Solved Helping a Linux distro hopping to delete Linux and using FreeBSD. I completely confuse about Linux and interesting in FreeBSD

temmie2511

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I'm sorry if I ask some kind of stupid question here but please trust me I'm not an anti-FreeBSD user otherwise I really like FreeBSD since the day I join this forum. I read the wiki a little, play with FreeBSD a while in spite of FreeBSD not support my wireless hardware but that is okay I will buy a new one to use this Operator System. So my questions right now after use Linux for 3 years is a little weird but I hope I find right place to ask because in Linux users don't know or never tell me anything or they just curse me (defininately will happen in Vietnam).
  1. Linux has systemd. FreeBSD has RC. So what is the benefits to use RC instead of systemd. Or just tell me how systemd work and about RC init I will discover it later.
  2. Linux seem have many people short-tempered, arrogant at every where, they just come and say "bla bla, hoo hoo" make me feel disappointed about myself. Does those people have in BSD too? I hope it less.
  3. Is FreeBSD great for learn everything in computer and networking?
  4. I know FreeBSD and Linux is a diferrent Operator System. Can someone tell me a professional FreeBSD users when they come back to Linux will they learn Linux and other Operator Systems faster than professional Linux users learn FreeBSD and other Operator Systems.
  5. Is FreeBSD great for children because I'm actually a children.
 

Cthulhux

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Linux seem have many people short-tempered, arrogant at every where, they just come and say "bla bla, hoo hoo" make me feel disappointed about myself. Does those people have in BSD too?

Yup, like me. Hi.
 

SirDice

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  1. The venerable rc(8) system is a bunch of scripts that ties existing things together. Systemd has become a monstrosity that tries to do everything on its own.
  2. Linux users and developers are human. FreeBSD users and developers are humans too. Humans can be short-tempered and arrogant. You can find those people everywhere.
  3. Definitely. You get lots of tools and documentation for just about everything. Understand the basic principles and you can apply that knowledge everywhere.
  4. On FreeBSD you are more or less forced to configure whatever it is you want to run. On Linux a lot of things install "out-of-the-box" something that immediately works. Being forced to configure means you are forced to figure out how and why things work. Same as point #3, you can apply that knowledge everywhere.
  5. I don't believe there's an age range or limit. I learned to program on a C-64 when I was 12, that was 37 years ago. I know some of our forum users are well into their 70s.
 

Zirias

Son of Beastie

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Linux has systemd. FreeBSD has RC. So what is the benefits to use RC instead of systemd. Or just tell me how systemd work and about RC init I will discover it later.
The main difference is, with some RC system based in BSD init, you might have a chance to understand what's going on soon. With systemd, not so much.
Linux seem have many people short-tempered, arrogant at every where, they just come and say "bla bla, hoo hoo" make me feel disappointed about myself. Does those people have in BSD too? I hope it less.
Sure, FreeBSD users are the nicest guys ever. Seriously, if you experience that a lot, you might want to read e.g. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Is FreeBSD great for learn everything in computer and networking?
Everything? No. Like any other operating system.
I know FreeBSD and Linux is a diferrent Operator System. Can someone tell me a professional FreeBSD users when they come back to Linux will they learn Linux and other Operator Systems faster than professional Linux users learn FreeBSD and other Operator Systems.
You want a guess here? :eek:
Is FreeBSD great for children because I'm actually a children.
Give a definition what's "great for children", please ....
 
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temmie2511

temmie2511

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The venerable rc(8) system is a bunch of scripts that ties existing things together. Systemd has become a monstrosity that tries to do everything on its own.
The main difference is, with some RC system based in BSD init, you might have a chance to understand what's going on soon. With systemd, not so much.
So I guess RC is simple and clearly to understand than systemd.
Linux users and developers are human. FreeBSD users and developers are humans too. Humans can be short-tempered and arrogant. You can find those people everywhere.
So I guess I am a human too.... Well, it seems like we can't be perfect all and children like me should learn to accept things.
I definitely will read it. Absolute.

You want a guess here?
Maybe. Why not? If not, I'll make myself a white mouse to experiment on me.

Definitely. You get lots of tools and documentation for just about everything. Understand the basic principles and you can apply that knowledge everywhere.
On FreeBSD you are more or less forced to configure whatever it is you want to run. On Linux a lot of things install "out-of-the-box" something that immediately works. Being forced to configure means you are forced to figure out how and why things work. Same as point #3, you can apply that knowledge everywhere.
So that is the way it was. COOL.

Give a definition what's "great for children", please ....
Well, seem I can't explain after all
 

stratacast1

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Hi, welcome! I'm assuming you're using FreeBSD on your laptop for desktop use based on your scenario, so I'll target these questions with that in mind.

