Non-Linux OSes hardware support, a sad story

B

badbrain

Guest
Like the title, it's sad. I have to abandon FreeBSD only because I no longer have access to the internet cable, having to use wifi with an old desktop PC and my wifi dongle doesn't supported by FreeBSD. Indeed not supported by any OSes other than Windows and Linux. Very silly but true. I researched for many days and ended up given up. They sold many cheap dongles, but none supported by the BSDs because it's too new. If I want to continue using FreeBSD, I have to search for very old ones. And I found Wifi speed on the BSDs just very poor because lack of properly driver support. I just gave up. My country is just not the US.

Other BSDs even worse. And OpenIndiana even can't boot on my Core 2 duo, it's just silently hangs.

Linux is the cheapest option for me. I don't want to go back to Windows 7. If I want to use the BSDs, I have to invest even more. I just found, the more widely supported a products, the cheaper it is to use it. That's evenly right for smartphones. So, bye.
 
You need to buy the correct hardware for the OS you want to run. Not the other way round.

For example, no-one complains that a WiFi adaptor doesn't work with macOS (and FreeBSD has *much* more support). Instead an Apple user will simply buy one that does work!

If not, just run FreeBSD in Windows Hyper-V. Think of it as a proprietary hardware abstraction layer.
 
badbrain said:
Like the title, it's sad. I have to abandon FreeBSD only because I no longer have access to the internet cable, having to use wifi with an old desktop PC and my wifi dongle doesn't supported by FreeBSD. Indeed not supported by any OSes other than Windows and Linux. Very silly but true. I researched for many days and ended up given up. They sold many cheap dongles, but none supported by the BSDs because it's too new. If I want to continue using FreeBSD, I have to search for very old ones. And I found Wifi speed on the BSDs just very poor because lack of properly driver support. I just gave up. My country is just not the US.

Other BSDs even worse. And OpenIndiana even can't boot on my Core 2 duo, it's just silently hangs.

Linux is the cheapest option for me. I don't want to go back to Windows 7. If I want to use the BSDs, I have to invest even more. I just found, the more widely supported a products, the cheaper it is to use it. That's evenly right for smartphones. So, bye.
Click to expand...

it is working on today freebsd:
Belkin Surf N300 Micro WLAN USB-Adapter
 
Look at it this way. A operating system is nothing more than a tool.
You need to use the tool that fulfills your task.
 
Drivers are written by people. One can always look at the source code for the Linux driver and use that knowledge to write a driver for FreeBSD.
Especially USB stuff shouldn't be too difficult compared to discrete PCI/PCIe hardware.

Anyway, enjoy Linux or whatever other OS you decide to use.
 
Hmm. I felt the same way as badbrain this last week. I don't know if this is in the manual (any manual), but there really should be a red letter warning on the cover which says:

WARNING:
COMPUTERS ARE FRUSTRATING​
 
kpedersen said:
You need to buy the correct hardware for the OS you want to run. Not the other way round.
Click to expand...

+1.

However, there are exceptions. If you bought a $1500 laptop that doesn't work well with FreeBSD, say a Razer Blade or a Microsoft Surface model, then economics work in favor of abandoning *BSD (unless you are a kernel programmer and expect to port *BSD to a not-well-supported laptop like a Razer/Surface device).

But for a Wi-Fi adapter, next time you should look for what chipset it runs before buying. Don't just buy anything because it's a good deal on Amazon/eBay/AliExpress/etc. If you are looking for one, search with names like "Realtek" or "Ralink". That's how I got a compatible Wi-Fi dongle on eBay.
 
If you're happy with a Core 2 Duo, then a secondhand late-2009 Apple Mac mini has supported WiFi built-in as does my 2007 Mac mini (both running FreeBSD 12.0).
 
neel said:
+1.

However, there are exceptions. If you bought a $1500 laptop that doesn't work well with FreeBSD, say a Razer Blade or a Microsoft Surface model, then economics work in favor of abandoning *BSD (unless you are a kernel programmer and expect to port *BSD to a not-well-supported laptop like a Razer/Surface device).

But for a Wi-Fi adapter, next time you should look for what chipset it runs before buying. Don't just buy anything because it's a good deal on Amazon/eBay/AliExpress/etc. If you are looking for one, search with names like "Realtek" or "Ralink". That's how I got a compatible Wi-Fi dongle on eBay.
Click to expand...
Zyxel is another name to look out for..
 
Great, we have the next troll thread by the same person and a lot of people falling for it.

Simple as that, anyone actually wanting to have a problem solved will simply ask and/or file bug reports.
 
Zirias said:
Great, we have the next troll thread by the same person and a lot of people falling for it.

