that unlike the Linux GUI based package management, one has to know what programs are available. That's actually easy by using Google. You can look at people's suggestions or go to FRESH ports.

I've found that in most cases I can just type something like "FreeBSD my desires" into Google and in no time I have a cut/paste solution. That's actually quite close to clicking around in a GUI.
 
OJ said:
I don't know Yast, but have used apt-get a lot and from a beginners point of view, it's just like the FreeBSD pkg command.
Click to expand...
YaST (Yet another Setup Tool) is more than a package manager. It is a Linux operating system setup and configuration tool used by OpenSUSE/SUSE. It is really good actually. It is more comparable to Windows control panel than to things like KDE system manager for hardware, software, and workspaces used by PC-BSD. OpenSUSE/SUSE used to be really nice well polished proprietary Linux distro. Think of European Red Hat.
 
Well thank you everyone for your replies. However, I take affront when someone says it is what it is and you should just use it the way it is. Let's review:

  • I like FreeBSD and want to see it in wider use (unfortunately it is loosing base)
  • I didn't ask for a GUI; I asked for a text form based tool, like all other Unici have; If pcBSD takes it and converts the tool to the GUI, better yet, just like YAST a text form and and GUI version that work the same exact way
  • Please don't tell me about the documentation; the documentation is so old I can smell the dust when I open it from my computer
  • Individual package documentation doesn't help either; dependencies can only do so much
  • I am not refering to pkg, I love pkg; Oko you are correct
  • I am also not talking about shells; I have been using Unix shells going back to 1980; I can still learn, but I can probably teach you a few tricks
  • Beastie7, if you want to just play around, go ahead, tcsh, tmux and the handbook; but if you really need to setup FreeBSD based working systems the docs and wiki are way behind; I'm willing to write, but I can't find information

Let me just give you a 'for instance':

  • Many work systems are going Active Directory for authentication; I'm not asking for a discussion here, that's how things are, period.
  • Microsoft has deprecated NTLM, meaning you must use Kerb AD.
  • Try setting up a Kerb AD FreeBSD box; it will not work, I see what it does, but suffice it to say it needs work
  • And I can't find any docs on:
    • how to mount a Kerb AD authenticated share on FreeBSD
    • Or on how to setup a FreeBSD instance as an Active Directory server with Dynamic DNS and DHCP;
Let me give you a second for instance;

  • Most devops use VMWare Workstation; Like it or not VMWare is the largest client (on-prem/private) Hypervisor, ergo VMWare Workstation
  • Been using it it before the Open Source tools became available and it it solid; not bad for $100 bucks a year
  • Try searching on VMware tools in the FreeBSD wiki; I am directed to other hypervisors, but no docs on VMW.

For BSD to move forward, we must all get our heads out of the sand; that is all I am saying. I have just spent two months trying to get pcBSD running right, only to find out the issues appear not to be with pcBSD but with the FreeBSD base. So I've just spent another three weeks working on FreeBSD, trying to get a working server and desktop under VMW.
I found that VMware includes FreeBSD 10.1 client tools on VMW 11.x. But trying to load Mate and Gnome 3x on FreeBSD is an excercise in frustration. One wiki post walks me through manually installing fonts and configuring them. Another is cleaner, but GDM doesn't work.

Anybody want to know why GDM doesn't work? I'll tell you, because the GNOME Shell is not in the pkg dependencies for gnome-desktop.

But then when it finally comes up, I can't resize the screen; xrandr does not work, even if it doesn't through any errors.

I won't go on, I think you guys (and gals) get the idea.

So if you don't want FreeBSD to grow, fine. Tell me and I'll stop trying to use it. I can always go back to Linux, which has the lion's share of the market, and systemd.

You can find my rants and maybe some hints at:
podium.70tas.us
 
I don't understand, you jumped from lack of a graphical configuration tool, to LDAP authentication services (which has nothing to do with FreeBSD) for Windows clients, to hypervisors, to GNOME install issues. Then declare FreeBSD is "behind"? wut

It sounds like you want Windows Server, for Windows clients. So just use Windows. Have you even bothered to look up Samba?
 
In the meantime, @Tas Papadopoulos you might want to read about Netflix's many uses for FreeBSD and their papers on optimization and how they use FreeBSD to serve all video over the internet, accounting for around 50% of all internet traffic. They switched to FreeBSD just a few years ago. WhatsApp also uses FreeBSD and they have a lot of published papers, too. Along with Juniper, someone somewhere said FreeBSD actually serves around 80% of all internet traffic but I don't know about that.

As far as what Microsoft does, that's a different operating system. I don't understand why what they do has an affect with how FreeBSD does things. Unless you're saying Microsoft makes changes based on what FreeBSD. Now that I would understand.

