The Tragedy of Systemd

Trihexagonal

Son of Beastie

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I must have been substituting caffeine for sleep because I either misplaced a 500GB Travelstar HDD with Win10Pro I was playing Oblivion on or it's running FreeBSD 12 now. I have the game backed up and a 200GB Scorpio Black I can load Win7 on my W520 with a disk and it be recognized as valid install through the BIOS when I get around to it.

I won't be taking it online but when I set up Win10 spent a whole day looking for this .exe to do this and one to do that, locking it down before ever going anywhere but a MicroSoft site and still felt like I was vulnerable to exploit the whole time I was online. It was nerve wracking. 💊

Windows beats Wine but isn't good for anything but gaming as far as any use I may have for it.

I couldn't care less about SystemD as long as we don't use it.
 

Trihexagonal

Son of Beastie

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For the record: I'm using Win10 on a daily basis and I actually enjoy it. For servers I fully rely on FreeBSD which I also enjoy working with.

One of the better things I found when trying to lock down Win10 was Glasswire for GUI network monitoring. It will start at boot and tell you the first time an app accesses the net and other useful information of that type IMO.

It claims to be a firewall but I wouldn't trust it over the resident Windows firewall or considered it as such, but the price is right.


P.T Barnum must be rolling over in his grave at the depths I've sunk in promoting Windows...
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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One of the better things I found when trying to lock down Win10 was Glasswire for GUI network monitoring. It will start at boot and tell you the first time an app accesses the net and other useful information of that type IMO.

It claims to be a firewall but I wouldn't trust it over the resident Windows firewall or considered it as such, but the price is right.


P.T Barnum must be rolling over in his grave at the depths I've sunk in promoting Windows...
Using Win10, come on! ;)
 

Trihexagonal

Son of Beastie

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Using Win10, come on!

I plead Not Guilty to the astonishing allegation against me as a Daemon in relatively good standing and acrimoniously act as my own attorney in this slanderous slam on my stature, sensibilities, style, spirit and skill, Sir Spartrekus.

At the grace of the court, at this time I'd like to submit my previous statement into evidence as Exibit #1 and reserve the right to submit a screenshot to the appropriate thread, if the court so allows:

I must have been substituting caffeine for sleep because I either misplaced a 500GB Travelstar HDD with Win10Pro I was playing Oblivion on or it's running FreeBSD 12 now.
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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I plead Not Guilty to the astonishing allegation against me as a Daemon in relatively good standing and acrimoniously act as my own attorney in this slanderous slam on my stature, sensibilities, style, spirit and skill, Sir Spartrekus.

At the grace of the court, at this time I'd like to submit my previous statement into evidence as Exibit #1 and reserve the right to submit a screenshot to the appropriate thread, if the court so allows:

OK, Enjoy any OS you would like ;)

May the FreeBSD Force be with you, always, Sir Trihexagonal.
 

OJ

Daemon

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Everything is easy if you know how to do it, yet if you don't know then an environment such as Windows can do a whole lot for you.
In my experience it is rare to meet anybody who actually knows how to do much with computers other than run a few applications. Scripting is so far advanced that it might as well be brain surgery to the common user, and I don't think that anybody who even knows what that is makes up a measurable percentage of Windows users. Not in Western Canada where I live, anyway. I don't think the majority even install extra programs.

As for the Windows install, sure that's easy for you, but for me the multiple screens that one has to click through when a computer arrives fresh from the store with Windows on it requires some contemplation. This is what I was thinking about, the initialization of a machine as it arrives from the local store. Installing from a disk is only something that I've tried once, and it didn't work because it complained about product keys or something like that which is outside of my expertise - not that I couldn't learn if it was important enough - (un)fortunately it wasn't. :) The whole world of proprietary software and its DRM has it's own learning curve which I think is often ignored because it's not considered "technical". It is however a stumbling block if one doesn't know how it works.

In any case we are indeed drifting off topic. :) You and I don't need to argue about this anyway, since I do understand what you're saying. Also, the irony here is that I actually dropped Linux as my main OS to come to FreeBSD about 10 years ago, exactly because I felt Linux was moving in the Windows direction. :)
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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justinnoor

Active Member

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systemd reported as mem hog

This presentation does not focus on the minutia. The author is not trying to sell Systemd. He highlights the big picture, showing how Systemd is a reaction to the realities of our time, despite its imperfections. Today, a sysadmin is expected to implement cloud deployments, microservices, and devops pipelines. This fact has a huge impact on service and process management, and vastly changes the ways in which our systems connect with the rest of the world, both internally and externally.
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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This presentation does not focus on the minutia. The author is not trying to sell Systemd. He highlights the big picture, showing how Systemd is a reaction to the realities of our time, despite its imperfections. Today, a sysadmin is expected to implement cloud deployments, microservices, and devops pipelines. This fact has a huge impact on service and process management, and vastly changes the ways in which our systems connect with the rest of the world, both internally and externally.

Process management is made "easy" with systemd.

