Solved RAM memory enough?

ksiu

Member

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Messages: 93

Hi,

I notice my Thinkpad's palm rest gets quite warm when using Firefox (especially watching Youtube),
but just barely warm when playing the videos in VLC.

For example...
(1) playing a 720p Firefox Youtube video for 5 minutes...CPU temp exceed 60 deg and fan automatically enabled.
(2) playing same 720p video (downloaded) on VLC for 5 minutes...CPU temp never exceed 53 deg.


Is it possibly because my 4GB Thinkpad 440P does not have enough RAM?

Below is my "top" while Firefox is running.
Is the first Firefox process using 3.121 Gigabytes RAM?
And second using 2.797 Gigabytes of RAM?
There're also 3 more Firefox processes, all showing over 2 Gigs of memory usuage.

Is this why my palmrest gets warm whenever I run firefox for more than 10 minutes?

Code:
last pid: 40157;  load averages:  0.39,  0.56,  0.48                                                                    up 0+02:02:18  00:57:16
19 processes:  1 running, 18 sleeping
CPU:  7.6% user,  0.0% nice,  1.1% system,  0.3% interrupt, 91.1% idle
Mem: 800M Active, 499M Inact, 9972K Laundry, 564M Wired, 365M Buf, 1762M Free
Swap: 3657M Total, 3657M Free

  PID USERNAME    THR PRI NICE   SIZE    RES STATE    C   TIME    WCPU COMMAND
80536 tpt12         41  21    0  3121M   653M select   1   3:05  27.25% firefox
78916 tpt12         58  20    0  2797M   428M select   1   1:31  16.55% firefox
33578 tpt12          3  20    0    95M    65M select   1   1:58   0.39% Xorg
10111 tpt12          1  20    0    20M    10M select   1   0:03   0.00% st
79470 tpt12         24  20    0  2428M   186M select   1   0:01   0.00% firefox
34846 tpt12          1  20    0    35M    12M select   2   0:01   0.00% dwm
43787 tpt12          4  20    0    43M    17M select   0   0:01   0.00% dunst
80010 tpt12         21  20    0  2391M   151M select   0   0:01   0.00% firefox
80576 tpt12         16  20    0  2373M   138M select   2   0:00   0.00% firefox
35002 tpt12          1  25    0    12M  3128K wait     1   0:00   0.00% sh
10165 tpt12          1  20    0    12M  3528K wait     1   0:00   0.00% sh
43167 tpt12          1  20    0    12M  3652K select   0   0:00   0.00% dbus-daemon
26214 tpt12          1  20    0    12M  3240K wait     3   0:00   0.00% sh
28931 tpt12          1  52    0    11M  2980K wait     1   0:00   0.00% sh
78058 tpt12          1  20    0    11M  3184K wait     3   0:00   0.00% sh
33006 tpt12          1  28    0    13M  3244K wait     2   0:00   0.00% xinit
40157 tpt12          1  20    0    13M  3380K CPU2     2   0:00   0.00% top
37107 tpt12          1  25    0    10M  2212K nanslp   3   0:00   0.00% sleep
42763 tpt12          1  52    0    14M  4452K select   0   0:00   0.00% dbus-launch
 

mer

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 334
Messages: 547

Well, you're not using swap, CPU isn't really being taxed, you have a good amount of memory free, so the system isn't being taxed by that much.
VLC is simply playing the video, I'm assuming from a local file?
Firefox is downloading the video, so network device, cpu and gpu are doing their thing, so a lot more things are doing work.

Would more ram help? Probably not for the exact same scenario, but in general, yes more RAM is good. But VLC playing a local file is different than streaming video to play in firefox.

I'd be inclined to pull the battery, pop the covers and blow away all the dust that may be inside.
 

Alexander88207

Aspiring Daemon

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Messages: 709

For example...
(1) playing a 720p Firefox Youtube video for 5 minutes...CPU temp exceed 60 deg and fan automatically enabled.
(2) playing same 720p video (downloaded) on VLC for 5 minutes...CPU temp never exceed 53 deg.

VLC is using video acceleration by default (If possible)
 
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ksiu

Member

Reaction score: 13
Messages: 93

Well, you're not using swap, CPU isn't really being taxed, you have a good amount of memory free, so the system isn't being taxed by that much.
VLC is simply playing the video, I'm assuming from a local file?
Firefox is downloading the video, so network device, cpu and gpu are doing their thing, so a lot more things are doing work.

