Internet must remain free!!! STOP ACTA!

Sorry but is impossible to do not post this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=63JyXmu0fqM

INTERNET MUST REMAIN FREE!!!
SOPA, PIPA, NOW ACTA!!!!
FIGHT!!!! YOUR PRIVACY IS DYING, YOUR FREEDOM IS DYING. INTERNET IS DYING. RESIST!!!!!!!!! INSIST!!!!!!
POST THIS, UPLOAD THIS, LINK THIS, EVERYWHERE!!!!
EVERYONE MUST KNOW! HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW!!!!!
HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND INTERNET!!! FOR ME, FOR YOU, FOR ALL OF AS!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Oh bother and poppycock. I see the same thing in that video that I see everywhere else. It professes to agree that copyright protection is good then goes on to say they don't think anyone should get in trouble for infringing a copyright and they, then, define copyright infringement as giving a lollipop to a baby. I might be exaggerating but so are they.

Almost everything I see and read about SOPA/PIPA and now ACTA is people jumping on a bandwagon without paying attention. I agree that all those bills are not well thought out and need input from tech companies and not politicians, but their heart is in the right place and that is to extend copyright and trademark protection to the internet. In that sense, SOPA/PIPA/ACTA are good things.

To further educate people on all this, I've joined a group called PEEING. I don't think that's an acronym.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
Oh bother and poppycock. I see the same thing in that video that I see everywhere else. It professes to agree that copyright protection is good then goes on to say they don't think anyone should get in trouble for infringing a copyright and they, then, define copyright infringement as giving a lollipop to a baby. I might be exaggerating but so are they.

Almost everything I see and read about SOPA/PIPA and now ACTA is people jumping on a bandwagon without paying attention. I agree that all those bills are not well thought out and need input from tech companies and not politicians, but their heart is in the right place and that is to extend copyright and trademark protection to the internet. In that sense, SOPA/PIPA/ACTA are good things.

To further educate people on all this, I've joined a group called PEEING. I don't think that's an acronym.

Since the failure to sell to the public SOPA/PIPA we can see if ACTA goes through. If that doesn't they will be working on PCIP which might get a better response as it's name is a better FUD strawman.

I downloaded SOPA and read some of it. Really had very little to do with protecting the interests of artists.

Sad things is the corporations that benefit from this will eventually get it through. As with anything in our newspeak style society they would probably spend 10 years worth of profits lobbying to insure they stay in power and musicians will have to go back to the 'pay to play' structure with less opportunities to take advantage of the current world wide distribution model which currently removes the long in the tooth greed centered middle men.

There is also a foundation being put in place for the current adoption of ebook reading devices. The current model being put in place also removes the lion's share from the author and places in the hands of the distributor. I imagine as time goes on and that becomes "accepted" there will be more and more DIY publishing for tech writers.

None the less we all know piracy will never be defeated. There will always be technical workarounds. I agree with you that their "hearts" where in the right place. Just as every politician is out to protect us from ourselves without any benefit to themselves or the third parties they actually own stock in and/or represent.

At least these bills have real acronyms vs something that bears no resemblance to it's actual name such as the patriot act.
 
UNIXgod said:
Since the failure to sell to the public SOPA/PIPA we can see if ACTA goes through.

We tried to stop that shit at Poland and we failed, our fscked up 'government' sign ACTA on 2012/01/26 at Japan, along with other 22 countries from Europe.

Here are manifests from my city:
http://youtu.be/An9faG1mH1M

If You want to check more, just type 'poland acta' into youtube searchbox.

Along with Anonymous, many polish governtment site were diabled or hacked, that also did not help ... the last thing we can do is to abandon our government which probably will not be that easy.

The democracy is just a myth today, the current political system on the world is moneycration ...
 
UNIXgod said:
Really had very little to do with protecting the interests of artists.
That is rarely the intent of anti-piracy organisations and/or politicians meddling with things they don't understand. The most unfortunate thing is that most artists are not astute enough to realise that and to fight for their own interests.

Illegal reproduction of copyrighted materials is pretty much as old as the cassette tape. Only back in those days piracy was usually limited to family, friends, co-workers/fellow-students and other such closed circles (but we've all done it, be honest). The Internet changed all that and people from Oslo can now happily exchange copyrighted materials with people from Buenos Aires whom they don't know and have never even met.

