OpenSolaris is dead

M

Matty

Future of ZFS

Hi,

Looks like after solaris 11 there will be no more opensolaris (http://www.osnews.com/story/23674/Oracle_Details_Solaris_11_OpenSolaris_Future_Shaky). does anyone have an idea what that will mean for the future development of importing zfs into freebsd?
Till version 23 there shouldn't be much problems but after that?

What about bug fixes and other new features (BP, encryption) and what are the plans for that point in time when the last available opensolaris zfs version is imported?

Start our own zfs-freebsd fork or look at luminos?
 
http://netmgt.blogspot.com/2010/08/solaris-11-2011-confirmed.html

Solaris 11 will be released. What will happen after that is unclear. It should by now be quite clear that Oracle did not buy Sun to close it down. There has been several releases of new material: including x86 servers, roadmaps for the development of SPARC and similar.

It would seem that the story of the demise of OSOL are exagerated.

According to http://www.serverwatch.com/news/article.php/3897706/Oracle-Details-Upcoming-Solaris-11-Release.htm Oracle will continue to invest in OSOL.

If you would read all the other discussions on integrating the newer versions of ZFS into FreeBSD then you would see that problems revolve around the work required to make inclusion possible. Python inclusion in base springs to mind.
 
don't forget about IllumnOS, they might maintain their own fork of ZFS which we might be able to import...
 
I hope so ... ZFS is just great, but Oracle has a baby of its own: btrfs.

> don't forget about IllumnOS, they might maintain their own fork of ZFS which we might be able to import...

I doubt it, for such work you need people, who actually "breath" filesystems. Maybe some people like Kirk McKusick or Pawel Jakub Dawidek. Nobody wants some Linux-like handicraft work.
 
oliverh said:
I hope so ... ZFS is just great, but Oracle has a baby of its own: btrfs.
Click to expand...
That is totally true. Oracle will definitely try to promote its baby.
The only hope for ZFS is if it becomes a project of its own, supported by open source communities and maybe ported to other Unix like OSs.
Given the benefits of ZFS, especially for storage purposes, it is not hard to imagine for a commercial company to adopt ZFS.

George
 
@Matty

Even ZFS v28 is available as source code:
http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/zpool/zpool_main.c
Code: 
   4031 		(void) printf(gettext(" 21  Deduplication\n"));
   4032 		(void) printf(gettext(" 22  Received properties\n"));
   4033 		(void) printf(gettext(" 23  Slim ZIL\n"));
   4034 		(void) printf(gettext(" 24  System attributes\n"));
   4035 		(void) printf(gettext(" 25  Improved scrub stats\n"));
   4036 		(void) printf(gettext(" 26  Improved snapshot deletion "
   4037 		    "performance\n"));
   4038 		(void) printf(gettext(" 27  Improved snapshot creation "
   4039 		    "performance\n"));
   4040 		(void) printf(gettext(" 28  Multiple vdev replacements\n"));

You can 'grab' the whole source like that:
# hg clone [url=ssh://anon@hg.opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate]ssh://anon@hg.opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate[/url] onnv
 
vermaden said:
@Matty

Even ZFS v28 is available as source code:
http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/zpool/zpool_main.c
Code: 
   4031 		(void) printf(gettext(" 21  Deduplication\n"));
   4032 		(void) printf(gettext(" 22  Received properties\n"));
   4033 		(void) printf(gettext(" 23  Slim ZIL\n"));
   4034 		(void) printf(gettext(" 24  System attributes\n"));
   4035 		(void) printf(gettext(" 25  Improved scrub stats\n"));
   4036 		(void) printf(gettext(" 26  Improved snapshot deletion "
   4037 		    "performance\n"));
   4038 		(void) printf(gettext(" 27  Improved snapshot creation "
   4039 		    "performance\n"));
   4040 		(void) printf(gettext(" 28  Multiple vdev replacements\n"));

You can 'grab' the whole source like that:
# hg clone [url=ssh://anon@hg.opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate]ssh://anon@hg.opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate[/url] onnv
Click to expand...

nice...
 
oliverh said:
I hope so ... ZFS is just great, but Oracle has a baby of its own: btrfs.
Click to expand...

Remember that ZFS is mature while btrfs is not yet. ZFS is fully owned by Oracle, and is not licensed under GPL. I could think of several reasons why Oracle would choose to run with ZFS, which is now also their, albeit adopted, baby.

Remember that Oracle paid alot of money for Sun. Does it not seem slightly unreasonable that they would stop all development of the purchased platforms?
 
oliverh said:
I hope so ... ZFS is just great, but Oracle has a baby of its own: btrfs.
Click to expand...

But btrds is only a filesystem, nothing more, You still need 'another layer' to do the RAID levels and manage volumes and disks, ZFS has that built in, btrfs will never match ZFS.