Would more ram help? Probably not for the exact same scenario, but in general, yes more RAM is good. But VLC playing a local file is different than streaming video to play in firefox.

I'd be inclined to pull the battery, pop the covers and blow away all the dust that may be inside.
I have already redid the thermal paste and checked the CPU fan (was very clean).
I did research on Google, and other T440P users also complained about heat.
One user suggested the integrated graphics chip is the culprit. Some T440P came with NVIDIA graphics chip, and some claim T440P with NVIDIA runs cooler. But you cannot just upgrade the graphics chip on the T440P.

Anyway, I have just about had it with the warm palm rest. It makes my wrist itchy. Just writing these messages on this forum, the CPU temperature is 55 deg and the palm rest is too warm. When I close firefox, the temp will slowly drop to mid 40s. I manually enable the CPU fan when the palmrest gets too warm, but I don't like this solution.

Thinking of getting another laptop. One with Nvidia graphics. Perhaps a bigger one (a 15" screen) like a T530. Maybe the larger size is better at dissipating heat.
 

mer

Aspiring Daemon

Reaction score: 334
Messages: 547

I work around palm rest and trackpad issues by using a mouse. Doesn't prevent the heat gain, but minimizes me feeling it :)
Graphics stuff: check firefox settings, there should be a way to enable "hardware acceleration" somewhere; enable that and should be similar to VLC in that aspect.
 

Trihexagonal

Son of Beastie

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Is it possibly because my 4GB Thinkpad 440P does not have enough RAM?
No.

I have 2 Thinkpad T61 and a Gateway/Acer clone with 4GM RAM each running FreeBSD. Both T61 have Nvidia Quadro NVS 140 chips, the one I have running is at 47c idle. The Gateway has Switchable Graphics and is using an ATI Mobilty Radeon HD 4250 chip.

I have an IBM Thinkpad T43 with 2GB RAM at 20 days uptime currently at 47c while sitting idle and it uses a ATI Mobilty Radeon X300.

I have two W520 with 8GB RAM and Nvidia Quadro 1000M with Optimus. The one I'm using now is at 58c with Audacious running the Blur Scope visualization, it can go up to 72c on both machines. The other one is my .mp3 player so it runs all the time and I don't fret about it..

60c is nothing to worry about. When it hits 100c it will auto-shutdown due to overheating, so your hands will cook before your CPU.

Is this why my palmrest gets warm whenever I run firefox for more than 10 minutes?
I don't know. What kind of videos are you watching on youtube?
 
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ksiu

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Messages: 93

No.

I have 2 Thinkpad T61 and a Gateway/Acer clone with 4GM RAM each running FreeBSD. Both T61 have Nvidia Quadro NVS 140 chips, the one I have running is at 47c idle. The Gateway has Switchable Graphics and is using an ATI Mobilty Radeon HD 4250 chip.

I have an IBM Thinkpad T43 with 2GB RAM at 20 days uptime currently at 47c while sitting idle and it uses a ATI Mobilty Radeon X300.

I have two W520 with 8GB RAM and Nvidia Quadro 1000M with Optimus. The one I'm using now is at 58c with Audacious running the Blur Scope visualization, it can go up to 72c on both machines. The other one is my .mp3 player so it runs all the time and I don't fret about it..

60c is nothing to worry about. When it hits 100c it will auto-shutdown due to overheating, so your hands will cook before your CPU.


I don't know. What kind of videos are you watching on youtube?
Once the CPU temp go above 50 deg C, I can feel the palm rest begin to get warm. After extended period of over 50 deg C (like 30 minutes), the palm rest gets uncomfortable and my wrist itches. Usually, I manually enable the CPU fan...this will cool down the palm rest.

I watch simple youtube videos...like 720p, 15 minutes how-to videos for example. Most time, I only listen to the political discussion video, while I edit files.

In comparison, I can surf on youtube on my iPad for 2 hours before it start to get warm.
 

Trihexagonal

Son of Beastie

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My W520 is at 59c right now and not even warm to the touch anywhere on the palmrest or keyboard.
 
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ksiu

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My W520 is at 59c right now and not even warm to the touch anywhere on the palmrest or keyboard.
I am thinking the T440P must have a design flaw in the chasis heat dissipation. If my CPU is 59c, then within a few minutes my palm rest will be very very uncomfortably warm.