The practice itself remains as illegal as ever, but technology seems to have developed to a point where it gets very hard to prevent it from happening. Ban one protocol and another one gets developed. Ban the Pirate Bay and another site comes up. Plus "organisations" such as Anonymous will attack you. Try to pass legislation in one country and it soon becomes apparent that the Internet as a whole is difficult (if at all possible) to legislate globally. This is an even bigger problem for the U.S., who are often accused (justified or not, that's another discussion) of trying to police the whole world.

In my opinion the key point is not in legislation but in moving from the conventional business models to something new. For example: the film industry may complain but doesn't suffer as much from piracy as the music industry does. Why? Because movie DVDs are affordable (maybe less so when they're brand spanking new, but that diminishes quickly) and people are still willing to buy theatre tickets to see the movie in a cinema because those are affordable. Blockbuster movies make millions if not billions of revenue in their first few weeks alone, due to people buying theatre tickets and merchandise. The music industry, on the other hand, is sicker than a terminal cancer patient in their last days. Album CDs are already prohibitively expensive and concert tickets are almost unaffordable. Another problem is that movies usually only make sense as a whole. Music on the other hand is judged on a per-song basis and if a band/artist makes a crap album with one hit song, people are reluctant to buy the entire (expensive!) crap album just for that one cool song.

In the end, piracy is a crime, I won't deny that, but it's nigh-impossible to prevent from a technological point of view (see the cassette tape again). So in my opinion the order of business should be to develop a system that minimises the gain of piracy compared to legal purchase. Charging 10 euros or less for a cinema ticket works. Selling DVDs (with features and all) for 10 euros or less works. Charging 20 euros or more for a music CD does NOT work. Charging 100 euros for one lousy concert ticket certainly doesn't work. In my student days (with limited income!) I've seen the Stones, I've seen Bon Jovi, I've seen Kiss, I've seen Mark Knopfler (post Dire Straits) etc. But nowadays I don't go to concerts anymore. Not because I'm becoming an old fart, but because tickets are getting more and more expensive.

The industry - and particularly the music industry - needs to rethink things. Piracy cannot be prevented completely, that's a technological reality. But the trick is to make it as little profitable compared to the real deal as possible. The film industry knows where to go. The music industry doesn't want to follow because the record companies only care about money, not the artists. And the artists are not astute enough to see that they are basically being exploited for the profits of greedy, selfish and self-perpetuating leviathans.

Fonz
 
sk8harddiefast said:
The third global war is coming! Not for water as we were believe but for Internet!

acta.jpg

Say NO to ACTA here!!!
http://www.avaaz.org/en/eu_save_the_internet/
https://www.accessnow.org/page/s/just-say-no-to-acta
 
The sentence for the first guy has not happened yet but that inequality is an issue with the court system and not the bill itself.

I agree that the TV and film industry has their head up their butts when it comes to cost and distribution. Even sports leagues are all screwed up about this. I would gladly pay to watch my local teams over the 'net for a reasonable fee but, to show how stupid things are, it's something like $120 for a year long subscription to major league baseball, and they black out local games which forces you to subscribe to cable TV if you want to watch them. Worse, I owned some property out in the country but inside their regional zone which means I couldn't watch it there either but I couldn't pick up any local TV stations that carried it and cable TV was unavailable.

It's so bizarre that it costs me $9 to go to the theatre to see a film but $20 to watch it on DVD. Netflix may not have it online so I have to be subscribed to the mailing service to get it. It's just not thought out at all.

How much money the film and music industry makes doesn't bother me. I understand it because I was in the film and TV industry for 10 years and my son's a professional actor. I know how much putting these things together costs. It's the distribution and access at a reasonable price that drives me up the wall. If the people in charge could just get into the 21st century, they could make far more than they do now with the current model.

For example, major league baseball had only about 25 games on television or less not too long ago. Attendance at games could be as low as 5000 on average. But now all games are televised, ticket prices are higher, and attendance at many parks, specifically ours, are near sellouts every game.

Speaking of my son, I have to go pick him up from a play he's directing in Chicago.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
It's so bizarre that it costs me $9 to go to the theatre to see a film but $20 to watch it on DVD.
Just one quick response to avoid misunderstandings (I'll look at the rest tomorrow):
Here in the Netherlands movie tickets are approximately 10 euros; sometimes a bit less, sometimes a bit more, but it's a fairly accurate average. Movie DVDs are usually about 20 euros when they're really brand-spanking new but often drop to 10 euros or less after a short while.

