How to install Xorg without Wayland in FreeBSD?

Spartrekus

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Hello,

I would like to avoid as much as possible wayland for the graphical (Xorg) installation.

Which possibilities might be given to exclude wayland during pkg install Xorg?

Thank you so much in advance!!

--
EDIT: wayland 1.16
FreeBSD 13. release
 

Beastie

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I would like to avoid as much as possible wayland for the graphical (Xorg) installation.

Which possibilities might be given to exclude wayland during pkg install Xorg?
Packages are built using the default port options. You can build your own from ports. Check out --disable-xwayland.

FreeBSD 13. release
There's no such a thing. 13 is -CURRENT. 12.0 is -RELEASE.
 

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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How are you managing to install wayland with Xorg in the first place? I install from ports but it's an option, not a default.
 

laurentis

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How are you managing to install wayland with Xorg in the first place? I install from ports but it's an option, not a default.

In the 'latest' repository, the wayland option has been enabled by default since November. It will be the default in the upcoming quarterly update. It's only a 1Mb package, so not a big deal.
 
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Spartrekus

Spartrekus

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In the 'latest' repository, the wayland option has been enabled by default since November. It will be the default in the upcoming quarterly update. It's only a 1Mb package, so not a big deal.

Just pkg install xorg.
(PI3b+ with url)

The Port option sounds good and excellent appropriate way.

To see Wayland, pulseaudio,... and many "similar" stuffs will be quite big problem in some years, even it will take time to clean up in some years. Today, FreeBSD works well, fast, and it is reliable.
Better to keep the Unix philosophy, because we want that FreeBSD to be million times cleaner, secured, stable, and smaller than any other operating systems. Wayland little by little could likely become more popular.

I am not so sure that FreeBSD should give Wayland like this.

Maybe the components of an operating system (for the base,...) would like to focus on :

1. To be so easy to use, configure, and as to require straightforward instruction.
2. To be easy to compile and to maintain, and, if necessary, port to new platforms
by people with relatively sufficiently good knowledge of C and UNIX.
3. To have a minimum number of files to be dealt with, for compile
and installation.
4. To have enough functionality to be useful to a large number of
people.

Good Luck
 

olli@

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Wayland is now 10 years old. It is accepted as a standard, it's quite mature and getting more and more momentum. At some point the “classic” X11 display server will fall behind. So I'm not surprised that Wayland support is now enabled by default. It's just a question of time (i.e. not if, but when). Actually I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier.

If you want to run without Wayland support (for whatever reason), you're free to build from the Ports Collection yourself with the Wayland option disabled. However, I assume that at some point in the future Wayland will become mandatory. Not in the near future, though.
 
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Spartrekus

Spartrekus

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Wayland is now 10 years old. It is accepted as a standard, it's quite mature and getting more and more momentum. At some point the “classic” X11 display server will fall behind. So I'm not surprised that Wayland support is now enabled by default. It's just a question of time (i.e. not if, but when). Actually I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier.

If you want to run without Wayland support (for whatever reason), you're free to build from the Ports Collection yourself with the Wayland option disabled. However, I assume that at some point in the future Wayland will become mandatory. Not in the near future, though.

but then it will not be freebsd, but LinuxBSD ? ;) Away from descendant of Unix.
 

olli@

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but then it will not be freebsd, but LinuxBSD ? ;) Away from descendant of Unix.

I don't understand that comment, I'm afraid. Wayland has nothing to do with BSD vs. Linux. First of all, Wayland is a display protocol (just like X11), and that's independent from operating systems.
 

Emrion

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I installed some times ago, a FreeBSD VM with xfce and firefox-63. All ran fine (12.0-RELEASE). Today, I installed sysutils/gksu with pkg. Among dependencies needed, there was wayland. After that, firefox refused to work:
ld-elf.so.1: /usr/local/lib/firefox/libxul.so: Undefined symbol "gdk_wayland_display_get_type"

I tried to compile firefox (64) without wayland support but got this error:
===> Configuring for p5-Locale-gettext-1.07
env: /usr/local/bin/perl5.26.3: No such file or directory
(I have perl 5.26.2)

The worst thing is: if I try to deinstall wayland, it wants to also remove xfce!

