Solved [SOLVED] SSD review setup request

dcbdbis · Feb 9, 2014

Good Afternoon,

I have read the wiki by wblock on SSD setup. It's easy to follow. However in my soon to be replaced OS, Arch Linux, I have deployed a further stragedy. Before I put FreeBSD over Arch....I am posting my fstab here for public review.
I hope it is self explanatory.

My SSD is a Samsung EVO 840 @ 1TB. It's expensive. I really don't want to stress it needlesly.

I am asking for individuals more experienced than me with FreeBSD to look at the concept shown below....and tell me if the strategy is OK, or if it comes with pitfalls in FreeBSD.

I know the fstab in FreeBSD is slightly different (I have setup a couple of FreeBSD servers so far)...The Linux fstab below best explains my SSD srite minimalization strategy.

In the wiki's I haven't seen folks put frequently written things like /var and <SWAP> onto rotating media. But that is a key part of my strategy on my linux box. I would add one entry not shown here....I would put /usr/ports on spinning media as well. This way the main SSD has really only to handle the non-volatile portions of FreeBSD and installed ports.

Before I install FreeBSD on my main workstation, and potentially smoke the SSD prematurely...... Can I get some feedback please?

Thank You!

Sincerely and respectfully,

Dave

Edit: I have done the best I can to have the fstab displayed as best as possible.

///---------fstab below----------------

Code:

# 
# /etc/fstab: static file system information
#
# <file system>									<dir>					<type>		<options>									<dump>	<pass>

# Make sure /tmp is in ram
tmpfs										         /tmp        			tmpfs   	nodev,nosuid								0 	0

# /dev/sda2, Windows - SSD
/dev/sda2									       /media/Windows			ntfs-3g		defaults,noauto,users						0	0

# /dev/sda5, boot - SSD
/dev/sda5      									/boot     				ext4    	rw,noatime,data=ordered,discard				0	2

# /dev/sda6, root - SSD
/dev/sda6     									/         				ext4    	rw,noatime,data=ordered,discard				0	1

# /dev/sdb1, Backup-1 - HDD
/dev/sdb1										/media/Backup-1			ext4		rw,noatime,users,exec,noauto,data=ordered	0	2

# /dev/sdc1, Backup-2 -HDD
/dev/sdc1										/media/Backup-2			ext4		rw,noatime,users,exec,noauto,data=ordered	0	2

# /dev/sdd1 - HDD
/dev/sdd1										/media/VMs-Misc			ext4		rw,users,noatime,data=ordered				0	2

# /dev/sdd2 , /var - HDD
/dev/sdd2       								/var      				ext4      	rw,noatime,data=ordered				       0	2

# /dev/sdd3, Swap - HDD
/dev/sdd3 										none 					swap 		defaults									0	0

# /dev/sr0, the dvd burner
/dev/sr0										/media/DVD				auto		defaults,noauto,users						0	0

# /dev/sr1, the BluRay reader
/dev/sr1										/media/BluRay			auto		defaults,noauto,users						0	0


# A ramdisk for general usage when compiling from Code::Blocks
# using rsync via scripts to populate when starting a coding session,
# and backup to SSD only when session is done
none											/home/dcbdbis/RamDisk	ramfs		defaults,users,exec							0	0

wblock@ · Feb 10, 2014

Re: SSD review setup request

Question the idea that special measures must be taken to reduce writes on SSDs. Online tests seem to agree that a decent SSD should be good for years of normal use, long past the time current models are obsolete.

Rather than worry about the flash wearing out, I'm more concerned about data safety. Two SSDs in a mirror is pretty expensive, but slower data replication works without that cost.. sysutils/rsnapshot works well for that.

dcbdbis · Feb 10, 2014

Re: SSD review setup request

With sincerest respect,

I am not comfortable in assuming it's ok. I've been around a while. Think ENIAC and 300 baud acoustically coupled modems....

I've had two early model SSD's get smoked out of a server in < 6 months. Yes they were SLC instead of the robust Samsung EVO 840's, and I didn't take the precautions to move the /var tree & <SWAP> to rotating media, and didn't have a ramdisk where compilations went, not a tmpfs in ram either.

Again, with respect to you...I would rather be cautious, than be out ~$500 bucks on a new, but smoked SSD. I work in a production environment. I really can't afford to do something stupid...In about ~6 months I would expect that I will be fully up to speed on FreeBSD. Until then, I need to ask for the indulgence of those more experienced than I in FreeBSD.

I guess I could simplify my original post though:

Is there an issue having FreeBSD spread out across both SSD and rotating media concurrently, without hosing the system?