My little web dev company started with FreeBSD 10 years ago and haven't had any problems and most of our issues are solved using the Handbook and other docs. Perhaps you could read Netflix's papers and pick up on some tips. They don't seem to have any issues either. Sorry you can't seem to figure it out.
 
No offense, but why did you leave Linux? Perhaps it was because you're not happy with it now that you've gotten your way?
 
FreeBSD, in my completely personal opinion, worries less about wider acceptance (not that it doesn't want that, but it's not a primary goal) than several Linux distributions. In my less than humble opinion, this has some good results--many Linux distributions worry about the newcomer--but wait--said newcomer is using Windows and Mac as they always have. Meanwhile, suddenly, in Fedora, there will be several things aimed at said newcomer who continues to ignore it, aggravating many who have used Fedora, because suddenly, to do something very basic, it's been hidden behind some bloated, improperly working, graphic tool.

So, would we like it grow? Sure. Would we rather the developers, with limited resources, spent time on making some graphic interface for something rather than say, improving network performance? No.

So, not denying that growth would be a good thing, but considering the resources available, it's better off concentrating on what it's concentrating on now.
 
Sorry to say this, but no one appears to be reading what I am saying. Why are you guys so defensive?
To summarize, I am not asking for a GUI, or GUI tool, I suggested it may be hight time to add a real control panel as a terminal form.
The examples I gave are real problems that administrators are having integrating FreeBSD in a corporate environment, other than as a LAMP structure.
It is wonderful that Netflix uses FreeBSD, but that is a niche; FreeBSD must reach a broader horizon of users and applications.
And finally, about stability of features; I interviewd with Esskay IT a long time ago. I asked what their goals were in growing and altering their IT environment. Their answer was that they were a stable company, and did not need to change or expand. Where are they now? Does anyone still know of them?

BTW, is anyone here part of the team? If so, then I guess I can get lost. Else, I'll argue until I get my point across.
Aren't I a sh*thead?
 
Tas Papadopoulos said:
Those who make the decisions and can tell me to go down deep and hot... ;)
Click to expand...

There is no single team making decisions for FreeBSD but many small teams working on their own fields that happen coincide with their interests. You're mistaken if it has been your impression so far that there is some central "board" that has tabs on everything.
 
I think there is room for a terminal based config tool - like you descripe. I am sure that if you start programming that more like minded people will help you. You could start using your shell knowledge and make scripts for each single task and then joined all in one master program. You just have to start

Regards
 
I think there is room for discussion but I have the impression that similar threads pop up on a regular basis with the exact same arguments and the exact same conclusion.

I have no doubt about your competences and I read all your arguments. You may have special needs that FreeBSD cannot fullfil but it does not sound right to me to say that "we must all get our heads out of the sand" at least for the people who work hard on it.

What would be a change is someone coming here saying that he has some problems with FreeBSD as it is while presenting a beginning of a solution. Then, those threads about what could be done to improve FreeBSD could become something more that just another thread on a forum.
 
Tas Papadopoulos said:
I did not imply that. But it is obvious by this thread that there is no room for discussion of any kind. So, I know when I'm not wanted.
Click to expand...

If your idea of discussion is:

Tas Papadopoulos said:
  • Many work systems are going Active Directory for authentication; I'm not asking for a discussion here, that's how things are, period.
Click to expand...

Then you make yourself not wanted.

Most of the stuff that you have stated above (your for instances) are really ridiculous assumptions based on lack of any knowledge. Any person with a sufficient technical background like you claim you have, would have done some research first.

All I see is an egocentric troll. I highly doubt that you have ever seen any *nix system from an administrator's perspective.
 
As a pretty new user of FreeBSD, and not a UNIX admin, I have found the existing tools to be more than sufficient.

The configuration is very consistent, so you're often visiting only a handful of directories when setting things up. The commands are also consistent, simple, and logical. The default binary package manager (pkg) always provides helpful messages when installing packages, often even telling you exactly which file to create/modify and exactly what to put in it.

The man pages are coherent and relevant to the current version.

The responses were all pretty helpful until you declared that FreeBSD is losing its user base and that the handbook is "so old I can smell the dust when I open it from my computer."
 
Tas Papadopoulos said:
Sorry to say this, but no one appears to be reading what I am saying. Why are you guys so defensive?
Click to expand...

Because you waltzed in the door and declared the efforts of hundreds (thousands?) to be wasted, because they're not accommodating you. Nobody reacts well to that. You'd have been fine if you'd just admitted you don't know what you're doing and asked for help, instead of "innocently" wondering why FreeBSD doesn't have your favorite Linux tool.

Tas Papadopoulos said:
Aren't I a sh*thead?
Click to expand...

Well, you've supposedly been using Unix shells since before I was born, yet apparently can't do with it what I did in two hours. Without an automated tool, while following the (very up-to-date) documentation. So yes. Yes you are.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top