Don't know if it is the future or not, I just see the damage...
 
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Spartrekus

Spartrekus

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I installed some times ago, a FreeBSD VM with xfce and firefox-63. All ran fine (12.0-RELEASE). Today, I installed sysutils/gksu with pkg. Among dependencies needed, there was wayland. After that, firefox refused to work:


I tried to compile firefox (64) without wayland support but got this error:

(I have perl 5.26.2)

The worst thing is: if I try to deinstall wayland, it wants to also remove xfce!

Don't know if it is the future or not, I just see the damage...

That's good. Good example that Wayland will influence on X/Xorg/X11.

Really, *BSD should go to X environment which is like BASE (without LINUX!).
 
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shkhln

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I installed some times ago, a FreeBSD VM with xfce and firefox-63. All ran fine (12.0-RELEASE). Today, I installed sysutils/gksu with pkg. Among dependencies needed, there was wayland. After that, firefox refused to work:

Pkg is a very flaky tool and doesn't handle partial updates well, pkg upgrade should fix dependency mismatch.

Wayland will kill X11.

Good riddance. (Also, X11 doesn't come from original UNIX.)
 

Emrion

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Pkg is a very flaky tool and doesn't handle partial updates well, pkg upgrade should fix dependency mismatch.

I have no doubt that pkg isn't perfect but it works almost always. I use it because the ports system is too slow on a VM (and to tell the truth, also on a real machine). But, as you can see, ports aren't perfect as well.

And concerning pkg upgrade, I'd already tried. I have the last version of firefox from the pkg point of view.
 

shkhln

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And concerning pkg upgrade, I'd already tried. I have the last version of firefox from the pkg point of view.

No, you have successfully upgraded Firefox, but some of its dependencies are stale. FWIW, I recently upgraded my desktop from 11.2 to 12.0, which required me running pkg upgrade and pkg upgrade -f about a dozen times. Try a bit harder.
 

Emrion

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The funny thing is that I have a similar VM with xfce, gksu of the same version and firefox 64 (I also tried to install firefox 64 with pkg but I get the same error about wayland). The difference is this VM do not have wayland installed and there is no problem.

This last VM comes from 11.1 -> 11.2 -> 12.0 (and there are many programs installed).
The VM with the "wayland issue" comes from 11.2 -> 12.0 (with few software installed).

On the first, I installed gksu on the 11.1 version. On the second, It was on the 12.0. Useless to say that I have run pkg upgrade -f when I updated to 12.0. I don't recall exactly but I think I have deleted and reinstalled some pkg that didn't work after that or upgraded maybe.

So the next time I see wayland as dependency, I'll simply do not install the program that need it.
 
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Spartrekus

Spartrekus

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The funny thing is that I have a similar VM with xfce, gksu of the same version and firefox 64 (I also tried to install firefox 64 with pkg but I get the same error about wayland). The difference is this VM do not have wayland installed and there is no problem.

This last VM comes from 11.1 -> 11.2 -> 12.0 (and there are many programs installed).
The VM with the "wayland issue" comes from 11.2 -> 12.0 (with few software installed).

On the first, I installed gksu on the 11.1 version. On the second, It was on the 12.0. Useless to say that I have run pkg upgrade -f when I updated to 12.0. I don't recall exactly but I think I have deleted and reinstalled some pkg that didn't work after that or upgraded maybe.

So the next time I see wayland as dependency, I'll simply do not install the program that need it.

More interestingly, it seems that running wayland makes firefox slower:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1493493 (*inux).
Who really knows why Redhat, Gnome, Chromium, ... push in that direction.
 

shkhln

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So the next time I see wayland as dependency, I'll simply do not install the program that need it.

Don't be ridiculous. This a basic dependency resolution problem. If you don't know how to deal with them, they are going to bite you over and over and over again.

