Installing FreeBSD is turning out to be a nightmare

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Insomniac

Installing FreeBSD is interesting... download dvd image, check checksum, all good. Burn it to a dvd+rw and verify write using K3B on Linux, all good.
Try to install it on an actual pc, it complains about md5 checksums not being what they need to be to install.

Installing Linux on the same pc works just fine using the same dvd drive, so the dvd drive malfunctioning is unlikely.
Many Linux distributions give you the option at boot time to verify the boot medium, but I'm not aware of any that do during the install process.

If it's a required step, it needs to work always, or drop the requirement. Giving users the option to verify their install medium is great.
Requiring it does not have to be a problem, but it needs to work always if the device is not defective.

In my case I've verified the download, verified the write to dvd+rw disc, and I know the dvd drive on the machine I'm trying to install on is not defective.

So what is going on here where FreeBSD is refusing to install? Why does it check integrity of the medium during install like no other operating system in existence? All of my due diligence shows no errors on the medium used, yet the FreeBSD installer insists on aborting installing because of md5 checksums.

Using FreeBSD-13.1-RELEASE-amd64-dvd1.iso written to a DVD+RW as the install medium to be specific. Trying to install to a 256GB SSD on a 6th Gen Intel system.

I've never seen an operating system this difficult to install as a system administrator. Even experimental ones are not this bad. Linux from scratch is easier than figuring out than this nightmare fuel.
 
Why would you use a DVD instead of a USB Stick with a memstick image? I bet your burner as well as your dvds are ancient.
Also: The media check definitely isn't mandatory.

Insomniac said:
I've never seen an operating system this difficult to install
Click to expand...
It really isn't. The installer comes with about 4 or 5 dialogs. Pretty much like any other Linux distro.
You pretty much setup your boot drive, keyboard and network.
Are you perhaps using ancient or otherwise exotic hardware?
Try it with a memstick image on a USB Stick.
Insomniac said:
as a system administrator.
Click to expand...
The fact that you tried it with a DVD only and then took the time to rant on a forum makes me wonder what kind of admin you are *scnr*
But seriously, try it via USB Stick and have an irssi session running on #freebsd@libera.chat for problems that arise, I'm sure you'll get it running. 🙂👍
 
It'd be over a decade since I installed anything with a CD/DVD. You'd be one of very few people actually end-to-ending that process I would expect.

Like Skull said Give it another go with a memory stick, your 256GB SSD on a 6th Gen Intel system should cope.

Failing that run though an install in a VM so you can see what it's like without the hardware problems (but be prepared for different problems...)
 
I'm waiting to see if we ever hear from Insomniac again or this is just another troll post.

If not, sorry, but are you Insomniac following the Handbook or just winging it. If you are winging it or trying to follow online tutorials, then you are just guessing.

It doesn't matter if he's using a DVD or not. That's not the issue.

I'm wondering if the issue is, as it is most of the time, he's trying to make FreeBSD work just like Linux. fwiw, I have never been able to install any Linux distro (Arch, Gentoo) except Ubuntu without hours and days of searching for solutions cause it just won't install. And I follow their web site install instructions.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
It doesn't matter if he's using a DVD or not. That's not the issue.
Click to expand...
It might be. An old writer writing to an old DVD is definitely error prone.
drhowarddrfine said:
I have never been able to install any Linux distro (Arch, Gentoo) except Ubuntu without hours and days of searching for solutions cause it just won't install
Click to expand...
Oh come on. Even arch was a piece of cake to install almost two decades ago.
(Maintaining it was another story)
I'm assuming that this statement was simply made up.
 
Insomniac said:
Installing FreeBSD is interesting... download dvd image, check checksum, all good. Burn it to a dvd+rw and verify write using K3B on Linux, all good.
Click to expand...

I'll play.

Assuming burned to DVD as an image, not an ISO file ...

On linux, can you mount the DVD as a cd9660 image?

When you do, can you
cd $mountpoint/usr/freebsd-dist
and list the set of distribution files (*.txz)?

Can you cat the MANIFEST?

Insomniac said:
Try to install it on an actual pc, it complains about md5 checksums not being what they need to be to install.
Click to expand...

They're not md5, but SHA256.

# sha256 base.txz

Does that match MANIFEST?

Make sure they all do.

If not, please report the mismatched output here.

If so, you have some other problem altogether.
 