Linux has systemd. FreeBSD has RC. So what is the benefits to use RC instead of systemd. Or just tell me how systemd work and about RC init I will discover it later.
For your daily use? This will not make a big difference. Except that if you want to see what you have going on you can just look at your `/etc/rc.conf` file. I also thing using `service -e` is a bit better than `systemctl | grep running` if you want to list your running services. I think it's also easier to modify service parameters and optional flags if you ever have a need for that. You can edit them in the `rc.conf` file instead of hunting down the systemd unit file and hope your changes don't get overwritten by an update. I will also have weird shutdown and restart issues with systemd sometimes where it will not shutdown/restart for 90 seconds while something tries to stop and doesn't. FreeBSD has always done this job cleanly for me. Also systemd has taken over too much. You may not care on a desktop, but on a server it will drive you insane. Especially with DNS.

Linux seem have many people short-tempered, arrogant at every where, they just come and say "bla bla, hoo hoo" make me feel disappointed about myself. Does those people have in BSD too? I hope it less.

People are people, sadly you will run into them everywhere. That said, the only time I have come across "short tempered" people here is when I stirred the pot myself and it was really my fault. That said that said, I have loved the FreeBSD community the most. You must have run into Debian people ;) I've been chewed out by Debian people a lot for asking questions on their forum. Ubuntu? I never got an answer for my questions. The Fedora and Kubuntu people are great in my experience. They have a great community.

Is FreeBSD great for learn everything in computer and networking?

I started learning the *NIX world with Linux. I used to be a huge proponent of Linux first and tackle the BSDs later if you want to, but figured them irrelevant. After having used FreeBSD almost 3 years now myself, I am a huge advocate for FreeBSD first. I have learned more about operating systems, management, and even Linux systems learning FreeBSD. Why? The Linux distros hide stuff from you. They do a lot of heavy lifting for you and their tools are heavily fragmented. I manage around 50 Ubuntu servers for my job and I have really come to understand them more by learning FreeBSD because FreeBSD gives you the raw packages from their maintainers and I've had to understand more how my OS works to use FreeBSD. I have found some of the most proficient Linux users I know actually run FreeBSD on their own stuff and prefer FreeBSD.

I know FreeBSD and Linux is a diferrent Operator System. Can someone tell me a professional FreeBSD users when they come back to Linux will they learn Linux and other Operator Systems faster than professional Linux users learn FreeBSD and other Operator Systems.
I guess I addressed this question in number 3...the thing to know is that you will be forced to know more about software and your OS using FreeBSD, but you will still have to go back to the Linux world and apply that knowledge there and learn the Linux way. But I found you will understand it better and what's going on after learning how things work in FreeBSD.

Is FreeBSD great for children because I'm actually a children.

I think both Linux and FreeBSD are great for children. Before a trip I took to Africa and the coronavirus, I was teaching my 11 year old cousin computer operating systems on FreeBSD. We have had a lot of fun with it and he has understood it well. I will say there are more kid focused programs available on Linux though.
 

stratacast1

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Nope. Probably 5,000 KVM/Xen guests and 5,000 hypervisors and other individual physical servers such as Oracle, Hadoop, Tibco JMS, Coherence, etc. Another team has thousands of Java instances running in containers on some of those individual physical servers.

I say CentOS and most are, but there are also some Redhat servers under maintenance support contracts for a mission critical messaging app, but they are supposed to be migrating off. And there are still some apps running on Redhat 4 and 5. But CentOS are on 6 and 7. Getting CentOS 8 probably later this year to add to the mix. Otherwise we are self supporting without OS support contracts.
This makes me glad I don't work for a big company :) or a company with big needs even. Most our servers are bare metal and all over the world
 

stratacast1

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It's burning me out. Always more and more work and the number of Unix admins to manage everything can be counted on one hand. Actually not burning out, I am burned out.
I hear you, I feel the same way. I'm the sole sysadmin, though my boss and I will deal with the major fires together. So my job is 24/5 and the other 2 days are if the fire is big enough, I hop in to help. We have lots of redundancy but there are some critical points that I wish would be addressed with some changes. Issues that sometimes keep me up at night waiting for it to happen.
 

stratacast1

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We are 4 who rotate on call 1 week at a time and 1 week secondary on call. So secondary, then primary, 2 weeks off, then back on. 13 years working there and when I started there were 300 servers and 8 admins. Now 10,000 servers and 4 admins.
That's awful. I'd kill for 2 weeks with no on-call though. I don't even sleep well at night anymore. Any phone noise wakes me up, any noise wakes me up, and when people have the same ringtones I have for alerts my heart rate jumps up when they go off.
 
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temmie2511

temmie2511

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People are people, sadly you will run into them everywhere. That said, the only time I have come across "short tempered" people here is when I stirred the pot myself and it was really my fault. That said that said, I have loved the FreeBSD community the most. You must have run into Debian people ;) I've been chewed out by Debian people a lot for asking questions on their forum. Ubuntu?

Yeah, but it should include Arch, Gentoo, Debian, Ubuntu users (who are fanboys of Linux distributions). They very weird...................... Who know? I guess the right thing I could do is leaving those groups so not to wasting time and join a new healthy groups. Hey, I just found my new home, now my life is become more easy, don't know that is a power from FreeBSD or somewhere but seem it solve all my problem I need. Everything is great. Now I can decide what is my future patch too. I guess I should close the topic. Thanks everyone, you guys are the best. :) Well, it is time to grow up the young child soul with FreeBSD now.
 