Code:
% grep gdk_wayland_display_get_type -r /usr/local/lib/*
Binary file /usr/local/lib/firefox/gtk2/libmozgtk.so matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/firefox/libxul.so matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libgdk-3.so matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libgdk-3.so.0 matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libgdk-3.so.0.2200.30 matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libgeany.so matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libgeany.so.0 matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libgeany.so.0.0.0 matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libgtk-3.so matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libgtk-3.so.0 matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libgtk-3.so.0.2200.30 matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libwebkit2gtk-4.0.so matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libwebkit2gtk-4.0.so.37 matches
Binary file /usr/local/lib/libwebkit2gtk-4.0.so.37.33.6 matches
% readelf -s /usr/local/lib/libgdk-3.so | grep gdk_wayland_display_get_type
  1074: 00000000000d8410   127 FUNC    GLOBAL DEFAULT   13 gdk_wayland_display_get_type
% pkg which /usr/local/lib/libgdk-3.so
/usr/local/lib/libgdk-3.so was installed by package gtk3-3.22.30_4

Have you tried reinstalling gtk3 package? You can also try deleting it from package cache ( sudo rm /var/cache/pkg/gtk3-*) if you need to force pkg to redownload it.
 

Emrion

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You were almost right. I found the solution here: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/firefox-and-thunderbird-does-not-start.68332/

# pkg install gtk3-3.22.30_4

Which made gtk3 to upgrade as the initial version was gtk3-3.22.30_1.

Anyway, as ridiculous as I seem for you, I will stay away from wayland as long as possible concerning my others FreeBSD machines. They work well without. I don't like to waste a part of my weekend for such a thing of no sense and no importance.
 

olli@

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Really, *BSD should go to X environment which is like BASE (without LINUX!).
No, the old X protocol is going to die, sooner or later (hopefully sooner). It is 35 years old and was designed at a time when people didn't think much about security issues. Wayland fixes that and a bunch of other problems.

And please stop abusing this thread for your “BSD vs Linux” mission. As already stated, Wayland is an OS-independent display protocol.
 
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Spartrekus

Spartrekus

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"X protocol is old and going to die ": it is your opinion. We all respect.
 

olli@

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"X protocol is old and going to die ": it is your opinion. We all respect.
Actually, it's not just my opinion.
Most of the X developers are working on Wayland, while X11 is only in “maintenance mode”, but not developed anymore. In an article a few years ago, one of the leading developers (Keith Packard) said that he views Wayland as “X13” (X12 already exists, but is meaningless). It's pretty clear that Wayland is the future.
 

felselva

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Been working on Wayland clients for a while, and as much I have my nitpicks with the API of Wayland, it's much better than X, in many many ways. X will really die, the question is when. End-users might decide to keep using X for longer, but Wayland is looking more attractive to devs.
 
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Spartrekus

Spartrekus

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Been working on Wayland clients for a while, and as much I have my nitpicks with the API of Wayland, it's much better than X, in many many ways. X will really die, the question is when. End-users might decide to keep using X for longer, but Wayland is looking more attractive to devs.

Development is fine, but X should not die for great number of end users (aka. customer).

Let's positively smile!
Yoddler_227_Large.jpeg
 

olli@

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Development is fine, but X should not die for great number of end users (aka. customer).
Well, end users will happily switch to something that is better.

For the very same reason, most users have switched from telnet to ssh.
 
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Spartrekus

Spartrekus

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I am not so sure that we can apply comparison between telnet/ssh and X/Wayland.

Wayland brings things, but take also other advantages of X.
https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_8

What about raspberry pi?

We’re still working to improve performance and memory consumption, and don’t expect to be able to replace X11 as our default desktop environment until later in the year, but we will be including a technology preview in our next Raspbian release. Until then, this post on Collabora’s website gives some more background.
Ref. https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/wayland-preview/

More interestingly, one of the GNOME founders, who founded the license war between the Linux desktops KDE and GNOME with this project, works since then at Microsoft. At Wayland we can imagine something similar. In the end it will certainly not benefit the Unix or Linux users.
 
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