My sister also has a Lenovo laptop, a Z51. Her Z51's palm rest is always cool, even when playing youtube for long time. Her Z51 is running Windows-10 though.
 

datasmurf

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Messages: 38

80536 tpt12 41 21 0 3121M 653M select 1 3:05 27.25% firefox

This firefox process is using 653M of "real" memory, not 3121M this is the virtual size what the kernel has made virtually available to the process.

You can set in the about:config tab the knob gfx.webrender.all to true to force HW acceleration via GPU.
Check if this changes anything on your system.


Go to the tab about:support and check the GPU Settings and maybe show us a partial screenshot if you reply. Just like the one below.

2021-06-25-233558_621x240_scrot.png



Your CPU is doing the all the work - this why it gets hot, vlc is using the GPU for video decoding. Like Alexander88207 already mentioned.
 

Trihexagonal

Son of Beastie

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Here is a shot of the $50 US ebay procured vintage T61 I have up running FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p7.
It has an Intel Core2 Duo T7700 @ 2.40GHz, 4GB RAM, Nvidia Quadro NVS 140M, Scorpio Black 250GB HDD @ 7200RPM with 14.1" 1440x900 (WXGA+) widescreen.

I have everything running I would normally have with top to show the load and sysutils/gkrellm2 to show the CPU temp at 61c and 62c. The Blur Scope raises the temp but it's not under a load by any means and has memory to spare for the general purpose desktop activities I use it for.
operational.jpg
 
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ksiu

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Messages: 93

80536 tpt12 41 21 0 3121M 653M select 1 3:05 27.25% firefox

This firefox process is using 653M of "real" memory, not 3121M this is the virtual size what the kernel has made virtually available to the process.

You can set in the about:config tab the knob gfx.webrender.all to true to force HW acceleration via GPU.
Check if this changes anything on your system.


Go to the tab about:support and check the GPU Settings and maybe show us a partial screenshot if you reply. Just like the one below.




Your CPU is doing the all the work - this why it gets hot, vlc is using the GPU for video decoding. Like Alexander88207 already mentioned.

out.png
 
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ksiu

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Messages: 93

Your CPU is doing the all the work - this why it gets hot, vlc is using the GPU for video decoding. Like Alexander88207 already mentioned.

As I understand, my T440P does not have graphics acceleration. Mine does not have the Nvidia graphics chip. Mine has the "integrated Intel graphics".

Some version of T440P does have the extra Nvidia chip.
 

Fuzzbox

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Messages: 62

I just tried h264ify. It does not make any difference.
Too bad, it lowered my cpu usage on my x220 and T430.

I have another question, regarding the cooling of you T440p. Does the fan reaches its top speed on FreeBSD when needed ?
I had this issue with a T430 and had to tweak the cooling process.
 
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ksiu

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Too bad, it lowered my cpu usage on my x220 and T430.

I have another question, regarding the cooling of you T440p. Does the fan reaches its top speed on FreeBSD when needed ?
I had this issue with a T430 and had to tweak the cooling process.

I am not a power user. I only use FIrefox and Shotwell (photo manager) and VLC. I never play graphic-intense games. So, my CPU never get super hot. When it does get hot, the fan automatically kicks on, and the temperature will drop fast down to mid 50s. I think it never has to go more than 50% fan speed. The automatic fan is very quiet while using Firefox/youtube, but I know it turns on sometimes because I see the CPU temperature drop.

I have manually enabled the fan to maximum speed just to hear what max sounds like. At max speed, the fan is very noticeable.
 
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ksiu

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Messages: 93

Another thing I just realize is that the warm palmrest was much less noticiable during the winter.

I don't use Air conditioning during the day.
So, my room gets hot...like up to 80 something degrees. But I window fans blowing.

Another thing I found out is that the "P" in T440P stands for "performance".
So, I guess it is to be expected it will run hot!
I wish I had bought the regular T440 or the T440S, instead.
I read the T440 has more energy efficient CPU, which means less heat.
The the T440S stands for "slim", and it also has the energy efficient CPU.
 

Fuzzbox

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I wish I had bought the regular T440 or the T440S, instead.

Many people praise the T440p, it's a great laptop, a beast when upgraded.
It's built to get hot, but indeed not power efficient.
Enjoy it !
 
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