Menelkir

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Yeah, but it should include Arch, Gentoo, Debian, Ubuntu users (who are fanboys of Linux distributions). They very weird...................... Who know? I guess the right thing I could do is leaving those groups so not to wasting time and join a new healthy groups. Hey, I just found my new home, now my life is become more easy, don't know that is a power from FreeBSD or somewhere but seem it solve all my problem I need. Everything is great. Now I can decide what is my future patch too. I guess I should close the topic. Thanks everyone, you guys are the best. :) Well, it is time to grow up the young child soul with FreeBSD now.

Some distributions are more magnets of elitism than others, I can name every single one of them, but I'll keep it to myself. But yes, elitism can and will happens anywhere. The right thing to do is just evade the places that this occurs more often or choose the ones that doesn't occurs at all (if you want to stick in that specific software). For example, in irc there's some channels that are terrible even for a regular support, so I usually prefer sticking to wikis and documentations instead of having to deal with this kind of people.
But if you wanna know, the places that have less elitism are FreeBSD and Gentoo. Of course, doesn't mean that an arrogant elitist couldn't appears anywhere in the timeline. :)
 

stratacast1

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Yeah, but it should include Arch, Gentoo, Debian, Ubuntu users (who are fanboys of Linux distributions). They very weird...................... Who know? I guess the right thing I could do is leaving those groups so not to wasting time and join a new healthy groups. Hey, I just found my new home, now my life is become more easy, don't know that is a power from FreeBSD or somewhere but seem it solve all my problem I need. Everything is great. Now I can decide what is my future patch too. I guess I should close the topic. Thanks everyone, you guys are the best. :) Well, it is time to grow up the young child soul with FreeBSD now.

I find you have to walk away from the more mainstream Linux distros to get a good community. Like menelkir said, there's a lot of elitism in some of those communities. I think it's fine and dandy to have a philosophy about software, but some people let that get in the way with how they interact with others that are different. BSD and some of the more purist Linux communities are normally full of great people that have an interest in the project and don't let an ideology consume them but rather direct their decisions. I think FreeBSD is probably the most pleasant OS I've used to date. I can trust my data is safe and that my services are going to continue to run as long as I do the upkeep :)
 

SlySven

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Also Devuan explicitly doesn't have `systemd` - they're a bunch of Debian people who forked off specifically NOT to have to fight the many headed-hydra that is trying to take over the GNU/Linux OS - and to kill it you have to take off all its heads...

... also, it may be a personal thing, but I think when I run FreeBSD on the same hardware (I triple boot with Debian{sysV init}, and rarely Windoze 10) I think it seems more snappy and responsive - I think there are less background processes running to consume those CPU cycles.
 

Alain De Vos

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I don't think the init system is that important as long as you can manipulate it easily to your personal needs.
 

Zirias

Son of Beastie

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I don't think the init system is that important as long as you can manipulate it easily to your personal needs.
Yes. My personal experience with systemd was trying to run multiple instances of the same service. It worked, finally, but "easily" doesn't describe it ;)
 

Sevendogsbsd

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Not to derail the thread into a systemd thread but in all reality, I have only had a few issues with it: namely the infamous 90 second wait for something to die before the system will shutdown. I have never had any other issues with it but I prefer simpler init systems, or ones that do not try to do everything + the kitchen sink...

It works, sure, and maybe the level of complexity it adds is not a big deal but other systems not using it work just fine so not sure the point of systemd: complexity for the sake of complexity? I've said too much...
 

Zirias

Son of Beastie

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do everything + the kitchen sink...
wouldn't complain too much about the latter though ;)
[systemd] in all reality, I have only had a few issues with it
Well, did you ever have the need to run multiple instances of the same service? I found this very cumbersome, although I succeeded in the end -- but maybe I have the wrong mindset/expectations here ;) Problem is, now that I have it working, I already forgot *how* it works, so I just hope it'll never break -- ahem.

Really, BSD init with mewburn RC scripting rocks (and if FreeBSD ever decides to introduce a more modern replacement, I hope it's still as simple, clean, well-structured and transparent ... but I have a lot of trust in FreeBSD here).
 

Sevendogsbsd

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I am not a sysadmin so am only an end user of both FreeBSD and Linux. Anymore, only FreeBSD. I have never had to run multiple instances of services using systemd. I do have a buddy that is a long time Linux sysadmin and he did mention systemd is better suited to end users and is cumbersome for sysadmins.

I just love the sheer simplicity of FreeBSD: it is so clean and simple to me. No muss, no fuss. People say it's difficult but I disagree: the install is one of fastest and easiest OS installs I have encountered in my 20 years of open source usage.

EDIT: I have to caveat that with the fact I am installing on a home built PC or my old HP z800 which I no longer have, never a laptop. The only laptop I use is this MacBook Pro...
 
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