Luckily for the moment FreeBSD is systemd free...
If FreeBSD goes to Systemd, then, it is better to move to NetBSD.
 

linux->bsd

Active Member

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systemd is an abomination. The only ones not convinced of this are those that don't administer systemd systems. That's the disconnect between the glowing praise from the speaker and reality. Point-by-point I can direct you to documentation from systemd's own developers of how to fix what systemd breaks by preventing systemd from doing what it was designed to do. The theory behind systemd is great: make all of these different Linux systems adhere to a general standard, so that knowing how to administer one translates to being able to administer all the others. But systemd is garbage in practice, unable to meet up to the lofty goals it set for itself.

The biggest reason I left Linux is because of the low quality standards adopted by its community -- everyone is so desperate to get their new toy published and get praised for it that they don't bother putting in the effort to make a high-quality product. FreeBSD suffers much less from that. It is a well-throughout operating system, where development decisions just make logical sense (for the most part).

Yes, the BSDs could benefit from a well-designed and well-implemented type of "systemd" (the opposite of existing systemd), which is what the presenter was trying to convey, but he's clueless about systemd in the real world.
 
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justinnoor

Active Member

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Luckily for the moment FreeBSD is systemd free...

Once again, nobody in the presentation, or in this post, is advocating for Systemd. This presentation highlights the challenges that Systemd attempts to address, and how various communities have reacted to these challenges, including the BSDs. That’s the gist of this presentation.
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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You point clearly that BSD is not refuge. "BSD for refuge is a crap idea"
Yeah, because BSD will evolve too. If there is no evolution, it will simply no longer exist. Innovation is necessary for evolution.

A refuse to "change" is actually not positive. Because this world is moving in a given direction ; to refuse to move in its direction has something to do with anarchism.

Why to use still a terminal, when there are modern technologies?

Practically, there is no choice. Just to follow the technological evolution. Reality is a bit like this. You get up in the morning and have no choice. Indeed, in large companies, there is the standardization. Which means that your IT arrives in the morning to your office, - "hello", he gives you a Windows Win10 PC machine (+ a smartphone), same as your colleagues. There are necessary software's, which are recommended. If you need a specific software, call IT.
 

kpedersen

Son of Beastie

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For sure. The ultimate modern technology would be to just get someone else to do it. I don't even need to know what they did.

I used to think that and it was a little bit depressing but after a while I realised that either due to greed, bloat or skills shortage this "ultimate modern software product" will disappear and we will "regress" again back to using the good old classics following the KISS principles.

Just look at a simple organism like a tardigrade, it keeps on going in absurd environments due to its "relative" simplicity compared to us fleshy weak humans who can't even survive a couple of hundred degrees ;)

So something like Java will never survive against something like C because it is too complex, unportable and unmaintainable. Only a very few developers would know even where to start, just for the VM alone.

Likewise this all encompasing systemd will never win against a few shell scripts. All it takes is a slightly radical environment change (clustering?, quantum processors?, increased isolation / security) and so much will have to be rewritten in systemd so naturally everyone will revert back to simple ductape scripts. An example is that I could easily port a simple FreeBSD 12 startup script to FreeBSD 7 but I could not port a Debian 9 startup script to Debian 4. And it will go both ways. You wont be able to port a Debian 9 startup script to Debian 19 but you likely will be able to port a FreeBSD 12 script to FreeBSD 22 due to simplicty and lack of change.
 

Spartrekus

Daemon

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For sure. The ultimate modern technology would be to just get someone else to do it. I don't even need to know what they did.

It has something to do with knowledge access, how to do things. If an engineer learn not to be capable to use sockets or do file operations in C, Pascal, Assembler,... the better. Microsoft will help and get excellent free* software's ready for your activities. You cannot keep the terminal endlessly, you need to go for modern shining desktops and user interfaces, where there is lot of money. But, this is just for today.
 
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fryshke

Member

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I won't be taking it online but when I set up Win10 spent a whole day looking for this .exe to do this and one to do that, locking it down before ever going anywhere but a MicroSoft site and still felt like I was vulnerable to exploit the whole time I was online. It was nerve wracking. 💊

You have mental problems.
 

tommiie

Well-Known Member

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There is too much mud slinging and personal assaults on these forums :-(
 

fryshke

Member

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Please detail them for me, I'd be most interested in hearing your opinion on my mental state.

And, please, be brutally honest...
Youtube some videos of people who are paranoid or germophobes. Now look at yourself. Uncanny, eh?

Also, take a look at flat earthers and how false beliefs make them look.

I mean... dude... Millions if not billions of people use Windows daily and not everyone is h4xx0r3d, get a grip on yourself. Jesus...
 

Trihexagonal

Son of Beastie

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Youtube some videos of people who are paranoid or germophobes. Now look at yourself. Uncanny, eh?

Also, take a look at flat earthers and how false beliefs make them look.

I mean... dude... Millions if not billions of people use Windows daily and not everyone is h4xx0r3d, get a grip on yourself. Jesus...

You mean the Earth isn't flat?

But having a background in the mental health field I can appreciate your view.
 
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