Now that Oracle owns ZFS, it could release it also on GPL and allow its way to Linux kernel, that would make btrfs obsolete and useless.

IMHO Oracle would be jest plain stupid if they would try to kill best filesystem/volume manager on earth.
 
vermaden said:
But btrds is only a filesystem, nothing more, You still need 'another layer' to do the RAID levels and manage volumes and disks, ZFS has that built in, btrfs will never match ZFS.

Now that Oracle owns ZFS, it could release it also on GPL and allow its way to Linux kernel, that would make btrfs obsolete and useless.

IMHO Oracle would be jest plain stupid if they would try to kill best filesystem/volume manager on earth.
Click to expand...

how I see it is that ZFS will stay in solaris and will no longer be available as opensource.
Btrfs will became the FS for Oracles own linux and will stay gpl. If people want ZFS and all it's goodies than customers would have to upgrade to solaris and pay for it.

either way if freebsd is cut off from the zfs source after v24 or what ever what we do then? And that was may initial question: If the ZFS scenario is unfolding what are our options. Import to the last available version and take it from there with/out the collaboration with the illuminos folks.


second and less likely option is that all stays the same and dtrace and zfs will stay under the current license and all is good. After all in the article oracle said to keep committing to the open source community; what ever that mean (product wise).

isn't that the big plan of oracle?
from enrty level to mission critical? linux/mysql to solaris/oracle. All from the same vendor software and hardware wise with support.
 
Matty said:
either way if freebsd is cut off from the zfs source after v24 or what ever what we do then? And that was may initial question: If the ZFS scenario is unfolding what are our options. Import to the last available version and take it from there with/out the collaboration with the illuminos folks.
Click to expand...
What we do? We keep it (zfs) of course!
And we improve on it as we see fit (and have people available with interest in such things).
Eventually it might be replaced by something else, but when that happens we take it from there.


isn't that the big plan of oracle?
from enrty level to mission critical? linux/mysql to solaris/oracle. All from the same vendor software and hardware wise with support.
Click to expand...

The big plan of Oracle is to make money. Full stop. No surprises there. They might be good supporters of open source, or they might not. The jury is still out on that question. We will live and see.
 
mix_room said:
Remember that ZFS is mature while btrfs is not yet. ZFS is fully owned by Oracle, and is not licensed under GPL. I could think of several reasons why Oracle would choose to run with ZFS, which is now also their, albeit adopted, baby.

Remember that Oracle paid alot of money for Sun. Does it not seem slightly unreasonable that they would stop all development of the purchased platforms?
Click to expand...

Java is big business, the cashcow, not ZFS. Remember? ZFS is _more_ mature than btrfs -- really _mature_ is something like UFS. But btrfs gains lots more hype, like ext4, like Linux per se. Since when is quality the common denominator in todays business? Why doesn't *BSD rules the market? Why is Windows the king of the desktop, followed by Mac OS?
 
vermaden said:
But btrds is only a filesystem, nothing more, You still need 'another layer' to do the RAID levels and manage volumes and disks, ZFS has that built in, btrfs will never match ZFS.

Now that Oracle owns ZFS, it could release it also on GPL and allow its way to Linux kernel, that would make btrfs obsolete and useless.

IMHO Oracle would be jest plain stupid if they would try to kill best filesystem/volume manager on earth.
Click to expand...

You don't need to sell it to me, I already "bought" it ;-) But think different, why to hell dominates Linux the market? Because of quality? I do think you have the answer already ;-)
 
oliverh said:
Btw. OpenSolaris is dead:

http://sstallion.blogspot.com/2010/08/opensolaris-is-dead.html
Click to expand...

but on the other side:

Code: 
We will continue to use the CDDL license statement in nearly all
Solaris source code files. We will not remove the CDDL from any files
in Solaris to which it already applies, and new source code files that
are created will follow the current policy regarding applying the CDDL
(simply, that usr/src files will have the CDDL, and the very small
minority of files in usr/closed might not have it). Use of other open
licenses in non-ON consolidations (e.g. GPL in the Desktop area) will
also continue. As before, requests to change the license associated
with source code are case-by-case decisions.

We will distribute updates to approved CDDL or other open source-
licensed code following full releases of our enterprise Solaris
operating system. In this manner, new technology innovations will
show up in our releases before anywhere else. We will no longer
distribute source code for the entirety of the Solaris operating
system in real-time while it is developed, on a nightly basis.

Anyone who is consuming Solaris code using the CDDL, whether in pieces
or as a part of the OpenSolaris source distribution or a derivative
thereof, would therefore be able to consume any updates we release at
that time, under the terms of the CDDL, LGPL, or whatever license
applies.
 
As you can see, it isn't about ZFS only. It's about OpenSolaris per se, ZFS, VirtualBox, Java, OpenOffice and it's not a FreeBSD specific topic, therefore offtopic.
 
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