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KDE Plasma 5

alie

Aspiring Daemon

Thanks: 54
Messages: 579

#1
Hi,

Is there any update for KDE Plasma 5 under FreeBSD? This KDE release looks cool really.

Thanks in advance
 

retrogamer

Member

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Messages: 72

#3
beastDemian said:
Plasma 5 was just released. There are barely a few Linux distros that have packages available.

PC-BSD's area 51 repositroy shows that we are at least up to version 4.13 ( http://src.mouf.net/area51/browse/trunk/area51/KDE ). I'd love to see KDE5, though, but it requires a bunch of QT5 stuff. I don't know how far from it are we.
Even more annoying, as KDE5 relates to Wayland,
Breaking News: kwin_wayland will hard runtime depend on logind
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+MartinGr%C ... w31EE21BXV
It doesn't seem to be in doubt, Eric Hameleers from Slackware Linux says in the comments:
For Slackware (which will not adopt systemd for as long as we can avoid it) this would mean that we will not support KDE under Wayland. I mean, it would not be sensible to run another window manager in KDE. We could just as well switch to LXQT then.

Note that I do not have any issue with Wayland, but it is also not part of Slackware. If the KWin team can avoid adding a hard dep on systemd components for their X11 libraries then that would be good news.
Personally, I'm just waiting for PC-BSD's Lumina to mature a bit, I'm glad there is going to be a BSD-centric Qt DE outside of KDE going forward.
 
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fernandel

Well-Known Member

Thanks: 68
Messages: 455

#4
Personally, I'm just waiting for PC-BSD's Lumina to mature a bit, I'm glad there is going to be a BSD-centric Qt DE outside of KDE going forward.
I like and I use Lumina almost all the time. I like to update but there are no in the FreeBSD ports yet.
 
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Crivens

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#5
retrogamer said:
Even more annoying, as KDE5 relates to Wayland,
Breaking News: kwin_wayland will hard runtime depend on logind
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+MartinGr%C ... w31EE21BXV
<voice=kosh> "And so it begins..." </voice>

So it seems that wayland and KDE will become a no-go for anything but Linux. KDE5 looks smooth indeed, and I was looking forward to wayland also. But this decision is entering the slippery slope of fencing yourself in. I'd wager that it soon will also creep over to kwin for all, but who would take that bet?

Does anyone know what the reason for this is?
 

BSDBernd

Active Member

Thanks: 15
Messages: 148

#6
Wow, KDE Plasma 5 looks amazing ....
I want to have that :) ...

(Edit: Although, I also look forward for a usable x11/lumina version. Why always porting things from the Linux world? Why not develop a nice FreeBSD desktop environment so that they have to port it? :))
 
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beastDemian

Member

Thanks: 10
Messages: 48

#8
retrogamer said:
It doesn't seem to be in doubt, Eric Hameleers from Slackware Linux says in the comments:

For Slackware (which will not adopt systemd for as long as we can avoid it) this would mean that we will not support KDE under Wayland. I mean, it would not be sensible to run another window manager in KDE. We could just as well switch to LXQT then.

Note that I do not have any issue with Wayland, but it is also not part of Slackware. If the KWin team can avoid adding a hard dep on systemd components for their X11 libraries then that would be good news.
Wow, I'm amazed about the number of things in the linux world that are starting to be more and more dependent on systemd components. I don't know how much about Graesslin's claim that "logind was the only solution" is actually true and how much is actually just not wanting to look for a better solution.

They didn't just leave their non-linux userbase out in the cold with this decision, but also some of the linuxes that want to avoid touching systemd as much as possible.
It seems he went with the straightforward solution, and then said in the comments that those who are excluded by this solution should send patches, basically the only official support as of now is for the linux distros that are willing to jump on Leenart's bandwagon.

retrogamer said:
Personally, I'm just waiting for PC-BSD's Lumina to mature a bit, I'm glad there is going to be a BSD-centric Qt DE outside of KDE going forward.
From what I understand it's still in pre-alpha state, and I so far I haven't seen any screenshots of how a Lumina desktop looks. But it would be nice to leave the linux bloat behind.
 

phoenix

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#9
If you actually read Martin's G+ thread about that post, you'd see that he's just trolling people. There aren't any hard dependencies on systemd in KWin 5.
 

retrogamer

Member

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Messages: 72

#10
I'm not sure why he did that, oh well. I don't think the thread was up when I saw that, it was all over G+ as soon as it was posted. I could be wrong, and he did get Eric Hameleers as well, which is why I took it at face value. Just to clarify for anyone else who reads this, here is his statement about the logind dependency in that thread (it is a dependency, just not as important as that pseudo-trolling headline made it out to be):

Although the post is tabloid style it carried quite some information. I explicitly restricted to kwin_wayland. This implies that kwin_x11 is not affected. It also doesn't mean anything for other KDE software or Plasma. It's just kwin_wayland.

Second of all it says "runtime depend on logind". Notice that it doesn't say systemd, it's logind. And runtime depend indicates that it's only interacting with the DBus interface provided by logind. I don't understand how people could think that this means systemd as an init system is demanded given that there is a large distribution using logind without systemd.

