ZFS in general is ZFS > UFS for say normal torrent files and movies?

[azathoth]

I had some trouble with mutliple devices and zfs adn got spooked and went to ufs.

I have zfs root of 2 internal disks.

I have 1 5t ufs drive usb connected.

I also have 4t zfs usb connected [off now] but I forget the name of the volume group...how do I find that?

Also how do I mark a thread solved? My open files limit problem was resolved....not sure how was some temporary problem.

 

[getopt]

root@realfascism:~ #

democracy is fascism

I'm curious which forum members are willing to help a "real fascist" with his torrent and movies?

 

[linux->bsd]

I'm curious which forum members are willing to help a "real fascist" with his torrent and movies?

Is this forum's (and community's) purpose not to help other FreeBSD users? Would you withhold help from him if he was a Trump|Clinton supporter and you were not? Surely there are better places to take a principled stand for politics than here.

I had some trouble with mutliple devices and zfs adn got spooked and went to ufs.

I have zfs root of 2 internal disks.

I have 1 5t ufs drive usb connected.

I also have 4t zfs usb connected [off now] but I forget the name of the volume group...how do I find that?

Also how do I mark a thread solved? My open files limit problem was resolved....not sure how was some temporary problem.

1. zpool import will list available pools for import. /boot/zfs/zpool.cache contains cached details about available pools. Run zdb -CU /boot/zfs/zpool.cache to list its contents.

2. I think you can edit the title of your thread to mark it 'Solved.' Click on 'Thread Tools' (next to 'Unwatch Thread'), and select 'Edit Title.' It will offer a choice of prefix, from which you can select 'Solved.'

Edit: transposed 'bd' in 'zdb'.

 

[Snurg]

Surely there are better places to take a principled stand for politics than here.

I also am very political and I overlooked in the forum rules that here for good reasons politics are not desired. (maybe except IT related politics topics if at all)
It is only divisive in a pure technical forum like this one. Since I noticed this myself after a political statement, I try to refrain from even the slightest poltitical statement.

I myself asked why that hostname. Personally I do not care. But you see yourself, it irritates quite a few people.
Thus I would kindly ask you azathoth to anonymize the host name in posts. It is just too political for this forum.

 

[linux->bsd]

I also am very political and I overlooked in the forum rules that here for good reasons politics are not desired. (maybe except IT related politics topics if at all)
It is only divisive in a pure technical forum like this one. Since I noticed this myself after a political statement, I try to refrain from even the slightest poltitical statement.

I myself asked why that hostname. Personally I do not care. But you see yourself, it irritates quite a few people.
Thus I would kindly ask you azathoth to anonymize the host name in posts. It is just too political for this forum.

I agree completely, and agree with the way you've chosen to handle it: reminding azathoth of the forum rules and asking him to abide by them (by anonymizing his hostnames).

What I opposed was casting him off the island and refusing to help him.

 

[azathoth]

I'm curious which forum members are willing to help a "real fascist" with his torrent and movies?

Its a joke u know.
Communism failed in russia china etc but they say real communism hasn't been tried.
So someone on 4chan said hey real fascism hasn't been tried.
I thought hilarious.
I mean you can get phd about how communism is beter from princeton.
Which is wrong.
you tube yaron brook, ayn rand was always right about everything.
gr8 dep caused by gov, same as wars.
we would have thorium atomic power and unregualted housign with 100x lower price n rent if capitalism kept from 1800s when capitalism ended slavery.
slavery wasn't productive.

 

[azathoth]

I also am very political and I overlooked in the forum rules that here for good reasons politics are not desired. (maybe except IT related politics topics if at all)
It is only divisive in a pure technical forum like this one. Since I noticed this myself after a political statement, I try to refrain from even the slightest poltitical statement.

I myself asked why that hostname. Personally I do not care. But you see yourself, it irritates quite a few people.
Thus I would kindly ask you azathoth to anonymize the host name in posts. It is just too political for this forum.

Please find my explanation amusing and a catalog of beliefs I find useful.
See to me democracy IS fascism. I am for individual rights and property and 100% voluntary production and exchange.

 

[azathoth]

I agree completely, and agree with the way you've chosen to handle it: reminding azathoth of the forum rules and asking him to abide by them (by anonymizing his hostnames).

What I opposed was casting him off the island and refusing to help him.

oh cmon where is your sense fo fun?
Why would it even irritate anyone?
We all take in good cheer when people whear che shirts or talk about marx at college.

 

[Snurg]

Dear azathoth
we all know that "real democracy" is not "ideal democracy".

I also understand your criticism, because even a guy like John F. Kennedy, who for sure knew what he was talking about, and was by no means a conspiration theoretic, criticized "real democracy" by saying that he knows the 50 [extremely rich] people who determine what congress and senate will vote.

Please do keep in mind that in the origin of "democracy", ancient Athens, only people who paid a (very high) minimum of taxes of were allowed to vote at all. So in the ancient Athens "democracy" the vast majority of the population had no say.
Thus it is imho valid to say that "real democracy" is per original definition just a sort of fascism of the super-rich.

This is why I am not sure what you are really about politically, either a nazi or a radical democrat who is disgusted about "real democracy".
Please do us all forum users a favor and now stop the political things, before it gets really divisive.

Now I will report my own post, so the admin can delete a few posts or maybe even the whole thread. And maybe warn or ban me (hopefully not permanently) for violating paragraph 3 of the forums rules (no politics stuff) again.

 

[ralphbsz]

Independent of all the political nonsense (which I happen to ignore):

When you ask the question "Is ZFS > UFS for torrent and movies", you need to give us a lot more information.