I ask this because some of the posts I read before posting here, indicate that this paradigm might cause issues. And I am not experienced enough in FreeBSD to answer this question myself. I come from Linux, Linux since 2004. Before that AT&T SystemV Rev 3.3. Perhaps I am being overly cautious in my move to FreeBSD. I'd rather be cautious than do someting stupid on my part. I am moving myself, and all the clients I service from Arch/CentOS to FreeBSD. So mistakes I make on my worksation, will be duplicated in the customers server's that I port. They run smaller SSD's for the OS disk, and rotating RAID for storage, with a separate NAS for backup.

Again, I appreciate the time "vetting" and critiquing my scheme.

Sincerely and respectfully,

Dave

wblock@ · Feb 10, 2014

Re: SSD review setup request

dcbdbis said:
I am not comfortable in assuming it's ok.

Please don't characterize my reasoning as assumptions: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7173/...w-120gb-250gb-500gb-750gb-1tb-models-tested/3

I've had two early model SSD's get smoked out of a server in < 6 months.

What brand and model? I'm guessing it was the brand that had 60% failure rates on some lines, but don't want to give away the ending.

Yes they were SLC instead of the robust Samsung EVO 840's

SLC should actually be better. The Samsung EVO line has only been out a few months, not long enough to be proven yet.

I guess I could simplify my original post though:

Is there an issue having FreeBSD spread out across both SSD and rotating media concurrently, without hosing the system?

I ask this because some of the posts I read before posting here, indicate that this paradigm might cause issues.

Please link to those posts, it's hard to imagine what kind of issues could be caused.

dcbdbis · Feb 10, 2014

Re: SSD review setup request

Hello wblock,

And again thank you for replying.

I didn't mean to ruffle feathers. That was absolutely not my intent. I bought this drive specifically because it did have a great lifespan. And I wasn't intentionally putting the "assume" words in your mouth, really I didn't mean to. I don't want to assume the mfg's data is right. I want to protect this SSD. At worst I'll increase it's lifespan.....And yes I know, the outrageously long MTBF....I'll be long decomposed in my grave before I burn it out...And achiving that is exactly my point.

Lets move beyond all the quoting posts, and back and forth......and lets focus on what I should have posted in the first place: Mount points of differing media types and any potentially negative side-effects to FreeBSD.

I'm going to setup the FreeBSD on this SSD so that volatile, frequently written data is on rotating media..... That is my decision. At least unless someone tells me that deploying this strategy is a recipe for disaster.....That's the way I've setup my client's server hardware. Most of their SSD's are the little 64GB deals...that can burn out much more quickly than the 1TB monster I've got.

And other than my first ugly foray into SSD land, which I cooked two of them when they were new to the marketplace (I accept full responsiblity)....it is clear that I got into SSD technology way too early....early enough trim wasn't even in mainline kernels yet.....

Regarding quoting blogs/wiki's I read.....I don't write down the URL's of posts I have read.....and being that I am a recovering stroke victim, I don't have the ability to remember what the URL's were that I read yesterday or day before...literally! I remember the gist, the theme, and that's about it. I can't even tell you who wrote them! My short term memory is powdered toast. My long-term memory survived relatively unscathed, and that's why I can even still sysadmin for the few close customers I kept since having the stroke. As FreeBSD is new to me, and thus in my short term memory, I am overly cautious, nervous. Not because I don't believe in FreeBSD, it's because I worry about my application of FreeBSD. Things start to stick in my memory....~6 months. And if they are on the forums, I won't need to ask these things again. And once answered, I only need to turn to the forums to look up the answers to my old posts. Because I can guarantee you that I will use my posts in the various forums as a guide for my future FreeBSD installs. Not to mention they are there on the record for other Linux porters to FreeBSD to read.

In the meantime I ask for your patience and forgiveness in my initial posts, and for your forbearance in assisting me getting ported over.

All my issues regarding sound equalization, Intel graphics, NVidia graphics, DE's, DM's, etc, have all been resolved by this community. And it's on the record for others to look for too. I suspect that as Linux continues to fragment, with one distro doing things "this" way, and the other distro doing that same thing "that" way......I strongly suspect FreeBSD is going to have more folks porting to it to obtain what I am looking for: Stability and consistency.

The wiki articles I read on FreeBSD/SSD on Google and Yahoo searches out on the web, did not provide consistent strategies between them. It seemed the posts had different mechanisms, different strategies. If they were consistent, I would have deployed that way, instead of posting here. So naturally, I became concerned.

So with a lack of consensus, I want to deploy the strategy I have in place now, the way I know it will work (at least in linux it works). This way I know I am safe, unless this causes a problem with FreeBSD.

I really don't want to cause problems, irritation, confrontation, or other issues within the FreeBSD community, whom are my benefactors.

So let me rephrase the question and distill it down to what I likely should have posted originally...

Can I deploy my strategy in FreeBSD without causing FreeBSD to have operational/stability issues?