Fonz
 
vermaden said:
Probably the reason why MegaUpload had been shutdown:
Not true at all. Interesting that article doesn't give the details. There was an established music star/publisher who was talking to Dotcom about going 'legit' and establishing a distribution service similar to what I mention above. That music star obviously is already involved with the music industry so he's be competing with himself. I don't recall that person's name but I think it was in the NYTimes article when the story broke.
 
Here is an interesting read regarding some of the legal questions involved in the case: http://www.granick.com/blog/?p=739.

I've never used megaupload, so I'm not exactly clear what's going on, but this is what I'm guessing. The actually owners didn't post copyrighted material, but provided a venue for others to do so and didn't do much (anything?) to stop them.

Setting aside many questions about the state of copyright law, jurisdiction, etc., I (with absolutely no background in law) fail to see significant differences between this and handgun manufacturers being responsible for crimes involving their guns.
 
It's a tough question when the rights of creators (those representing them?) and the community as a whole are misaligned. Most seem to agree that blatantly stealing others creative work is morally wrong. Many of us also agree that the proposed solutions are oppressive.

I guess my statement was intended to be a bit provocative to continue the discussion. Surely you could poke holes in my pseudo-logic. Was megaupload created exclusively to aid others to steal? Are handguns manufactured exclusively to illegally harm others?

When I'm in an optimistic mood I hope that more people will become bored with the hollywood/billboard pop culture and the demand will erode and we'll be done with the RIAA/MPAA.

drhowarddrfine said:
Almost everything I see and read about SOPA/PIPA and now ACTA is people jumping on a bandwagon without paying attention.

@dr, you've likely heard from him before, but here is a some information on the subject from a qualified guy who is certainly not on a bandwagon. http://www.michaelgeist.ca/
 
jrm said:
...
Setting aside many questions about the state of copyright law, jurisdiction, etc., I (with absolutely no background in law) fail to see significant differences between this and handgun manufacturers being responsible for crimes involving their guns.

More appropriate would IMHO be the comparison to the toll booth operating company, the railway company, FedEx, ... anyone who provides transport service for money for the drugs being shiped by them without their knowledge.
 
sk8harddiefast

Please stop using caps-lock.
Also sorry for writing no info & thoughts into the thread: I do not want to have my opinion based on opinion of the people I do not know, who's opinion is based on opinion of the people who them do not know which may be (and only may be) is based on the opinion of a man with legal (don't know the right word for it) education & huge knowledge on world of law.


Also I see much, much more trouble and 1984 (mindcrimes, etc) in this: Man Who Downloaded Bomb Recipes Jailed For 2 Years
 
I've seen that gun comparison before but you are supposed to have a license to carry a gun.
Crivens said:
More appropriate would IMHO be the comparison to the toll booth operating company, the railway company, FedEx, ... anyone who provides transport service for money for the drugs being shiped by them without their knowledge.

Without their knowledge is key. Megaupload was certainly aware.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
Without their knowledge is key. Megaupload was certainly aware.
As is a ferry company, a train company or the postal service that their services are being used to commit serious crimes. MU provides a service which, in itself, is not illegal.

You want to share your vacation pictures with the family but do not have a server? Use a hoster. This is perfectly legal use. The question is, how much illegal use is tolerated.
And as long as this is not answered, things like MU will be used to introduce laws for communication tracking.
 
Crivens said:
As is a ferry company, a train company or the postal service that their services are being used to commit serious crimes. MU provides a service which, in itself, is not illegal.
If the ferry company, et al, were aware they were transporting stuff to commit crimes, you can be sure there would be all kinds of hell coming down on them. Like I said, MU was aware what they were doing and all kinds of hell came down on them.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
If the ferry company, et al, were aware they were transporting stuff to commit crimes, you can be sure there would be all kinds of hell coming down on them. Like I said, MU was aware what they were doing and all kinds of hell came down on them.

But is it justified to prosecute MegaUpload for providing, in itself, a legal service? Why can't we simply pursue those that actually committed the crimes? That's what we do with handguns. I think the answer is that it's simply too difficult.

Maybe a handgun manufacturer can't be certain that one specific gun will commit a crime, but we can be sure that some proportion of their guns will be used to commit much more serious crimes than distributing bits of information.
 
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