First: What metric do you want to use to measure ">" versus "<" ??? Does it give you better performance? Sorry to disappoint you, but most file systems end up being disk-limited (they tend to not be the bottleneck) for common workloads, so the answer is likely to be "it doesn't matter". If any, performance differences on the same hardware with the same workload tend to be small, except for really unusual workloads (like metadata scans, or creating billions of zero-length files, or strided access, and other perverse things that don't often happen, but when they do it really hurts). Or do your metric want to be cost? Both are free. Ease of administration? Is in the eye of the beholder, whatever you are more experienced with. Reliability and availability? For that you really need RAID (built-in with ZFS, external but available with UFS), and checksums (in ZFS, not in UFS) so uncorrected read errors don't escalate. Backup and restore? Available utilities? In the end, the real-world practical differences will come more from the end of that list than from the beginning. So please tell us what you want out of your file system.

Second: When you say "torrent and movies", you need to give a lot more performance data. Are you just a normal desktop workstation, and are downloading one movie using a single torrent, and then watch it later with VLC? Or on the other extreme, are you trying to build a massive video server or download server for thousands of clients?

Third: What is your hardware base? There is an obvious difference between a Raspberry Pi (which I can hold in a single hand), and a supercomputer that requires multiple forklifts to install. Different file systems will be appropriate for different platforms.

 

[azathoth]

Independent of all the political nonsense (which I happen to ignore):

When you ask the question "Is ZFS > UFS for torrent and movies", you need to give us a lot more information.

First: What metric do you want to use to measure ">" versus "<" ??? Does it give you better performance? Sorry to disappoint you, but most file systems end up being disk-limited (they tend to not be the bottleneck) for common workloads, so the answer is likely to be "it doesn't matter". If any, performance differences on the same hardware with the same workload tend to be small, except for really unusual workloads (like metadata scans, or creating billions of zero-length files, or strided access, and other perverse things that don't often happen, but when they do it really hurts). Or do your metric want to be cost? Both are free. Ease of administration? Is in the eye of the beholder, whatever you are more experienced with. Reliability and availability? For that you really need RAID (built-in with ZFS, external but available with UFS), and checksums (in ZFS, not in UFS) so uncorrected read errors don't escalate. Backup and restore? Available utilities? In the end, the real-world practical differences will come more from the end of that list than from the beginning. So please tell us what you want out of your file system.

Second: When you say "torrent and movies", you need to give a lot more performance data. Are you just a normal desktop workstation, and are downloading one movie using a single torrent, and then watch it later with VLC? Or on the other extreme, are you trying to build a massive video server or download server for thousands of clients?

Third: What is your hardware base? There is an obvious difference between a Raspberry Pi (which I can hold in a single hand), and a supercomputer that requires multiple forklifts to install. Different file systems will be appropriate for different platforms.

6 core amd64 16g ram with usb external 5t drive torrenting 100 movies and role playing games and programming books

yeah probly doesnt matter.....what I need to do is figure out howto make the usb3 card work as usb3......external drive supports it and have blue usb3 ports but everything running usb2 speed....not sure if mobo is incompat or what....cant figure it out

 

[ralphbsz]

If your main workload is torrent downloading ~100 things, in a residential setting (not in a data center), your total file system throughput will be limited by the bandwidth of your network connection. Let that be 10 MBit/s or 10MByte/s, it is still way below the capability of a disk drive (which tends to be around 100-200 MByte/s). With your available CPU the file system itself will not be a bottleneck either (ZFS needs CPU power, and with a sub-GHz single core it might not be able to max out a disk drive, but that's not your problem).

If you have a problem getting your disk drive to work at USB-3 speed, that will most likely be the bottleneck. Although USB-2 at ~30 MByte/s is not all that bad. There have been many discussions of FreeBSD problems with USB-3, which I have ignored (for lack of need so far), so I have no knowledge in getting this to work. A search here might help. Again, that's independent of which file system you use.

In your environment, with light workloads, the real question of whether to use UFS or ZFS depends on whether you want the simplicity of managing UFS, or the data protection features of ZFS.

 

[ShelLuser]

Didn't spot this thread before but oh well, better late than never.

I also have 4t zfs usb connected [off now] but I forget the name of the volume group...how do I find that?

Connect the drive(s) and issue # zpool import, this will list all available pools. After that you can simply import the pool and use a specific mountpoint. # zpool import -fR /mnt, for example. Depending on the pool you'll probably need to force the import.

But going with the ZFS > UFS... depends.

(very) Generally speaking ZFS is at its best if the machine has a lot of memory. 4+Gb of it. If you fall below that it might better to stick with UFS. This also implies that ZFS is best used on 64bit environments. Another thing is that ZFS will be much more beneficial if you use multiple disks. Although you can use one single disk and simply enjoy the virtual filesystems it won't be very redundant and ZFS thrives when it has multiple disks so it can verify your data and if needed repair it (at least spot inconsistencies amongst the disks).

 

[ralphbsz]

While I mostly agree with ShelLuser, I would temper his remarks. ZFS with reasonably small pools (a few TB) works fine with 2GB or 3GB of RAM. It works fine on a 32-bit machine. And the checksum feature helps even if you have just a single disk drive; at least you know that you're screwed when you get bit rot on the disk (as opposed to the bit rot being passed to an application and making more trouble downstream).

 

[Eric A. Borisch]

Beware that downloading torrents is almost a worst-case application for ZFS; preallocation of the file and then filling it in ~randomly with small chunks (which is what a torrent download does) works fine on some filesystems, but it goes south on ZFS; you end up with horribly fragmented / placed files. Download into one filesystem, then copy over to another (and delete the original) to avoid the problem on future accesses of the file.

Isn’t a huge problem on SSDs, but I expect to to be ugly on a USB HDD.

https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/zfs-copy-on-write-and-torrents.42094/

They talked about it in a bsdnow episode one time, as well, but I haven’t found it with a quick search.