Simple as that, anyone actually wanting to have a problem solved will simply ask and/or file bug reports.
Click to expand...
Hater gonna hate. I know you hate me so I'm just ignore you.
 
trev said:
If you're happy with a Core 2 Duo, then a secondhand late-2009 Apple Mac mini has supported WiFi built-in as does my 2007 Mac mini (both running FreeBSD 12.0).
Click to expand...
PMc said:
WiFi adapters of that age one might find at the flea market also.
Click to expand...
No. It's another computer. My pc now is an intel g2030. It doesn't have any built-in wireless card so I have to use usb dongle. As I said above, I don't live on the US. Second hand pc here mostly old Thinkpad laptop. I have never own or used any laptop, only desktop up to now.
 
neel said:
+1.

However, there are exceptions. If you bought a $1500 laptop that doesn't work well with FreeBSD, say a Razer Blade or a Microsoft Surface model, then economics work in favor of abandoning *BSD (unless you are a kernel programmer and expect to port *BSD to a not-well-supported laptop like a Razer/Surface device).

But for a Wi-Fi adapter, next time you should look for what chipset it runs before buying. Don't just buy anything because it's a good deal on Amazon/eBay/AliExpress/etc. If you are looking for one, search with names like "Realtek" or "Ralink". That's how I got a compatible Wi-Fi dongle on eBay.
Click to expand...
It's a Ralink MT7601 as lsusb show. Many names other suggested is not available here. And I'm a noob, I don't know how to file a bug report or using mailing lists.
 
kpedersen said:
If not, just run FreeBSD in Windows Hyper-V. Think of it as a proprietary hardware abstraction layer.
Click to expand...
Indeed what I means when I said Linux is my cheapest option. If I want to use this scheme I will need to upgrade to a Ryzen 2200g with 4 cores and buy 8gb dram3 for the FreeBSD guest (2 cores, 4gb ram) run smoothly. Cost more than just staying with Linux and abandon FreeBSD.
 
badbrain said:
If I want to use this scheme I will need to upgrade to a Ryzen 2200g with 4 cores and buy 8gb dram3 for the FreeBSD guest (2 cores, 4gb ram) run smoothly. Cost more than just staying with Linux and abandon FreeBSD.
Click to expand...

You can happily get away with an Intel Core 2 Duo and 4 gigs running on 32-bit Windows XP and Microsoft's free VirtualPC:
www.freebsd.org

Chapter 24. Virtualization

Virtualization software allows multiple operating systems to run simultaneously on the same computer
www.freebsd.org www.freebsd.org

This is the spec of one of my laptops (some crappy acer) that did not play well with native FreeBSD but as a guest OS it was actually pretty nice. No matter how convenient FreeBSD jails are, a single click button "take snapshot" is really useful during the heat of development ;)

Windows XP works well:
1) It is lighter than all other operating systems of that era.
2) 32-bits is all you need with 4 gigs. Remember, 64-bit operating systems are not faster, they can run slower due to pointer size / cache misses.
3) 100% secure when offline. Either disable ethernet access on the host (and only allow FreeBSD through) or set up a firewall (I.e Sygate Firewall) and block everything apart from VirtualPC

You can also run FreeBSD in a VM such as VirtualBox on Linux but the desktop environments are much less efficient than Windows XP. You will be wasting resources; better spent within FreeBSD doing the stuff you actually want to be doing ;)

neel said:
However, there are exceptions. If you bought a $1500 laptop that doesn't work well with FreeBSD, say a Razer Blade or a Microsoft Surface model, then economics work in favor of abandoning *BSD (unless you are a kernel programmer and expect to port *BSD to a not-well-supported laptop like a Razer/Surface device).
Click to expand...

True; but at the same time, Linux is no walk in the park with these awkward kinds of "non-standard" hardware either. I would either sell it (most likely because I find gamer / consumer laptops too flimsy and breakable for proper use) or the Virtual machine route as mentioned above (Just with a more modern Windows). That way I can ensure driver compatibility using the one OS that it was (narrow-minded) manufactured to run with. Then in around 5 years when the newest version of Windows no-longer supports it; FreeBSD will probably be the best bet anyway. Hardware compatibility basically solves itself (with a lot effort on behalf of the many contributors to FreeBSD) :D
 
Last I looked, a wifi adapter that works with FreeBSD is readily available for $9 US new. I don't understand the issue. I've run FreeBSD on old and new laptops including my workstation for years.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
Last I looked, a wifi adapter that works with FreeBSD is readily available for $9 US new. I don't understand the issue. I've run FreeBSD on old and new laptops including my workstation for years.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think you must be really unlucky to get a wifi adapter that doesn't work on FreeBSD these days. At worst you need to mess about a little with installing firmware from ports / packages.

