grahamperrin

Daemon

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… how to safely update the system (regardless of how far out of date) reliably. …

Let's assume that PkgBase is the way forward.

<https://alpha.pkgbase.live/> and so on.

https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-pkgbase

In addition to the list, there's sometimes discussion of PkgBase in IRC for FreeBSD.

Retrospective (2018–2019)



 

tux2bsd

Active Member

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Can it tie in to a better transport method? (i.e. bittorrent (+extra validation))

freebsd-update is slow and then the mirrors (incl pkg) are also very slow in NZ.

When I downloaded the ~90G of all 13-RELEASE torrents to seed that came down at ~20MB/s (bottleneck being by my wifi).

Downloads freebsd-update/pkg generally maxes at ~300KB/s for download, but most often at ~120KB/s.

So a faster delivery and a better/faster update tool is win win. Keeping the current way for those that need that too, say with sysrc.
 
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grahamperrin

grahamperrin

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freebsd-update is slow

This being the first weekend following announcement of 13.0-RELEASE, I should expect some slowness.

Why is freebsd-update so horrible slow?

and then the mirrors (incl pkg) are also very slow in NZ. …

 

tux2bsd

Active Member

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It's faster than Kenya so be happy? At any given time, not just major release, the mirrors are slow. Compared to available usable bandwidth (e.g. mirror: 120KBps vs usable: 20MBps), which is why thinking about the transport would be beneficial for NZ & Kenya & Everyone.

freebsd-update is slow, period. It is simply a very slow process regardless of when you perform your upgrade, or if it is a minor or major version.
 
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grahamperrin

grahamperrin

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You wrote "… mirrors (incl pkg) are also very slow …", I linked to a recent topic entitled "pkg upgrade slow".

It's faster than Kenya so be happy?

No, but slowness of pkg upgrade might be discussed in the pkg upgrade slow topic.
 

tux2bsd

Active Member

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I didn't mean to overtake your conversation re pkgbase, my input was around "why not improve it holistically" and hit the other major factor, content delivery, as well.

I did watch this some months ago and thought it was "very soon" tm.
pkgbase: Are we there yet ???
 
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grahamperrin

grahamperrin

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Ah, thanks. I'm all for holistic. I might watch the 2019 video later today (I'm on holiday for a few days).

… thought it was "very soon" tm. …

It does work in that (for example) I used one of the base system package sets at <https://alpha.pkgbase.live/#package-sets> to perform an upgrade:
  • from 13.0-RC5
  • to 13.0-RELEASE
– in a disposable virtual machine. Upgrade succeeded.

Alpha

Re: <https://alpha.pkgbase.live/howto/bootstrap.html#pkgsave> if I understand correctly, it should be possible to (for example):

Code:
mv /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave /etc/master.passwd
mv /etc/group.pkgsave /etc/group
/usr/sbin/pwd_mkdb -p /etc/master.passwd

– however, this will be less than pleasing if your users are mysteriously missing from /etc/master.passwd.pkgsave. Keyword: clobber.

Part of my success – without the user-related clobber – probably involved straying from the <https://alpha.pkgbase.live/howto/bootstrap.html#setup> part of the routine. I should discuss the experiment in private before sharing details here.

Documentation

Omission of <https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase> from the opening post was intentional. <https://wiki.freebsd.org/action/info/PkgBase?action=info> my comment "… This page will benefit for a non-trivial re-write to reflect ongoing work in and around the FreeBSD community." is a polite way of saying that the page is horribly outdated.

I'm an editor, but I'm not the person to pull the page into shape; I don't have the big picture
 

tux2bsd

Active Member

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I'll give it a try at some point. I remember looking at this wiki page a while ago and thinking the project was stagnant but PkgBase is definitely an important optional improvement going forward and if proven over time could become default. It also makes sense that pkg users have OS updates be handled via packages but that doesn't mean the traditional way needs to go away either - both can be used to verify the same outcome occurred (else a bug exists somewhere).

Plus, to re-iterate better delivery could be added on too i.e. torrent / CDN etc
 

astyle

Aspiring Daemon

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Hey... I think the posters in this thread are not considering the fact that this very well may have to do with network bandwidth in Kenya and NZ (New Zealand, I assume?) you gotta pick a FreeBSD mirror that is closer by. I know that FreeBSD offers scripts to do IP resolving and do it for you, but they also provide a list of mirrors and what they host. How fast those mirrors are - that's really out of FreeBSD's hands.

FreeBSD does offer their .iso files over bittorrent.... Now, if pkgbase.live used scripts that roll an iso that is later distributed via bittorrent and then slurped in/processed by a client machine - now that would be something.
 
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