Now why does kwin_wayland need to use logind's dbus interfaces? It's quite simple: I started integrating libinput into kwin_wayland and run into the obvious problem that one needs to be privileged to open the input devices. Running kwin_wayland with suid bit is a no-option, going to complicated wrappers is a no-option. Logind on the other hand allows the session controller to take a device and opens it for the session controller and returns the file descriptor. In addition it notifies whether the session is active. This is exactly what we need: it manages the device files in a secure way and we get notified when we need to suspend/resume the device files.

Obviously the required dbus interface could easily be provided without requiring logoind. I myself implemented a fake logind service for unit tests in the screen locker daemon and I will move that fake logind also to kwin to properly unit test that code. So this is possible.

And now how important is the dependency. Well I called it a "hard runtime dependency" which means that I consider kwin_wayland to have deficits if not used. Nevertheless the complete code is in an ifdef section (libinput is an optional build dependency) and there is even a command line option to disable libinput in kwin_wayland. kwin_x11 does not even try to use it. But yes if you want to use kwin_wayland in a Wayland session you will only get the full experience with libinput and the required logind integration used in KWin's libinput module.

The solution I picked will work for the large majority of our user base without introducing security risks. If there are other solutions which would provide us the same I'm happy to take patches, though I'm not interested in complicating the code base.
https://plus.google.com/+MartinGr%C3%A4%C3%9Flin/posts
 

beastDemian

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Messages: 48

#11
phoenix said:
If you actually read Martin's G+ thread about that post, you'd see that he's just trolling people. There aren't any hard dependencies on systemd in KWin 5.
There is a dependency on logind, which is a part of systemd.

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Softwar ... md/logind/

I don't know how much it does matter to us anyway, since we would have to code arround whatever linux-specific solution they ended up going with.
 

BSDBernd

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Messages: 148

#12
It seems that there is already a version 5.0.1 KDE plasma 5 available ready for building.
On the following page, one finds the source and some explanations.
http://www.kde.org/info/plasma-5.0.1.php
Some people say that KDE plasma 5 is very fast.
Which of the packages listed there on that source page are problematic to build?
At the moment I have no extra computer for experiments (and to possibly kill by experimenting :) ), I really would like to build that thing :).
 

phoenix

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#13
beastDemian said:
phoenix said:
If you actually read Martin's G+ thread about that post, you'd see that he's just trolling people. There aren't any hard dependencies on systemd in KWin 5.
There is a dependency on logind, which is a part of systemd.

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Softwar ... md/logind/

I don't know how much it does matter to us anyway, since we would have to code arround whatever linux-specific solution they ended up going with.
Ah, but they're not depending on systemd, they're using the logind d-bus interface, so anything that provides that interface will work. And he specifically mentions a distro doing just that: providing logind d-bus interface without having any systemd bit installed on the system.
 

beastDemian

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#15
phoenix said:
Ah, but they're not depending on systemd, they're using the logind d-bus interface, so anything that provides that interface will work. And he specifically mentions a distro doing just that: providing logind d-bus interface without having any systemd bit installed on the system.
You're right, I seemed to have missed that part. I didn't read his following G+ post in detail.
 

ucsdboy

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Messages: 28

#16
Personally, I'd rather have a mature KDE4 with all the little corner-cases fixed, than start over with KDE5. KDE4 is pretty nice by itself, and I hear that 4.13 onward got rid of Nepomuk.
 

PacketMan

Aspiring Daemon

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#19
(Why always porting things from the linux world? Why not develop a nice FreeBSD desktop environment so that they have to port it? :))
I agree. I would love to see "made for FreeBSD' GUIs. PC-BSD is a good start, but really would like to be to download and install 'native' FreeBSD GUI's. I'd even like to see FreeBSD pre-packaged downloads available. I.e the .iso (for example) installs the OS, the GUI, and other items inside that package. Or maybe during the install, you select the items you want. As much as I enjoy learning how to 'install' a port or package after the OS has been installed, sometimes time and life gets in the way of time and life, and I would like to (sometimes) spend less time playing with the under-the-bonnet code and more time doing stuff with the OS. Would love to see more downloadable 'appliance model packages'. Maybe in a year or two I can help with this.
 
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xibo

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Messages: 389

#21
Baloo is supposed to replace nepomuk AFAIK, but as things are right now on KDE 4.x, you'll need both instead.

Also, area51 (linked in the second post of this thread) has had KDE-4.14.3 for over a month now, but it seems there's too little feedback about it so it's merge to ports is being delayed.

T.C. Berner has written some KDE-5 ports which are available on https://github.com/tcberner/kde5 (kde@freebsd.org announcement on http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-freebsd/2014-December/018578.html ). These will likely be pulled into area51 soon but it might again take alot of testing and modifications before they get into PORTS.

Again, area51 (as any other of our testing repositories) is always looking for testers. At this time we're also looking on feedback for T.C. Berner's ports.