Thanks again for following this thread, I am appreciative,

Sincerely and respectfully,

Dave.

wblock@ · Feb 11, 2014

Re: SSD review setup request

I'd still like to hear about the failed SSDs. There is a brand famous for failures. Not media wearing out from too many writes, just terrible quality.

Your proposed fstab is Linux-based. Some of those things will not work for FreeBSD, like a separate /boot and /. The FreeBSD multiboot loader boot0 will not boot from an extended partition. Not a problem for grub2, but then you'll have to set it up.

If I had to have a layout like that and was worried about the SSD, I would test it on a hard drive first. As far as FreeBSD or other operating systems are concerned, the drives are just blocks. There is no difference between how flash or magnetic media blocks are used.

dcbdbis · Feb 11, 2014

Re: SSD review setup request

Thank you for the post and the answer!

Now I have all the info I need for porting over. I did buy from NewEgg a new rotating HDD to install at the same time to put the volatile FreeBSD items on. And I understand that by distributing the OS this way, I introduce a vulnerability: If that rotating disk dies....I am going to need to reload the OS with new mountpoints to recover!

Regarding the 64GB SSD's. I went onto NewEgg where I purchaed them, and because the order is several years in the past....a record of what make/model I purchased is long gone. And since I also tossed the drives a few years ago....I can't remember.

I tend to keep good documentation on my client's hardware configuration....But that is a dynamic document I modify as I change hardware out. So I can't find any records in my system on whose server they went into, nor whose SSD's they were either.

Then I perused EBay in hopes of a pic jogging my memory...Nothing there seems to jog my memory at all.

I apologize, that data is lost.

I really appreciate the assistance......and I'm going to mark the post as solved.

Thank You!

Sincerely and resectfully,

Dave

dcbdbis · Feb 15, 2014

Edits due to spelling and grammar...

Here is what I decided after doing a lot more reading.....

I am not going to put FreeBSD on my SSD.....Not yet.... Not because I am worried about frying my SSD with FreeBSD, I no longer have that fear. Rather, because FreeBSD is quite bristly when attempting to dual-boot it with Win 7. I've read several wiki articles....and forcing FreeBSD to dual-boot with Win 7 by using the EasyBCD edit feature of Windows is just not my cup of tea. The process is fraught with more danger than I am comfortable with at this time.

I have purchased a new separate 1TB rotating HDD. My original SSD will remain in it's existing SATA port, bootable, usable. I will add this new spinning HDD to the next available SATA port and install FreeBSD there....Then using my existing boot-loader - Syslinux....I will chainload FreeBSD from Syslinux. I have already checked to ensure that Syslinux can do this. The issue is that I have to stick with an MBR partitioning scheme which I am totally OK with partitioning by hand. I've already done this a lot when I was testing FreeBSD for suitability for my small operation.

For me with my multiple drive/RAID setup full of client data...it's simply the easiest and the one that provides the least risk factors. I can still run my Steam Games (the sole purpose of Win-7), I can still support my linux clientele, and I can have FreeBSD running as my main OS.

This provides me with:

a) I don't risk borking my Linux setup and orphaning clients that I haven't ported over yet....
b) I don't risk borking Win - 7.
c) I can now have FreeBSD as my main OS, without complicating support for my remaining Linux users. I can port my clients at a more relaxed pace, a "phase-in" of FreeBSD of sorts.
d) When all clients are using FreeBSD, then I can reinstall FreeBSD over Linux on my primary SSD (SATA-0), and copy documents, config files, etc. as needed from the other spinning FreeBSD hdd. If I do this, I provide myself and my clients less stress and buy myself more time to get my clients ported over. This is a more reasonable approach than the "tour-de-force" approach I was about to go down.

The $89 for a new HDD, is more than worth a lot of gas/windshield time/stress to convert my clients in a "rush". This was about to be a bad decision on my part....
If I didn't have clients that depended on me.....then Linux would be nuked outright.

I have simply come to the heartfelt conclusion that FreeBSD is simply a superior design model, and a better implementation model than Linux. It's designed, it's not chaotic. Ports are fresh, but ports usually don't break things. I have the current stuff I use daily, but my experience in the last month is that updates, ports, and "pkg install <whatever>" activities doesn't break things like it does in the Linux world. I'm spending too much time in Linux-land "maintaining and fixing" than I should be. CentOS (my client's current server OS) just keeps borking itself upon updates. I'm tired of driving 100 miles in the middle of the night fixing stuff that never should have broken at all.

For others looking to port....If you don't have clients and are somewhat familiar with the cli...FreeBSD is fairly easy to adjust to. I would encourage just diving right in! I am a cli style admin. I adjusted in < one work day. If I can do it as an old fart, anyone can! So have no fear!

Hope this update and rumination helps other folks moving to FreeBSD.

FYI,

Dave