But if in doubt, go to a Raspberry Pi website and just get one of these. It almost guarantees FreeBSD compatibility because we often share the same driver work.
thepihut.com

Raspberry Pi USB Accessories

Your Raspberry Pi 4 comes equipped with no less than 4 USB ports for adding storage, peripherals and other devices. At The Pi Hut, we offer a great range of quality USB add-ons for your Raspberry Pi. For game control, we stock a selection of Raspberry Pi USB gamepads for use with retro gaming...
thepihut.com thepihut.com
 
kpedersen said:
You can happily get away with an Intel Core 2 Duo and 4 gigs running on 32-bit Windows XP and Microsoft's free VirtualPC:
www.freebsd.org

Chapter 24. Virtualization

Virtualization software allows multiple operating systems to run simultaneously on the same computer
www.freebsd.org www.freebsd.org

This is the spec of one of my laptops (some crappy acer) that did not play well with native FreeBSD but as a guest OS it was actually pretty nice. No matter how convenient FreeBSD jails are, a single click button "take snapshot" is really useful during the heat of development ;)

Windows XP works well:
1) It is lighter than all other operating systems of that era.
2) 32-bits is all you need with 4 gigs. Remember, 64-bit operating systems are not faster, they can run slower due to pointer size / cache misses.
3) 100% secure when offline. Either disable ethernet access on the host (and only allow FreeBSD through) or set up a firewall (I.e Sygate Firewall) and block everything apart from VirtualPC

You can also run FreeBSD in a VM such as VirtualBox on Linux but the desktop environments are much less efficient than Windows XP. You will be wasting resources; better spent within FreeBSD doing the stuff you actually want to be doing ;)



True; but at the same time, Linux is no walk in the park with these awkward kinds of "non-standard" hardware either. I would either sell it (most likely because I find gamer / consumer laptops too flimsy and breakable for proper use) or the Virtual machine route as mentioned above (Just with a more modern Windows). That way I can ensure driver compatibility using the one OS that it was (narrow-minded) manufactured to run with. Then in around 5 years when the newest version of Windows no-longer supports it; FreeBSD will probably be the best bet anyway. Hardware compatibility basically solves itself (with a lot effort on behalf of the many contributors to FreeBSD) :D
Click to expand...
It's very untrue. FreeBSD and any other OSes except FreeDOS require VMX support from the processor. And even more with that limited resource I would rather rent a VPS offers FreeBSD because it's too slow to be usable. Your suggestion with my hardware specs is unpractical. I want a full desktop not only CLI. Only NetBSD, with this hack I could use it on Virtualbox on Linux with text mode:
vboxsdl --norawr0 --startvm NetBSD

It's the reason why I respect NetBSD. When everyone abandoned me, only it be with me.

And I have to give up on Windows 7 because updating more and more difficult. MS caused this. With latest Chrome you will find SSL certificate errors (https connection not safe, no affect if you adjust date time like previous time). And I don't want to be bad guy anymore, I will not use cracked softwares any longer.
 
Why don't you simply get a cheap wireless access-point and set it up as a wireless->wired bridge?
 
Just get a Linksys WAP300N or something similar. The WAP connects to the wireless network. The ethernet ports are then usable for devices that don't have wifi, it's just a plain ethernet at that point. I have one in my bedroom as my TV's wifi only supports 2.4GHz and has really dodgy reception. The TV and media-players are now hooked up to the WAP300N with ethernet, the WAP in turn is connected to my wifi network with 5GHz (much better reception and less crowded).
 
badbrain said:
It's very untrue. FreeBSD and any other OSes except FreeDOS require VMX support from the processor.
Click to expand...

The Core 2 Duo is enough for that. It has Intel VT-x. Virtualization isn't just for gamer PCs or servers. Remember a lot of development tools also use it for emulators etc.

ark.intel.com

Product Specifications

quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.
ark.intel.com ark.intel.com

What I mean is that pretty much any laptop or PC you can buy today (even budget range) has some sort of virtualisation support. Just remember to enable it in the bios. Yes to run bigger tools like server grade Hyper-V you need (pointlessly?) SLAT and other things. VirtualBox is generally always workable though.

Or check out something like the PQI Airpen (Similar to SirDice's suggestion)

PQI Air Pen Express Wireless Router : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Buy
www.amazon.co.uk

The USB is just for power, it really just converts a WiFi network into standard ethernet. I use this for my Solaris 10 workstation.

Where there's a will, there's a way! :)
 
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