SKull said:
It might be. An old writer writing to an old DVD is definitely error prone.
Click to expand...
People here are replying, asking him why he's using a DVD. That's not the point. If he wants to use a DVD, so be it.

SKull said:
Oh come on. Even arch was a piece of cake to install almost two decades ago.
Click to expand...
It's been a few years but following their web site instructions would never get a proper install. And I can install FreeBSD from scratch, without the installer, in 10 minutes. The same is true for Gentoo. One, or both of them, forces you to bounce all over their site to install depending on how you want to do it...and then you lose your place. Worst instructions ever.
 
I installed FreeBSD 12.3 the other day from a DVD and it worked well (Slightly old rack server just before the era of reliable USB booting.)

The only annoyance I can say is that the DVD and CD image both require a DVD these days (>700MB). I am slightly surprised that the kernel, base and installation scripts cannot fit on to a CD.

Luckily it *did* have a DVD drive or I would have had to install it manually.
 
I am also still depending on dvd for install. Has never let me down. The couple of times I used a usb stick. Ouchh. Could not boot, destroyed the memstcik. So I prefer to use what I know works.

Do not shame on other people, that are doing things in a way you would not do. Because then YOU are the troll. By that I mean behaving in an evil and bad way. Behave well and be kind to others, then they will be that as well to you.
 
larshenrikoern said:
Because then YOU are the troll.
Click to expand...
of course.

That's why I wrote "warning" - not "alarm".
Participating this forum for a while shows every couple of weeks someone making a provocant statement - it looks like a question, but it actually differs from a real question, even if someone newb is frustrated.

Most people here are very helpful - want to help, want people especially newbs get into FreeBSD.
So immediatly many answers and questions are made, to help.

But you will never see the OP again.
If I am wrong, and this is a real question (which I doubt very much, since nearly all questioners are back short term, and participate within their own threads, and the title is already a provocant catcher, would not put it this way, if DVD or Netinstall would be the point)

I hereby excuse me for making a wrong suggestion.

But if not, again there is a good chance that we see 2,3,... pages of
Pro-FreeBSDlers brawling each other about something stupid some else has started.
Example:
tux2bsd already insulted drhowarddrfine to be "a liar" for nothing (again).
This is just senseless wasted energy.
One cannot prevent trolls, really.
But one can become aware of it and stop wasting energy on that.

And that's why this was my last post in this thread.

I already did an preventive excuse - but I think I will be right.

peace out.
 
smithi said:
I'll play.

Assuming burned to DVD as an image, not an ISO file ...

On linux, can you mount the DVD as a cd9660 image?

When you do, can you
cd $mountpoint/usr/freebsd-dist
and list the set of distribution files (*.txz)?

Can you cat the MANIFEST?



They're not md5, but SHA256.

# sha256 base.txz

Does that match MANIFEST?

Make sure they all do.

If not, please report the mismatched output here.

If so, you have some other problem altogether.
Click to expand...
The disc can be mounted on a Linux machine and the sha256 checksums all look normal.

