Looking forward to FreeBSD Package Base!

zoujiaqing

zoujiaqing

About FreeBSD Package Base!

I would very much hope FreeBSD use "Package Base" to managerment all packages.

First, this makes the entire kernel code easier to maintain.

Second, the kernel-dependent software can be maintained independently.

Get more people to contribute to projects they excel at.
 
I am a little bit skeptical about this. It might be a good idea, but in general I like the very simplistic BSD design of the core install separate from ports/packages and the like.

It might work out well, but I am not sure the delineation of core system to ports is a bad thing.
 
eldaemon said:
I am a little bit skeptical about this. It might be a good idea, but in general I like the very simplistic BSD design of the core install separate from ports/packages and the like.

It might work out well, but I am not sure the delineation of core system to ports is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
The "system vs third-party" paradigm that is so dear to FreeBSD users is enforced through the rigorous use of a well-defined directory hierarchy. How ports/packages vs kernel+base system get installed and updated changes nothing. pkgbase basically changes nothing.
 
eldaemon said:
I am a little bit skeptical about this. It might be a good idea, but in general I like the very simplistic BSD design of the core install separate from ports/packages and the like. It might work out well, but I am not sure the delineation of core system to ports is a bad thing.
Click to expand...
I need using pkg command to upgrade my FreeBSD system.
 
zoujiaqing said:
I need using pkg command to upgrade my FreeBSD system.
Click to expand...
freebsd-update(8) doesn't work?

Code: 
ROOT# freebsd-update fetch
<list of files that will be updated>
ROOT# freebsd-update install
<install messages>

That will apply the latest patches to your system. If you needed to upgrade from 12.0 to 12.1, you would use this instead:

Code: 
ROOT# freebsd-update -r 12.1-RELEASE upgrade

I haven't experienced any trouble since I'm still relatively new to FreeBSD, but I've seen more than one person recommend doing a backup and installing a new major release of FreeBSD instead of upgrading the way they do for minor releases (e.g. upgrading from 12.0 to 12.1 is OK, but 11.3 to 12.0 requires a full backup and reinstall). The forums can be searched for upgrade troubles. Even if the upgrade problems are uncommon, people still experience them.
 
acheron said:
I never had to reinstall FreeBSD to perform an upgrade from 11 to 12.
Click to expand...

Debian using `apt dist-upgrade` upgrade to latest stable version.

Fedora using `dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=31` upgrade to fedora 31.

TrueOS and PacBSD also want to use package to manage the entire OS.
 
Are you talking about an alias ?

If not, each time I try to upgrade a major version on ubuntu, it break my system.
The major reason to have two tools, for me is if ypu have only one tool, you didn't have the needs of stable ABI and strong documentation.
Because a patch in the system side can fix a bad implementation in user side.
After 10 years, you will inherit a mess that will break userland when you make kernel update without warning or documentation.
It is one of major reason that each time I can, I choose Freebsd.
 
acheron said:
I never had to reinstall FreeBSD to perform an upgrade from 11 to 12.
Click to expand...
That's fair. I haven't experienced issues myself as I just started with the 12.1-RELEASE, so I'm just parroting what I've heard from some who experienced upgrades to different major releases gone wrong. 😅
 
zoujiaqing said:
I think FreeBSD's kernel dependency some software, and there software introduced into the FreeBSD kernel source code repo? Who are these software patches for maintenance?

The way the package depends on the package can completely solve the situation.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I could not understand this message. What depends on what? What was introduced? Please explain this again with more detail.
 
So you want to introduce some software into which source code repo? Into the main one for base (which for example contains the kernel)? In that case I don't see a versioning or dependency problem, and that whole repo changes in lockstep as one unit.
 
zoujiaqing said:
I'm sorry. I mean is import 3rd source code to FreeBSD source code repo.
Click to expand...

Gentoo Linux and Arch Linux copy the idea from FreeBSD to have a clean and deterministic "base".

In many ways, this organisation performs better than having an amateur clusterfluck of packages spammed everywhere.
This should hopefully help to satiate your desire to use a different operating system than FreeBSD.
 
New question!

I don't using freebsd-update to upgrade 13-CURRENT kernel. But, using `package base` be can upgrade kernel from pkg!
 
New question!

I can't using `pkg install clang10` to install clang latest version.(FreeBSD kernel source code include clang 8.x source code?)
But, `package base` can be to install it.
 
zoujiaqing said:
New question!

I can't using `pkg install clang10` to install clang latest version.(FreeBSD kernel source code include clang 8.x source code?)
But, `package base` can be to install it.
Click to expand...

Clang is part of the llvm project. The command would be

Code: 
# pkg install llvm10
# pkg install llvm9
# pkg install llvm8
# pkg install llvmX

[ports] Index of /head/devel/llvm10

svnweb.freebsd.org svnweb.freebsd.org

You might want to refer to your previous thread about this: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/add-clang-9-and-10-compilers-to-pkg.74221/
 
kpedersen said:
Clang is part of the llvm project. The command would be

Code: 
# pkg install llvm10
# pkg install llvm9
# pkg install llvm8
# pkg install llvmX

[ports] Index of /head/devel/llvm10

svnweb.freebsd.org svnweb.freebsd.org

You might want to refer to your previous thread about this: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/add-clang-9-and-10-compilers-to-pkg.74221/
Click to expand...
Thank you!

I don't using freebsd-update to upgrade 13-CURRENT kernel. But, using `package base` be can upgrade kernel from pkg!

I think package base can be to resolve this question.
 
20-100-2fe said:
zoujiaqing, in your first posts on this forum, you already seemed to expect FreeBSD to be a Linux clone. If what you want is Linux, why are you losing your time with FreeBSD? Stick with Linux, it is _already_ exactly as you want.
Click to expand...
I believe that the FreeBSD community should not be all backward people like you.

The right development roud way:
Code: 
ports -> pkd_add -> pkg-ng -> package base!

I think the core idea of UNIX is simplicity. I think FreeBSD should have these qualities.

Only use `pkg` to replace `ports + freebsd-update + pkg` is simplicity.
 
zoujiaqing said:
I believe that the FreeBSD community should not be all backward people like you.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we all are and probably will never change XD.

Again, if you want new prototype ideas and gimmicks with no stability, then this really isn't the place for that. Unless you can implement them yourself and do an extremely good job of convincing others that your system is in fact much better. In which case the development mailing list would be a better medium than these forums.

Besides, a concept of "base" is a key component for simplicity. Did you know, some people use FreeBSD without using anything from ports / packages? Their entire solution keeps to just what is inside base.

Eliminating packages increases the ability for deterministic installs.
 
Base packages updates have broken my Debian machines on several occasions in the past.
Over time, Debian has greatly improved on this point, but with any Linux distribution, base system updates/upgrades are still a cause of annoyances, differing in nature depending on the distribution.
I'm happy FreeBSD separates ports from base!
 
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