x@x-MS-7D31:/media/x/13_1_RELEASE_AMD64_DVD/usr/freebsd-dist$ ls ; cat MANIFEST ; sha256sum *.txz
base-dbg.txz base.txz kernel-dbg.txz kernel.txz lib32-dbg.txz lib32.txz MANIFEST ports.txz src.txz tests.txz
base-dbg.txz eaedd489d7880a8268210c028f326b9549c6cdba97018ed8494a5e9ac63c701b 1656 base_dbg "Base system (Debugging)" off
base.txz 565baf7cf520cedfa01c5260f6a614b71c5e2b37ba3ee22e1342906548aa24ad 27071 base "Base system (MANDATORY)" on
kernel-dbg.txz 26783db89530d3b9b512dbd3e7fc9b71a14827acd51cbcf866f947c5412a6a2f 846 kernel_dbg "Kernel (Debugging)" on
kernel.txz add331bba9eb45fc0350ad14682538c14d44786d7c4fedadd97a71905db66a44 857 kernel "Kernel (MANDATORY)" on
lib32-dbg.txz 5d2a0a63693cd3f32eca1c26d9a3c2c36fa57620455a7d629b4e27662c5318a9 247 lib32_dbg "32-bit compatibility libraries (Debugging)" off
lib32.txz 26001a4847cbf242b7bf0e6f9660dfb4115512418bfdc0c8d938a028635ed98b 1034 lib32 "32-bit compatibility libraries" on
ports.txz bc77e652e1021bbeb71bec98816c5964a04b8c32d12f6e30670ba6f9e3d38af6 184427 ports "Ports tree" off
src.txz b2acdda53269d66d0438d65d808488660375af73679db89d0052169a11f9b24e 95871 src "System source tree" off
tests.txz 9f50a6ba9e6d1778cd549a60040434b443b21e914d78094584bba58ad323039c 6826 tests "Test suite" off
eaedd489d7880a8268210c028f326b9549c6cdba97018ed8494a5e9ac63c701b base-dbg.txz
565baf7cf520cedfa01c5260f6a614b71c5e2b37ba3ee22e1342906548aa24ad base.txz
26783db89530d3b9b512dbd3e7fc9b71a14827acd51cbcf866f947c5412a6a2f kernel-dbg.txz
add331bba9eb45fc0350ad14682538c14d44786d7c4fedadd97a71905db66a44 kernel.txz
5d2a0a63693cd3f32eca1c26d9a3c2c36fa57620455a7d629b4e27662c5318a9 lib32-dbg.txz
26001a4847cbf242b7bf0e6f9660dfb4115512418bfdc0c8d938a028635ed98b lib32.txz
bc77e652e1021bbeb71bec98816c5964a04b8c32d12f6e30670ba6f9e3d38af6 ports.txz
b2acdda53269d66d0438d65d808488660375af73679db89d0052169a11f9b24e src.txz
9f50a6ba9e6d1778cd549a60040434b443b21e914d78094584bba58ad323039c tests.txz

sha256 checksum of the downloaded iso:
x@x-MS-7D31:~$ sha256sum /Data/Software/Operating\ Systems/FreeBSD\ 13.1RELEASE\ 2022-05-16/FreeBSD-13.1-RELEASE-amd64-dvd1.iso
5b29c2cd5a604ad24810c994027ec13c9efc53778a307831f6181dfdaf02939f /Data/Software/Operating Systems/FreeBSD 13.1RELEASE 2022-05-16/FreeBSD-13.1-RELEASE-amd64-dvd1.iso

sha256 checksum from the freebsd download site:
https://download.freebsd.org/releas....1/CHECKSUM.SHA256-FreeBSD-13.1-RELEASE-amd64 contains the following line:
SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.1-RELEASE-amd64-dvd1.iso) = 5b29c2cd5a604ad24810c994027ec13c9efc53778a307831f6181dfdaf02939f

The disc also boots on the target machine. The issue appears during the installer where a root filesystem has been selected and it start to copy/extract files. At which point it complains about checksums not being valid.
 
I've installed Linux Mint 21 on the same target machine. Same hardware, same installation method, same dvd brand and type, but a different disc. No issues installing.
Now the machine has an operating system I've repeated the checksum test above using the dvd drive and problematic disc.

It shows read errors on the files, where as it does not in the machine that was used to burn the disc as shown above.

Tried reading a bunch of dvds and cds using dd if=/dev/sr0 of=/dev/null and watching dmesg for block device errors. Both original and burned discs. All 6 discs tried showed no errors. Including the one used to install Linux and others of the same brand and type. The disc used for FreeBSD did show errors.

The only conclusion I can come to is that the disc is within some kind of tolerance on one machine, but not the other. Burned another disc, same method, same brand and type. Tried reading it using dd again to see if any block device errors occur. No issues on either pc. Very unusual issue.

No issue installing FreeBSD using the second disc.

For science I've taken the offending disc and rewrote the iso to it. It verifies as correct on the machine writing the disc. No block device errors with dd if=/dev/sr0 of=/dev/null. Checksums are correct with the above test. Tried the disc again on the target machine. Block device errors again. There is some weird compatibility issue with this specific disc that others of the same brand and type do not have using the same dvd drives.
 
Ok folks. He is back. Might simply be someone with a family who has things to do on weekends. Like me, you know?

So be civil again, we have some faces here which need to wipe some egg off themselves... Do it!

As for the question: what is the brand/model of that DVD drive? Some need a lot of quirks, some don't. So if it is recognized as buggy firmware by linux, but not FreeBSD, then that might be it. Might simply be that with RW media to limit the speed because read errors would occur. The structure of RW is not nearly as crisp as a printed one. So maybe, for curiosity, put it into a USB drive, or switch the port to IDE in bios. I have one drive which needs this.
 
Crivens said:
As for the question: what is the brand/model of that DVD drive? Some need a lot of quirks, some don't. So if it is recognized as buggy firmware by linux, but not FreeBSD, then that might be it. Might simply be that with RW media to limit the speed because read errors would occur. The structure of RW is not nearly as crisp as a printed one. So maybe, for curiosity, put it into a USB drive, or switch the port to IDE in bios. I have one drive which needs this.
Click to expand...
DVD drive on the target machine shows Model=LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-832S, FwRev=VS01 according to hdparm -i on Linux.
It is a IDE model, not a SATA one.

Drive used to write media is a Model=ASUS BW-16D1HT, FwRev=3.10 again according to hdparm -i on Linux. SATA for this one.

DVD Write speed used was 4x for all discs, which was the default picked by the used writing software (K3B).
 
Insomniac said:
I've installed Linux Mint 21 on the same target machine. Same hardware, same installation method, same dvd brand and type, but a different disc. No issues installing.
Now the machine has an operating system I've repeated the checksum test above using the dvd drive and problematic disc.
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing thorough due diligence with the sha256 tests, and following through with testing - while under fire, which I note you've had the good manners to ignore.

Insomniac said:
It shows read errors on the files, where as it does not in the machine that was used to burn the disc as shown above.

Tried reading a bunch of dvds and cds using dd if=/dev/sr0 of=/dev/null and watching dmesg for block device errors. Both original and burned discs. All 6 discs tried showed no errors. Including the one used to install Linux and others of the same brand and type. The disc used for FreeBSD did show errors.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a real edge case alright. Just for reference, what brand/model discs?

Insomniac said:
The only conclusion I can come to is that the disc is within some kind of tolerance on one machine, but not the other. Burned another disc, same method, same brand and type. Tried reading it using dd again to see if any block device errors occur. No issues on either pc. Very unusual issue.
Click to expand...

Indeed. And while modern USB flash media are usually more reliable, I've had two fail recently after earller passing xz -tv, one a new 64G Lexar that works about every other time ...

Insomniac said:
No issue installing FreeBSD using the second disc.

For science I've taken the offending disc and rewrote the iso to it. It verifies as correct on the machine writing the disc. No block devices errors with dd if=/dev/sr0 of=/dev/null. Checksums are correct with the above test. Tried the disc again on the target machine. Block device errors again. There is some weird compatibility issue with this specific disc that others of the same brand and type do not have using the same dvd drives.
Click to expand...

Very annoying & non-digital.

So after all, you have 13.1 installed? Let me know if you want to use bsdconfig to install packages off the DVD, I have some patches to fix that, though not for gnome.
 
smithi said:
Sounds like a real edge case alright. Just for reference, what brand/model discs?

So after all, you have 13.1 installed? Let me know if you want to use bsdconfig to install packages off the DVD, I have some patches to fix that, though not for gnome.
Click to expand...
These discs are Nashua (Media Products) DVD+RW. Never had an issue before using these until this incident. Not only with these 2 systems but others as well. They aren't exactly a recent purchase, or used very often, but they have always worked reliably for many years now. In 20+ years of using optical media I have never encountered this specific issue before.

Yes it installed just fine. The intended purpose for this machine is simply to gain some experience with ZFS, see what the Linux compatibility of FreeBSD is like, and regain some lost knowledge as I haven't used BSD systems in about a decade. I'll be fine with packages now that I've resolved this weird issue.
 
tux2bsd said:
Crivens why are you trolling? I asked Insomniac a question, I'm not interested in your input (or your friend that keeps trying to change the subject).
Click to expand...
You are the one changing the subject. This thread is about why there is trouble installing via DVD. Suggesting installing via memory stick is OK. But insisting that anyone not doing it that way is in some way wrong is changing the subject.

Please behave. Your answers does not sound kind to others.
 
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larshenrikoern said:
You are the one changing the subject. This thread is about why there is trouble installing via DVD. Suggesting installing via memory stick is OK. But insisting that anyone not doing it that way is in some way wrong is changing the subject.
Click to expand...
No, I have not changed the subject.

This really shouldn't need spelling out: Trying with a memory stick achieves something, it verifies an install will work via another mechanism. He can install again with his DVD after that if he chooses... If it doesn't work with USB, it might not be just the DVD.

The other thing to try for similar reasons is an older, or newer, version of FreeBSD.

If those all fail, he might need to give FreeBSD a pass on that machine.

edit: It appears he has it installed (could be on another machine).
 
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